using FSDS, changing viewports

[bond672]

dear all,
i am trying to follow the tutorial for the cessna 185, just wondering is there a way to change the default viewport from back to front? or am i stuck with back view only?
regards
Simon

 

[Nater]

In FSDS you are unfortunately stuck with the back view...

 

[bond672]

oh! in the tutorial http://www.abacuspub.com/ds/tutorial/FSDSTutorial1.htm
it showed a front view, maybe it was an older version of the program.
oh well, thanks anyway
regards
Simon

 

[PropTrash]

“maybe it was an older version of the program.”

FSDS Version 1 Help file, Overview, "The Screen":

FSDS Versions 2 through 3.5 Help file, Overview, "The Screen":

Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes
(Turn and face the strain)

 

[bond672]

oh well, looks like i will just have to live with it! next mission is to figure out boolean cuts and cockpit windows!
regards Simon

 

[Au-MaV]

Hi
Just flip your front view bmp/image horizontally and ignore the back view tag
Dont use the boolean tool unless your prepared to spend hrs cleaning up the mess
Wozza

 

[PropTrash]

“next mission is to figure out boolean cuts and cockpit windows!”

I tried the Boolean op when it came out with FSDS 3, and was dismayed at the results. So I went back to cutting “by hand” so to speak; joining the template to the part to be cut, then if it was a flat plane, selecting an adjacent vertex of the original part, reading the point properties, and transferring the X, Y, or Z positions to the template vertices.

That cuts perfect holes after you delete the overlapping poly(s) and rebuild new ones, but cutting holes on curved, and especially compound curved surfaces still required tedious rough positioning of the template vertices, and then many trips to the Transform/Translate menu to get the job done.

But then it occurred to me that the FSDS Boolean operation leaves several parts, one of which makes a perfect template for curves:

But it has extra, weirdly positioned vertices, so you need to select the original vertices, and rebuild the polys:

]


That goes fast if you only build one quarter of the circle, then flip a copy of it horizontally, join and weld, then copy and paste it, flip vertically, then join both halves and snap to scale to weld the vertices. I weld after each join because it’s easier for me to keep track of the points to be welded.

Join the part and template, delete the overlapping polys, and then rebuild them. Once again, I only created 4 polys, representing one quarter of the area involved, then flipped a copy horizontal and joined both, welded vertices, then copy and paste, flip vertically, then join and weld once again

Only took about 3 minutes start to finish, and the result is quite good:

This is the Boolean cut sphere:

Notice the shadowing, and the fact that it has more than twice as many polygons, and 59 more vertices than the part cut by hand.

 

[PropTrash]

“This should eliminate the problem with the boolean op from retriangulating the entire sphere object.”

It’s not just the extra complexity added to the geometry Bill, it’s the fact that it does a terrible job of cutting a hole. The point is, instead of, as Wozza put it: “spend(ing) hrs cleaning up the mess”; you make use of something the FSDS Boolean does do well, which is positioning the vertices of the template. It interpolates those positions quite well, and if you pick up the original vertices out of the mess it makes of the template, then you can rebuild a new template from those, and cut a near perfect hole.

Template before:

And here’s the template after rebuilding:

Hole cut by Boolean. I wouldn’t want this mess in my mesh:

Hole cut by hand:

 

[PropTrash]

“Since the geometry of the entire sphere changed after your boolean operation, apparently you didn't select and detach the four polys in which to cut the hole first.”

Okay, one more time, since you’re having trouble grasping the concept.

Here’s the 4 polygons in question, detached from the sphere per your request:

Same 4 polygons after Boolean:

Notice the extra vertices.

Here’s the same 4 polys cut by hand using a rebuilt template:

Here’s the Boolean cut hole:

And the hole cut by hand:

See the difference? As I wrote earlier, it’s not so much about the added complexity, as it’s about the freaking messed up hole the Boolean cut makes, and how you can avoid it quickly and easily. Detaching polys to save the rest of the sphere is a pointless exercise because FSDS saves the original parts – including the uncut sphere – and the Boolean cut in the detached polys is a mess, unfit for use. But you can grab the “template”, which is the doughnut hole left over from the cut, pick out and select, in this example, the ORIGINAL 16 vertices, rebuild the polygons from those, detach them and use them to cut a proper hole in the original sphere. The vertices are nearly perfectly positioned, much better than you can achieve manually.

You really need to have some experience cutting holes with FSDS to appreciate this.

“Honestly, even in GMax, boolean ops are frequently nasty, even using the select/detach then bool method. A lot of stray, extraneous vertices are created. The only real advantage that doing a select/detach for the polys you wish to work with is that it isolates the rest of the object's geometry from being trashed as well...”

I’ve been using Gmax for as long as you have Bill, and FSDS before that. I’m well aware of the mess that can result from a Boolean op in Gmax. But this thread isn’t about Gmax, or 3ds Max, it’s about FSDS. Simon, the guy who started this topic, said he was on a mission to “figure out Boolean cuts”, then Wozza advised that he not use the Boolean because he would need to spend “hrs cleaning up the mess”.

My intention was not to disparage FSDS (it’s a great modeling program) for it’s poor performance when cutting holes, but to show a way that he can use a part of that operation to cut a better hole, a nearly perfect hole, and pretty darn fast too; and to demonstrate that the Boolean op in FSDS does have it’s uses – it provides a perfect template if you’re willing to rebuild it from the original vertices. That template can be used to cut a near perfect hole with a little manual labor, and it’s faster and easier than cleaning up after a Boolean, or cutting the hole with a template positioned manually.

I hope I explained it well enough for Simon to follow; but if you still don’t see the process for it’s elegant simplicity, and superior results, then I’ll tirelessly continue to elaborate.

 

[n4gix]

Okay, one more time, since you’re having trouble grasping the concept.

I have had absolutely no trouble "grasping the concept" of what you have been explaining and illustrating. It was both lucid and cogent.

Since I've never actually used FSDS, even though it was given to me so I could provide some advice and assistance to Louis while he was coding it, I was simply trying to find out if some of the "tricks and work-arounds" I've found useful in GMax could be used in FSDS as well.

Apparently not.

I do not understand the condecending and patronizing attitude you've chosen to use in your reply, but I suppose it's just possible that you've interpreted my questions and/or suggestions the same way.

If I've come across that way, I do sincerely apologize.

That said, I bid you adieu.

 

[PropTrash]

"I do not understand the condecending and patronizing attitude you've chosen to use in your reply, but I suppose it's just possible that you've interpreted my questions and/or suggestions the same way"

Well Bill, I do understand that you've set yourself up as a sort of éminence grise of Flightsim Modeling. To explain my "condecending (sic) and patronizing attitude", let me first say that I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday; I've been modeling for MSFS for longer than you have, on multiple platforms (FSDS 1-3.5, Gmax, Max 7), and I thought I'd share what I believe is a great tip for cutting holes in parts using FSDS. (By the way, I have another, related tip for cutting holes in Gmax, but I'll let you discover that one on your own ).

Anyway, it was more than a little annoying that you couldn't take that tip at face value, instead you had to try to shoot holes in it, as if in 11 years I hadn't explored at least some of the options, and you forced me to explain it over and over. Each of those explanations required the use of Internet Explorer to negotiate a truce with Photobucket - and Internet Explorer makes me grumpy.

You began your participation in this topic by replying to Simon "I don't use FSDS, but it's obvious from the tutorial that you can display any viewport you wish: Left, Right, Front, Back, Bottom or Top. Like Max and GMax, you can also can have four different views visible at any given time."; but this is dead wrong and not obvious at all. You then querulously inquired whether he had "actually read the FSDS Help files?"; but those files are not particularly helpful to a new guy, they are a confusing mess of a decades worth of information on different versions. I don't blame Simon for not immediately grasping the program and all of it's features at first glance, or for being confused by an old tutorial that used a different version of FSDS, and you shouldn't either.

In summary, your contributions to this topic have been unnecessary and disruptive, and while I admit and appreciate your contributions over the past decade to creating addon content for MSFS, you don't know everything - no one does - and learning to recognize that is an important part of being well balanced and human.

"If I've come across that way, I do sincerely apologize."

No apology is necessary Bill. You're just being, well, yourself....

"That said, I bid you adieu."

No wait! I bid you adieu, or goodbye...catch you later...no darn it, you beat me to it. Upstaged on the hurt and angry exit....

I began posting here because I was reading you and Bill Ortis going on about the 65K limit as if it really were a limit, and this was several years after Luka had posted a solution for it. Now I'll admit Luka didn't elaborate much on what he knew (and he knows a lot), it required some experimentation and hard work to figure out all the details, but in the course of that process I not only figured out how to make it work, but I discovered some things that perhaps even Luka didn't know, or maybe he just forgot to mention.

I stuck around to help Bill O. get that going, which he has, and I wish him all the luck in the world with it. I'm not too keen on forum participation, as it takes time away from doing other things, and apparently I've worn out my welcome here. So for the sake of my sanity and yours, mostly mine I suspect, I'll bug off to other, warmer, and happier climes - and not with hurt feelings (adieu lol), but with a profound sense of relief.

Happy trails to you and the rest of the gang here at FSDeveloper!

Douglas K

 

[n4gix]

Happy trails to you and the rest of the gang here at FSDeveloper!

I note that a sincere apology is apparently not acceptable. Worse, you'll deprive other's here of your knowledge and experience to "punish me for being myself." Pity, I'd thought of you as the better man.

You are quite correct that I had no business sticking my oar in the water. I've since removed my "unnecessary and disruptive" posts.