What the best way to remove rocky/photogrametry/monolith trees

[vbazillio]

Hi all!
What is your best advice to remove this rocky, photogrametric generated trees WITHOUT removing the photogrametry volume?

Here's an example of this monolith trees I want to remove, but I want to keep the buildings:

I can remove the monolith with a Polygon and checking Terraforming BUT this remove all in the polygon, including the photogrametric buildings:

Is there another MSFS object I can add to remove only the monolith trees?
Thanks for your help

 

[mamu]

Nope, there is no way any tool can recognize between houses or trees or any other crap in photogrammetry, it is just a random bunch of triangles

Btw, to remove photogrammetry you are supposed to use a polygon/building/TIN (stand for triangle irregular network, or photogrammetry), the terraforming is kind of a overkill, but it works, so whatever

At least now you have a clean virgin area to draw onto

A polygon/vegetation should give you back proper trees and

About the buildings, you can bulk add them via e.g. blender-osm + buildify addon

Inviato dal mio Mi 9 Lite utilizzando Tapatalk

 

[=rk=]

I like how well the overpass is reproduced, however and almost effortless.

 

[GaryGB]

I had success with a MSFS exclude Polygon clipping VERY precisely, only a portion of (1) building in the location where Arno used to live.

[EDITED]

When I get a chance, I'll make a demo of the test project area to verify my results.

Here is a screen-shot of the results (Polygon = Exclude TIN only):

It is a good thing that Arno moved before the roof collapsed.


BTW: MSFS SDK allows us to make our own photogrammetry with source data from LiDAR via a GIS application ...like that in MSFS seen above.


Here is what Google Earth does with NEW enhanced LiDAR data processing to populate their 3D world view:
< Oh, come on, Microsoft ...we believe you can do even better than this >

Google Earth's OLD legacy object mode (originally derived via Sketchup with satellite / street view imagery etc. ...years ago):

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/downloads/BuildYourHouseForFSUsingSketchup.pdf

FYI: Install Google Earth Desktop Edition, then download / extract / double-click the *.KMZ attached in a ZIP below to compare Google's work to that of MSFS.

https://www.google.com/earth/versions/download-thank-you/?usagestats=1


I had planned to test replacing MSFS default 3D photogrammetry in the area (...most folks would probably just leave it in place).

Suffice it to say that IIRC, I was able to NOT exclude all local photogrammetry ...but just a specific "monolith" chunk of the 'TIN'.

So, in the mean time, try different exclude settings available in the properties for a Polygon in DevMode GUI.

If one uses a lower MSFS DevMode screen resolution, the GUI updates fairly quickly (almost "real time") ...to show impact of various exclude options.

[END_EDIT]

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

I like how well the overpass is reproduced, however and almost effortless.

The road enhancements make it seem Asobo plans on improving the driving experience in MSFS and/or making a stand-alone driving sim ...even if it means overlooking the fact that in a flight simulator, the priority is making airports- not roads- ..."As Real As It Gets".


But maybe Asobo's old habits die hard ?


Hello... "FUEL- 2" ?

Fuel (video game) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://gamesystemrequirements.com/game/fuel

FUEL - Demo file

Demo for the racing game, FUEL.

www.moddb.com

Demo for the racing game, FUEL.

PS: A down side to Asobo's 'enforced' road infrastructure changes is impact on airport areas that "should" reflect the terrain IRL:

Terrain mesh issue

Used the MSFS Toolkit to create a mesh for an airport I'm working on. Overall it looks good, but there are some jagged edges showing up in some areas. These don't show up in the original data, nor in the heightmaps that generate the terrain in the sim. Any suggestions?

www.fsdeveloper.com

But, I must admit, I'd love to see "ports" of FUEL vehicles to MSFS so I can rampage over the landscape.

"My copilot is ...a Nitro cylinder".

GaryGB

 

[rhumbaflappy]

It always helps to give a latitude-longitude. or attach a zipped project example. Otherwise you get just a guess... with some guesses better than others.

 

[vbazillio]

It always helps to give a latitude-longitude. or attach a zipped project example. Otherwise you get just a guess... with some guesses better than others.

Was that for me? Anyway : True. Here, the initial question is not related to a specific place which required to share a lat/lon. It's a generic question targeting all scenery editor users : "How do you manage or remove these monolith trees without deleting the photogrammetry buildings". And I got a valuable reply 3 hours

 

[vbazillio]

Btw, to remove photogrammetry you are supposed to use a polygon/building/TIN (stand for triangle irregular network, or photogrammetry), the terraforming is kind of a overkill, but it works, so whatever

So True! I totally skip this option. And more, thanks for pointing me in that direction, I may have found a workaround : "Exclude TIN" + "Force Buildings on TIN" will remove the monolith and add autogen buildings.

1. The default situation with photogrametics buildings and (monolith) tree:

2. Exclude TIN remove all... TIN and "reveal" autogen trees:

3. Exclude TIN + Force buildings on TIN could be a workaround, better than nothing (or keeping the ulgy monolith)

Thanks for the inspiration!

 

[mamu]

Great! And totally forgot that also default autogen building can be recovered other than than the trees (and that they are mostly better than photogrammetry ones!)

Inviato dal mio Mi 9 Lite utilizzando Tapatalk

 

[=Hollywood=]

BTW: MSFS SDK allows us to make our own photogrammetry with source data from LiDAR via a GIS application ...like that in MSFS seen above.

Man, you spend 2 years away due to work and come back to discover this gem, now I need to search through the SDK to find out how

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Dean:

IMHO, Arno's brilliant FS utilities MCX and ScenProc are needed now for MSFS enhancement as much- or more- than for FS2Kx.


I believe MCX and ScenProc have the potential to become a more useful front end GUI for MSFS SDK terrain (not 'airport') tools.

I would love to see Arno add a (3D) G-Poly Wizard and Sloped Flatten option for MSFS output in MCX.

Flattens from 3D objects | SceneryDesign.org

With a bit of further modification, ScenProc IMHO, could output Autogen Tree annotation to form Biomes that look more like IRL.

And with a bit of further modification, ScenProc IMHO, could output custom photogrammetry using Lidar input.


IIUC, ScenProc pattern recognition could also derive custom 3D buildings and trees from LiDAR and place them in MSFS.


Global Mapper can do the latter, and as results vary with source data, IMHO, more processing is need to clean derived 3D models.

Creating 3D Buildings from Lidar Data in Global Mapper

This blog describes two feature extraction methods for generating 3D buildings in vector format from lidar and other point cloud datasets usig Global Mapper.

www.bluemarblegeo.com

GaryGB

 

[=Hollywood=]

Hi Dean:

IMHO, Arno's brilliant FS utilities MCX and ScenProc are needed now for MSFS enhancement as much- or more- than for FS2Kx.


I believe MCX and ScenProc have the potential to become a more useful front end GUI for MSFS SDK terrain (not 'airport') tools.

I would love to see Arno add a G-Poly Wizard and Sloped Flatten option for MSFS output in MCX.


With a bit of further modification, ScenProc IMHO, could output Autogen Tree annotation to form Biomes that look more like IRL.

And with a bit of further modification, ScenProc IMHO, could output custom photogrammetry using Lidar input.


IIUC, ScenProc pattern recognition could also derive custom 3D buildings and trees from LiDAR and place them in MSFS.


Global Mapper can do this, and as results vary with source data, IMHO, more processing is need to clean derived 3D models.

GaryGB

I guess it's time to upgrade my version of Global Mapper. The big question is what format the Bing TIN data is in and is there a way we can build our own TIN data to replace the Bing photogrammetry layers.

I wonder if the author of Google Earth Decoder knows that stuff, or if it's under a patent.

On a side note I need to get up to speed on converting DEM data for MSFS, just found awesome new datasets I've been dreaming of for 20 years!

 

[GaryGB]

Sean Isom has posted info on some of this since the release of MSFS:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/bgldec-a-resample-bgl-and-cgl-decompressor.433789/

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...eneration-custom-dem-works.450379/post-883251

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/high-level-overview-of-msfs2020-tech.448406/post-869578


PS: Pete Beeby has posted info on distinctions between G-Polys and MSFS' Projected Mesh as, IIUC, its version of FS' "RenderToTexture".

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/hires-ground-textures-in-msfs.452674/post-883480


GaryGB

 

[=Hollywood=]

Sean Isom has posted info on some of this since the release of MSFS:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/bgldec-a-resample-bgl-and-cgl-decompressor.433789/

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...eneration-custom-dem-works.450379/post-883251

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/high-level-overview-of-msfs2020-tech.448406/post-869578


PS: Pete Beeby has posted info on distinctions between G-Polys and MSFS' Projected Mesh as, IIUC, its version of FS' "RenderToTexture".

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/hires-ground-textures-in-msfs.452674/post-883480


GaryGB

Too heady for me Gary , I'm not a programmer and that's like going back 20 years in FS development with a wrench to generate elevation models, it's far beyond my abilities and time availability. FSX/P3D is as simple as export geotiff and run resample.exe on the data.

 

[GaryGB]

It remains to be seen what the hard-coded limit may be in MSFS for terrain mesh resolution.

AFAIK, the practical- (or hard-coded ?)- MSFS limit on resolution for imagery is zoom level-20 / LOD-20 / QMID-22.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/flattens.425495/post-633002


If I have interpreted this info correctly, that equates to 3.5 cm per pixel, which would overwhelm any rendering engine ...unless LODs / MIPMAPs were used.


You may recall Dick posted a good treatise on the considerations of actually using this very high resolution in FS at run time, within his original thread for FS2Kx here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/3-5cm-per-pixel.21121/


...A few related discussions:

https://www.google.com/search?q=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+GaryGB+rhumbaflappy+"3.5cm"&ei=9uVfY-CwEaSt0PEP2pqFuAo&ved=0ahUKEwjgg8XV4Ir7AhWkFjQIHVpNAacQ4dUDCBA&oq=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+GaryGB+rhumbaflappy+"3.5cm"&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQDDoKCAAQRxDWBBCwA0oECEEYAEoECEYYAFC4E1jFjCRgtZwkaAFwAXgAgAGXAYgBlwWSAQM1LjKYAQCgAQGgAQLIAQTAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz-serp


To do something comparable, with terrain TINs, we would again have to use LODs / MIPMAPs in order to not overwhelm MSFS' rendering engine.


Perhaps Arno can implement output of MSFS TINs as "sloped flattens", and also output G-Polys as TIN 3D models 'draped' with LOD-20 (or even higher) imagery ?


These things should be within reach for MSFS, as Gottfried Razek / BlueSky and Luis Sa' had already been doing this with SCASM 3D surfaces draped with BMPs for FS9.

https://www.blueskyscenery.com/UserComments.html

http://www.ptsim.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=737


However, ASOBO reportedly has not yet resolved some issues with prioritized display of high-res. G-Polys versus low-res. Projected Mesh:

https://devsupport.flightsimulator....hotogametry-acting-weird-low-res-when-ph.html

https://devsupport.flightsimulator.com/questions/11249/bug-cgl-over-tin-rendering-issues.html


Certainly it was more convenient in FS2Kx where AI Traffic required flat / level airport surfaces to use superimposed / Z-Bias adjusted flat 3D G-Polys.

But the potential has always been there to over-ride the underlying terrain and replace it with textured TINs that implement seasonal changes via special coding.


I agree that such coding seems impractical for most would-be scenery modders to consider; but IMHO Arno could enable MCX / ScenProc to simplify those tasks.


Perhaps we might further simplify the tasks Arno's utilities need to perform for MS-FS output, by initially processing source data using software such as this:

PhotoMesh - Skyline Software

PhotoMesh – Fully automated, scalable photogrammetry High-performance 3D reconstruction that transforms photos into quality, 2D and 3D geospatial data Combining photos in a wide range of formats, PhotoMesh generates highly-detailed 3D meshes, orthophotos, point clouds, elevation models, and...

www.skylinesoft.com

BTW: I got a kick out of the choice of name for one of that company's other products (...hello Misho ! ).

https://www.skylinesoft.com/terrabuilder/


GaryGB