What's Going On Here?

[SubLogical]

This airport is CZAM (Salmon Arm, BC) and I was about to add it to my local collection of attractive flight stops but on attempting to land the airport runway disappeared and reappeared at differing altitudes.

As far as I know this is a stock airport and I haven't made any changes except a try at fixing things with a Flatten Mask Class Map ExcludeAutoGen around the boundary fence and it made no difference.

Maybe you could load this airport up and see if you're getting the same mess I'm getting ... on two different computers!!!

The airport alt shows 1750.997 and FSX on the RWY is 1747.5

Ken

 

[glottis]

Ken,
do you have any addon/s for this area at all? the first pic shows water around you!!
attached is the default airport which looks nothing like yours............
if you do then disable it or them to see if the default airport is ok!

 

[SubLogical]

Hi glottis,
I had tried without the addon scenery before posting but to be sure I tried again and got the same results. See Library pic 1 after Library set to Scenery1-off

I haven't shut down Library pic 2 items and tried without them but I've never had trouble with them before. Maybe I'll have to shut down to the Numbered scenery to know for sure.

I haven't laid finger on CZAM at this point so I don't think I'm causing the "scrambled eggs". It's significant that your view is like mine at 3100 ft but did you try and land there? I used the Slew and the Trike and raised and lowered the altitude to get the distortions. If you did and it all worked well then I've got a problem at this end ... but on two separate computers ...? albeit with similar a scenery Library.

Appreciate your checking for me,

Thanks,
Ken

 

[Lane Street]

Did you simply uncheck the UT layers or did you use the UT setup tool?

cheers,
Lane

 

[SubLogical]

Hi Lane,

Oh, oh .... don't tell me it won't shut down unless it's done at the set up tool!!!!
Hold your seat, I'll get back to you.

Ken

 

[SubLogical]

On the one hand I regret that didn't solve the problem ... on the other hand I'm getting tired of being the perennial cause of my own problems !

Interesting how UT shuts down from setup ... some still in the ticked on position. I've had my share of fun with UT but it's settled down at the moment with my AddOn airports.

CZAM is 25 miles from the ranch as the crow goes and I can't believe it's got a 4600 foot runway ... Salmon Arm is a nice town but I'd be surprised if there's any heavy's going in there.

Oh well nice to hear you're not drowning down there ... I can't say that I miss Vancouver ...

See ya,

Ken

 

[glottis]

Ken,
no need to land i took off from 32 to take the pic and i had no sign of water!!! i have no addons except Acceleration........
my view is not like yours you have a square/oblong airport i don't
you also said you used a flatten to try to fix the problem where is that file?
you need to untick "everything" that is not stock FSX to find the problem

 

[Big777jet]

Did you use flattens ploygen?

Stuart

 

[SubLogical]

Good morning Glottis,

In view of your experience the problem is clearly on these two computers of mine. Like you say I'll have to clean the Library down to Stock only and see what happens ... and then add back till I find the troublemaker.

I use ADE for my airport development and tried the polygon flattener using that program. When it didn't change anything I removed it as a project and from the AddOn scenery file.

About all that's left is the FTX stuff which I'll disarm and see what happens. I have Acceleration like you and maybe it changed CZAM ... it looks like a pretty modern airport for Stock!

Many thanks for the confirmation.

Hi Stuart, yes I tried to flatten the airport using the boundary fences as the guide but it had no effect.

I'll report my results to this thread.

Ken

 

[SubLogical]

I unticked all items down to the Numbered entries except "Orbx Vector!-AEC" which refused to be unticked ... and there was no change in the distortion.

However, I got to thinking about FTX Vector Configurator which includes an Airport Elevation Corrections Feature that I used some time ago and it may have something to do with CZAM. What makes this questionable is that you can enable/disable the various airports and CZAM is not shown in either column.

I downloaded a very handy Scanner facility from Scruffy Duck that turned up a couple of entries for CZAM, one of which refers to an FTX_NRM (Northern Rocky Mountains)_CZAM_elevation_adjustment BGL and this is clearly suspicious. I don't use the NRM scenery but that may have nothing to do with the elevation question.

I think I'd better get on to Orbx support and see if they have corrupted the CZAM scenery by changing the elevations ... it looks like the distortion causer to me.

Otherwise, I'm outta gas!

Ken

 

[Big777jet]

Try remove find an old files CZAM flatten or exclude in the scenery folder previous sitting in file. That may cause flatten confused ADE and old file exclude. I did once before found old file remove and it worked. I'm not sure czam if you using or previous download file.

Stuart

 

[Lane Street]

I downloaded a very handy Scanner facility from Scruffy Duck that turned up a couple of entries for CZAM, one of which refers to an FTX_NRM (Northern Rocky Mountains)_CZAM_elevation_adjustment BGL and this is clearly suspicious. I don't use the NRM scenery but that may have nothing to do with the elevation question.

You must have had NRM installed at one time, to get that file.

This is exactly why you must use setup tools for addons like FTX, UT, etc. as they do more than just check/uncheck entries in the Scenery Library.

This file is most likely the cause of your problems as it's purpose is to change the airport elevation and your screenshots look like you have conflicting files telling the sim what the airport elevation is.

cheers,
Lane

 

[SubLogical]

Hi Lane,

I think you and Stuart are suggesting that the CZAM_Elevation_Adjustment BGL should be renamed or deleted and I'm in agreement but a little nervous when it comes to deleting BGL's. And you're right about the NRM scenery, I had it loaded and it covered this area and even North of Kamloops so that makes your delete at source advice well taken.

I have asked FTX what they make of it but rather than stew on it further I'll find that BGL (I hope) and put it out of action.

If all else fails, what about putting an Exclusion poly over the whole area and re-install the airport?

Ken

Oh my wife tells me that the Canlis Restaurant was located on Aurora street but it sounds like it was before your time!!!

 

[SubLogical]

It's nice to be in the company of genius!

The FTX_NRM_CZAM_elevation adjustment BGL was the culprit.

That fixed it ... Jon's scanner is an invaluable bit of code ... I don't know how that would have been found without it.

But Lane, are you really suggesting that when you're bedding down these scenery programs that unchecking the Library should be replaced by source deletion?

Many thanks for the help with this ... now I'm going to do a number on the Salmon Arm airport with ADE and IS!!!

Best,

Ken

 

[Lane Street]

Ken,

Manually enabling/disabling products like FTX and UT is asking for problems. Those setup utilities do more than just check/uncheck entries in the Scenery Library, they also manipulate stock files and make other, non-Scenery Library changes.

When you change an airport's elevation ADE places a file known as a "stub afcad" in ...\Scenery\World\scenery. These files are required due to different parts of FS reading different files for airport elevation.

When you enable an FTX region the setup tool copies a bunch of "stub afcads" to ...\Scenery\World\scenery. If you then disable that region by only disabling it's entries in the Scenery Library, those "stub afcads" get left behind. and can play havoc with even default airports.

If you disable the FTX region via the FTX Central program those "stub afcads" get removed.

Best to just use the software as it was designed to be used.

Oh, and Canlis is still there, north end of the bridge. I haven't been there for several years yet I doubt much has changed there.

http://canlis.com/

cheers,
Lane

 

[SubLogical]

Lane,

Thanks for that advice which will be taken to heart. When I was deleting the Elevation adjustment bgl I saw the footprints of FTX_NRM all over hell which now explains to me why these so-called stock airports like CZAM ain't stock.

One of these days I'm going to understand what's going on behind the "scenery" ... in the meantime it's a lot of fun!

Ken

 

[SubLogical]

Lane,

I was digesting your comments and I can see there's a major difference between tinkering with scenery options in the Library which gives you a quick view of the effects but unless you remove the underlying changes that were made by the scenery installation you're still not looking at a stock airport.

I duplicate everything I do on two computers for backup purposes and also to try experimental changes before locking things in ... but after digesting your points it's clear that the unticking alone still leaves a residue of changes to the stock version of the airport ... some of which aren't so bad but that's where to look if they are.

Very interesting and educational. I'm glad that this came up ... it's an important consideration that emphasizes your point. It's also interesting that the two CZAM's on different computers still don't have the same look after unchecking the FTX NRM without the complete uninstall you've been encouraging. As mentioned before Jon's scanner is a valuable tool in this business.

Hmmmm!

Canlis was a family business in the old days replete with a sommelier who candled and decanted the wine at your table ... and I've never seen Steak Tartare since ... having traveled a lot of the world and eaten high on an expense account, Canlis sticks in my memory as a true 5 star ... probably not the same place today.

Ken

 

[jvile]

It's also interesting that the two CZAM's on different computers still don't have the same look after unchecking the FTX NRM without the complete uninstall you've been encouraging.

Ken

Some 3rd party replace the stock Terrain.cfg in the FSX root folder with a modified version to fit with the coding of their scenery.

 

[Lane Street]

..'the two CZAM's on different computers still don't have the same look after unchecking the FTX NRM without the complete uninstall you've been encouraging.

Please note that disabling an FTX region through the FTX Central utility is what I am suggesting, not completely uninstalling the software.

cheers,
Lane

 

[SubLogical]

OK I'm going to try that and see what happens. I really just want the Coast and Alaska so the NRM and CRM's are just hanging around doing nothing ... maybe!

Ken