Why would AI A/C not leave preflight?

[DanKH]

If you start putting FS2002 type AI Planes into FS9/FSX, the rules have changed and you must code a Pushback into your XML which is basically the same as the txt code previously used.

Well that might be just what solved My problem, still not sure it has solved Keal's problem from which I so bluntly stole the thread , Sorry.

Thanks for your explanations, and yes I have a Hold-short as my AI just continues to taxi out on the RWY and then halt's there if I haven't ;-)

Anyway, others than me I think will be using models from various versions of FS, especially if you have the need for using a bit rare aircraft and none new version is available.

So all I can say, is that in my particular problem, with my particular aircraft, it solved the vanishing by adding other than NONE into the PushBack property ;-)

As you say, that might be backwards-almost-compatibility-reasons then...

But it works for me, so I'm a happy bunny. Good to have those other things in mind though.

 

[jvile]

Dan

Your FS2002 AI Plane does show that a pushback must be coded so it does not vanish from the parking spot.

I don't have any FS2002 planes on my computers but it is good to know that the pushback XML will force the FS2002 model.mdl backwards. I did add parking and FP's to EKAT and EKLS in FSX and the default GA FSX planes will pushback with "NONE"

Kael's problem is a little different in that the AI Planes gets stuck in PREFLIGHT SUPPORT state and never disappear. I was finally able to duplicate the problems at both EDDF and EDDM and once I closed down all ground support the AI planes came out of PREFLIGHT SUPPORT and went to Clearance. from that point they pushed back just fine.

I am trying to determine if it is a RAM memory issue or a FSX problem when too many ground support are active at one time.

 

[Mace]

I am trying to determine if it is a RAM memory issue or a FSX problem when too many ground support are active at one time.

Ah ha, you may be on to something....

...because I have never noticed the problem with airport ground service vehicles slider set to "Minimum".

On the other hand...it may well happen with that slider set to max, which is where I set it when testing an airport I'm working on.

Perhaps it is a traffic issue, because I've noticed aircraft holding while taxiing at odd spots, because a ground vehicle was using the vehicle taxiway 100-200-400 feet away. Maybe the preflight support holdup is for the same reason.

 

[KaelO]

Ah ha, you may be on to something....

Perhaps it is a traffic issue, because I've noticed aircraft holding while taxiing at odd spots, because a ground vehicle was using the vehicle taxiway 100-200-400 feet away. Maybe the preflight support holdup is for the same reason.

I've also noticed this. Its for that reason that were ever possible I've put vehicle taxiways. This allows the ground support vehicles to use their own taxi way and keeps them off the aircraft taxiway. While vehicles are on the aircraft taxiway, everything gets held up. I'm going to try Jims idea and lower the amount of vehicles. At the moment I've got it set to maximum.

Cheers for your help guys,
Kael

 

[jvile]

I have eliminated any issues with RAM.

I have tested on 3 different computers from 512k to 4 gig of RAM and the problem still exsit when ground support is set to MAX.

It now is starting to appear that too many ground support loading can cause a timing problem when the AI goes into PREFLIGHT SUPPORT where as the conveyor misses the command to move. If it does not move then the State stops calling for the additional code and the AI Plane just sits there.

 

[KaelO]

I have eliminated any issues with RAM.

I have tested on 3 different computers from 512k to 4 gig of RAM and the problem still exsit when ground support is set to MAX.

It now is starting to appear that too many ground support loading can cause a timing problem when the AI goes into PREFLIGHT SUPPORT where as the conveyor misses the command to move. If it does not move then the State stops calling for the additional code and the AI Plane just sits there.

Correct!! I just conducted the exact same test on the 2 computers i've got. Same result. I then waited until a couple of A/C got stuck and reduced the ground vehicles from HIGH to NONE and they cleared. Interestingly, MY aircraft was also sitting at a gate and I had called the baggage vehicles by opening the secondary doors. They didn't come until I reduced the ground vehicles, so it obviosuly doesn't just affect AI aircraft (although I can leave pre-flight whenever I like).

So, how do we work on a fix, or is this beyond anybody here and really a Microsoft issue? I'm going to do some troubleshooting with different levels of ground vehicles.

Cheers,
Kael

 

[jvile]

Kael

When we exhaust all our effords to find a work around then we go to MS and report the problems.

I am leaning toward a timing issue when set to max because on 3 different computers with XP and Vista the parking spots are random where the plane gets stuck.

One computer (XP) stops using all parking spots at the West Terminal (EDDM) and another computer (Vista) stops using parking spots at the East Terminal (EDDM).

EDDF is also ramdom based on which computer I test with.

I have 300 + parking spot for my KATL and 250 for KMIA and can't duplicate the problems there. I am now wondering if it is Region specific rather then Global code specific.

 

[KaelO]

Jim,

What would lead you to think it was limited to particular regions? The couple of airports I've tested for this I've found it effects various gates, there appears nothing specific about them. I also found that reducing the ground vehicles from MAX-HIGH-MEDIUM-LOW made no difference. It was only when set to none that all stuck aircraft moved off.

I don't know enough about the code for the ground vehicles to see what would stop them moving. When I first encountered this problem, I thought perhaps that the gate vehicles where unable to moved when first called because other vehicles where on a nearby taxi way (the same sort of thing that AI aircraft stop for each other) and maybe the ground vehicles only got called that first time. Ie, if they got called and got stuck/couldn't go due to traffic, they never got called again. However your discovery of reducing vehicles to none seems to shoot that theory.

Kael

 

[Mace]

I am now wondering if it is Region specific rather then Global code specific.

In FSX, there appear to be (based on my very limited experiments with object placement) region-specific airport ground vehicle types.

Perhaps the Euro_ ground vehicle types have something wrong with them...

 

[hcornea]

Is it possible that there are two ground vehicles elsewhere locked in a logic error and unable to move that are preventing the plane from leaving - and hence leaving pre-flight?

On occasion I have seen too AI planes nose to nose, until they just disappear, with neither plane able to move.

 

[seanpaul76]

Ok great posts everybody. I have a similar but different problem. My AI dissapears when its supposed to be pushing back.

The order of take off for my AI:
Preflight
Clearance
Disappear

Landing AI that should taxi to a gate... Disappears after slowing to taxi speed.

I have checked all the taxiway connections and everything connects!

I took a look at my neighboor airport KMDW and designed the taxiways in that way.

From the runway to the gate I have:
Runway > Taxiway > Path > Path > Parking

Im not quite sure if the pathways are causing the problem or not.. Im going to change them to taxiway to see what happens. Could someone with an operational airport tell me their order of roads from the runway as i did above?

Im a attaching my xml for you guys to check out.

 

[VSP4264]

reactived topic

My solution is decrease the slider on DISPLAY > TRAFFIC > Airport vehicle density from MAX to HIGH

 

[jvile]

reactived topic

My solution is decrease the slider on DISPLAY > TRAFFIC > Airport vehicle density from MAX to HIGH

Your solution may work fine for that airport. However there are airports that you must turn off (slider full left) all Airport Ground Traffic.

 

[VSP4264]

Jim,

I discover you allright in SAME AIRPORT that i "found" the solution

 

[csharpe]

I realize this is an old topic, but I appear to have found a workaround that allows "Airport vehicle density" to remain at maximum and clearance to be granted for the misbehaving aircraft. For aircraft that get stuck in pre or postflight support, the baggage cart function can be disabled for the individual aircraft, allowing it to depart. Simply open the aircraft.cfg file, go to [exits], and make sure "number_of_exits =1". Example:

[exits]
number_of_exits =1
exit.0 = 0.4, 25.90, -4.5, -1.0, 0

The above setting allows for only the jetway to be active.

If you have more than 1 exit listed and do not want to delete the other entries, add a double slash "//" to cancel out the remaining exits. Example.

[exits]
number_of_exits =1
exit.0 = 0.4, 25.90, -4.5, -1.0, 0
//exit.1 = 0.4, -32.00, 4.5, 0.5, 1

Best,
Carlyle

 

[jvile]

hello Carlyle

Thank you for that work around.

 

[chris]

I had the same problem at LFRB. Searching for a solution found this thread.
The problem at LFRB was the fuel truck jammed up against parking 1. It could not manoeuver into position.
The following solution fixed it;

Before:

After:

 

[VSP4264]

I realize this is an old topic, but I appear to have found a workaround that allows "Airport vehicle density" to remain at maximum and clearance to be granted for the misbehaving aircraft. For aircraft that get stuck in pre or postflight support, the baggage cart function can be disabled for the individual aircraft, allowing it to depart. Simply open the aircraft.cfg file, go to [exits], and make sure "number_of_exits =1". Example:

[exits]
number_of_exits =1
exit.0 = 0.4, 25.90, -4.5, -1.0, 0

The above setting allows for only the jetway to be active.

If you have more than 1 exit listed and do not want to delete the other entries, add a double slash "//" to cancel out the remaining exits. Example.

[exits]
number_of_exits =1
exit.0 = 0.4, 25.90, -4.5, -1.0, 0
//exit.1 = 0.4, -32.00, 4.5, 0.5, 1

Best,
Carlyle

I do this, but still get "clearance forever" planes...