P3D v5 V5.3HF2 some libraries not displaying, CVX fails to This behaviour

[Tim Collins]

I develop freeware airfield sceneries for MAIW.

Scince installing 5.3HF2 I’ve noticed that some scenery libraries only partially display. That is, some objects from the library display perfectly, others don’t appear at all. All models are to P3Dv4.4 format; all textures DDS5.

At the same time, it appears that CVX files written in Airport Design Editor 1.79 no longer overwrite the stock airfield backgrounds, and in fact don’t appear at all, even if ‘exclude specific’ polygons are used to try and delete the stock backgrounds. This makes it very difficult to flatten a different-shaped area from stock, or to modify the elevation of an airfield.

This behaviour is apparent on airfields that worked fine in earlier iterations of v5 and v4.4+.

Anyone got any clues?

 

[Bushpilot]

Because of the cvx files...
In P3Dv5 there are new entries in terrain.cfg!
But I do not know if ADE uses these.
Because the old entries are still there.

- old entries

// Airport Backgrounds (FSX) - ExcludeAutoGen
[Texture.264]
Name=Airport_Backgrounds_ExcludeAutoGen
Color=FFFFFF00
guid={6C0C6528-5CF1-483A-A586-2C905CF2757E}
FlattenMode=none
LandClassRemapType=none
ExcludeAutogen=Yes
RenderToTexture=No
RenderPriority=200000
Water=No

// Airport Backgrounds (FSX) - Flatten + MaskClassMap
[Texture.265]
Name=Airport_Backgrounds_Flatten_MaskClassMap
Color=FFFFFF00
guid={5A7F944C-3D79-4E0C-82F5-04844E5DC653}
FlattenMode=flat
FlattenPriority=51000
LandClassRemapType=airport
ExcludeAutogen=No
RenderToTexture=No
RenderPriority=20000
Water=No

// Airport Backgrounds (FSX) - Flatten
[Texture.266]
Name=Airport_Backgrounds_Flatten
Color=FFFFFF00
guid={47D48287-3ADE-4FC5-8BEC-B6B36901E612}
FlattenMode=flat
FlattenPriority=51000
LandClassRemapType=none
ExcludeAutogen=No
RenderToTexture=No
RenderPriority=200000
Water=No

// Airport Backgrounds (FSX) - MaskClassMap
[Texture.267]
Name=Airport_Backgrounds_MaskClassMap
Color=FFFFFF00
guid={1F2BAAB1-4132-416E-8F6F-28ABE79CD60B}
FlattenMode=none
LandClassRemapType=airport
ExcludeAutogen=No
RenderToTexture=No
RenderPriority=20000
Water=No

- new entries

// Airport Backgrounds (P3D) - Flatten + MaskClassMap + ExcludeAutoGen + Smooth
[Texture.383]
Name=Airport_Backgrounds_Flatten_MaskClassMap_ExcludeAutoGen_Smooth
Color=FFFFFF00
guid={5E617DC5-4394-4E4A-9C07-8652B06D96A5}
FlattenMode=flat
FlattenPriority=51000
LandClassRemapType=airport
ExcludeAutogen=Yes
SmoothMode=smooth
RenderToTexture=No
RenderPriority=20000
Water=No

// Airport Backgrounds (P3D) - Flatten + ExcludeAutoGen + Smooth
[Texture.384]
Name=Airport_Backgrounds_Flatten_ExcludeAutoGen_Smooth
Color=FFFFFF00
guid={4C33C6C2-DEC3-446C-89AF-6C02CFFC6BD2}
FlattenMode=flat
FlattenPriority=51000
LandClassRemapType=none
ExcludeAutogen=Yes
SmoothMode=smooth
RenderToTexture=No
RenderPriority=200000
Water=No

// Airport Backgrounds (P3D) - Flatten + MaskClassMap + Smooth
[Texture.385]
Name=Airport_Backgrounds_Flatten_MaskClassMap_Smooth
Color=FFFFFF00
guid={8C2D8144-2786-4109-AEA9-F1046E3D15BF}
FlattenMode=flat
FlattenPriority=51000
LandClassRemapType=airport
ExcludeAutogen=No
SmoothMode=smooth
RenderToTexture=No
RenderPriority=20000
Water=No

// Airport Backgrounds (P3D) - Flatten + Smooth
[Texture.386]
Name=Airport_Backgrounds_Flatten_Smooth
Color=FFFFFF00
guid={C8BCC155-4B2B-406B-92CC-EBB115C8B9EB}
FlattenMode=flat
FlattenPriority=51000
LandClassRemapType=none
ExcludeAutogen=No
SmoothMode=smooth
RenderToTexture=No
RenderPriority=200000
Water=No

// Airport Backgrounds (P3D) - MinFlatten
[Texture.387]
Name=Airport_Backgrounds_MinFlatten
Color=FFFFFF00
guid={5C439590-3A3A-49D6-BFE7-B6E75847476E}
FlattenMode=min
FlattenPriority=52000
LandClassRemapType=none
ExcludeAutogen=No
RenderToTexture=No
RenderPriority=200000
Water=No

// Airport Backgrounds (P3D) - MinFlatten + MaskClassMap
[Texture.388]
Name=Airport_Backgrounds_MinFlatten_MaskClassMap
Color=FFFFFF00
guid={90DF8D2A-8690-46D3-98FD-6B20935E474A}
FlattenMode=min
FlattenPriority=52000
LandClassRemapType=airport
ExcludeAutogen=No
RenderToTexture=No
RenderPriority=20000
Water=No

// Airport Backgrounds (P3D) - MinFlatten + ExcludeAutoGen
[Texture.389]
Name=Airport_Backgrounds_MinFlatten_ExcludeAutoGen
Color=FFFFFF00
guid={C929F31F-4B8D-4EDB-A744-23838977979F}
FlattenMode=min
FlattenPriority=52000
LandClassRemapType=none
ExcludeAutogen=Yes
RenderToTexture=No
RenderPriority=200000
Water=No

// Airport Backgrounds (P3D) - MinFlatten + MaskClassMap + ExcludeAutoGen
[Texture.390]
Name=Airport_Backgrounds_MinFlatten_MaskClassMap_ExcludeAutoGen
Color=FFFFFF00
guid={376C8447-0C78-4E9F-A23E-413F9929C8A5}
FlattenMode=min
FlattenPriority=52000
LandClassRemapType=airport
ExcludeAutogen=Yes
RenderToTexture=No
RenderPriority=20000
Water=No

// Airport Backgrounds (P3D) - MinFlatten + Smooth
[Texture.391]
Name=Airport_Backgrounds_MinFlatten_Smooth
Color=FFFFFF00
guid={45BA1AF8-8A17-4764-9607-0500335395E3}
FlattenMode=min
FlattenPriority=52000
LandClassRemapType=none
ExcludeAutogen=No
SmoothMode=smooth
RenderToTexture=No
RenderPriority=200000
Water=No

// Airport Backgrounds (P3D) - MinFlatten + MaskClassMap + Smooth
[Texture.392]
Name=Airport_Backgrounds_MinFlatten_MaskClassMap_Smooth
Color=FFFFFF00
guid={EE71C1A7-762D-4265-B00D-4523A64555B4}
FlattenMode=min
FlattenPriority=52000
LandClassRemapType=airport
ExcludeAutogen=No
SmoothMode=smooth
RenderToTexture=No
RenderPriority=20000
Water=No

// Airport Backgrounds (P3D) - MinFlatten + ExcludeAutoGen + Smooth
[Texture.393]
Name=Airport_Backgrounds_MinFlatten_ExcludeAutoGen_Smooth
Color=FFFFFF00
guid={8B454779-F64D-4141-A473-67E2BC11D73E}
FlattenMode=min
FlattenPriority=52000
LandClassRemapType=none
ExcludeAutogen=Yes
SmoothMode=smooth
RenderToTexture=No
RenderPriority=200000
Water=No

// Airport Backgrounds (P3D) - MinFlatten + MaskClassMap + ExcludeAutoGen + Smooth
[Texture.394]
Name=Airport_Backgrounds_MinFlatten_MaskClassMap_ExcludeAutoGen_Smooth
Color=FFFFFF00
guid={7073E93E-9E39-4405-8CC8-1F7DA10586FB}
FlattenMode=min
FlattenPriority=52000
LandClassRemapType=airport
ExcludeAutogen=Yes
SmoothMode=smooth
RenderToTexture=No
RenderPriority=20000
Water=No

Maybe this explains a little bit your problem with the airports.

If ADE does not use these new terrain.cfg entries, then you can try SBuilderX.
In SBuilder you can define the entries which are used.

 

[scruffyduck]

Go to the P35 version folder inside the ADE 1.79 main folder and look for a file called TerrainGuids.dat

This contains information about type and GUID.

I am not in a position to make an update to 1.79 at the moment but perhaps someone could update it with the new entries and see if that helps.

 

[Tim Collins]

Thanks for the info, guys. I’ll take a look at it over the next hour or two.

 

[Bushpilot]

To be able to use the new entries, they have to be added to the shapePolyList.dat file (\P35\shapePolyList.dat).
Otherwise they cannot be selected in ADE.

The new entries refer only to "sloped" airports.
Only testing helps.

 

[scruffyduck]

Thanks. I got the wrong file but now I am not sure what that is used for

 

[Bushpilot]

The changes should certainly be entered in both files.

Here for testing, both changed files in a zip.

Unzip and copy the files in ADE 1.79 into the folder P35.

Save old shapePolyList.dat and terrainGuids.dat before!

Edit:
The changed files did not work properly, so I removed them.
I will revise them.

 

[Tim Collins]

Interesting - Jon, the list you screenshot is exactly as it shows in my ADE v5 folder, and what is available in the Exclude Specific menu - yet you have the 'smooth' versions in the Airport Backgrounds menu.

Mike, thanks for that. When P3Dv5 has finished loading, I'll let you know if it's worked for me!

 

[Tim Collins]

Yeah - ok. No success yet! Everything in these shots (to just outside the ground image) should be flat. And there should be quite a few hangars as well, but that's the other problem!

 

[Bushpilot]

No success yet!

Maybe another add-on that is interfering?
ORBX likes to cause problems?

 

[Tim Collins]

I've had problems with Orbx when they've updated airports within their regional products or Global Airports Library, but that's simply a matter of removing the airport from within the appropriate Orbx folder. They've never touched KMOB, so I'm pretty sure it's not that!

 

[Bushpilot]

At the same time, it appears that CVX files written in Airport Design Editor 1.79 no longer overwrite the stock airfield backgrounds, and in fact don’t appear at all, even if ‘exclude specific’ polygons are used to try and delete the stock backgrounds. This makes it very difficult to flatten a different-shaped area from stock, or to modify the elevation of an airfield.

If necessary, first delete the airport background with Exclude General ---> Airport Background.
And do not work with Exclude Specific.

But remember...
If there is already an AddOn, then only this will be overridden and the standard airport will still be there.

You have to imagine the flight simulator in different floors.
Standard at the bottom and possibly an AddOn above.
Above that, you work yourself.

With Exclude, however, I can only work on one level, the level below my own work.

So you would first have to remove/exclude the AddOn at the point you want to change and then you can edit Standard.

If you edit the AddOn, then Standard can appear and make life difficult for you.

I'm going to have a look at KMOB.
And then I'll get back to you.

 

[Tim Collins]

There are no addons for KMOB.

No change by using Exclude General.

 

[Bushpilot]

I have no problems with the standard KMOB.

First removed buildings and autogen (for a better overview).

Then removed the airport background.

Then I added a new background and an extreme height (with flattening) to part of the airport.
The rest of the airport got the airport height with flattening.

Road and river in the foreground still need to be removed separately.

I think the solution is to remove the airport background with Exclude General ---> Airport Background.

Everything in the P3Dv5.3 sp2...

 

[Tim Collins]

I'm now wondering if it's something embedded in my KMOB ADE CVX file. I've replaced the Exclude Specific with Exclude General, with no change. The same airfield in P3Dv4.5 works perfectly (compiled separately for v4, not v5), with the same Orbx Global and Vector installation. I shall keep looking!

 

[Bushpilot]

Maybe the only thing that helps is to start again from scratch.

Vector could already be a problem, but it is no longer needed in P3Dv5.
Because in this respect the P3Dv5 brings everything already itself.
- Airports at the right place
- Coastlines, rivers, lakes and roads at the right place

Vector has its own excludes and flattening.
If you have taken it over from the P3Dv4, also own airports.

Just deactivate/remove from P3D and see if you miss something.

Global should rather not make any problems, since it is about texture changes.

I'll attach my test files here to help you find the error.

In general you should try to keep everything separate in such projects.
- exclude Airport Background
- exclude autogen
- exclude 3D objects
- new flatten
- new airport textures
- new 3D objects
- new AFCAD

So everything into an own file, this facilitates then the error tracing.

 

[Tim Collins]

Why do I feel like I’ve just been told off?! Remembering that I’m using ADE (the clue’s in the forum name) I’m somewhat limited by the way that software works. So dividing the project into the separate units you suggest isn’t really compatible with ADE unless I only use it to feed into other software. I do use SBX for airfield backgrounds, but it’s such a long time since that software received any support or updates that I’m reluctant to rely on it. And I do this for fun; no-one is buying my time.

So I try to keep up with the changes brought by each iteration of P3D, but LM are parsimonious with information, and so experimentation is the only way ahead. I do one airfield in detail every six months or so, so a lot can change in between projects. But it’s very frustrating when your last project went seamlessly for P3Dv5 (ETNA) and the next - an update of an older project - falls apart!

 

[Tim Collins]

Hi Mike

well, I'm not really getting anywhere! I have disabled all scenery addons in P3Dv5.3HF2. I've created a new KMOB from the stock airport in ADE, using an Airport Background Exclude General and deleting stock data to get rid of the buildings. This is the ADE screen:

Yet in P3D, this is what I see:

So, then I loaded your version via ADE:

And this is the result: No change to the background, but the buildings have gone.

So, then I took your bgls and installed them in the scenery folder for the airport instead of the ADE-derived files. No change.

This is a new installation of P3Dv5, only installed a couple of days ago. All I can think of is to completely clear out the installation and start again from scratch!

 

[Bushpilot]

Great, if it works now!

Then an add-on seems to have messed up your older P3D installation.
Because it looks like it works with the new P3D installation.

To remove the airport background, I would adjust the exclusion polygon to approximately the size of the background.

- in the P3D

- in ADE

Another small hint on the side...

To prevent such errors, I keep my P3D clean (on default).
All additional things (scenery, aircraft, ...) are outside the P3D.
Even autogen (autogen descriptions), effects or LUA scripts can be outside the P3D thanks to xml integration.
Sound texts created with EditVoicepack can also be outside the P3D.

The only thing that can be destroyed in my case would be the terrain.cfg, add-ons.cfg or scenery.cfg...
And it is very easy to create backups of these.


Have fun working on the airport.
If you have any questions, just ask them here.

 

[Tim Collins]

Yes, that is exactly how I run it.

So, it didn't work. There is some corruption somewhere, but I can't find it! The same airfield works perfectly in P3Dv4.5 with all the same addons (compiled by ADE for that sim, of course). I've uninstalled P3Dv5 this evening and I'll rebuild it tomorrow.

The background exclusions should work with the simple triangle as long as they intersect the stock background. More than one may be needed if the background crosses a tile boundary, but this is the technique recommended in many guides to the process. As it happens, I tried copy'n'pasting my airfield background and converting it to a Background exclusion, but it made no difference.

I do appreciate the help, Mike, so thanks for that. Unfortunately, it wasn't successful this time! Hopefully a new P3Dv5 installation will sort it out.