ADE Ground Poly question

[Tomt478]

I have a question... why can't I make a ground poly that is raised slightly higher than the airport alt? I can make one that is lower, but it won't work if I make it higher. All I want to do is make some little "bumps" or small "hills" on the land without having to go through all the slope poly stuff. Wouldn't it stand to reason that if your airport is at 452 ft, and you create a ground poly at 552.ft, the ground poly would be higher than the airport? It works if you make the ground poly at 352ft, so why won't it work at 552ft?

 

[GaryGB]

Good question.

There are FS rendering engine quirks that AFAIK, may involve Airport Test Radius top display priority of a "flatten" at the Altitude assigned by Airport ARP Properties, if airport BGLComp code encircles an 'airport object' local terrain area in FS.

This may preempt both SDK TMF Quad Grid Resample Terrain mesh and SHP2VEC CVX Terrain Mesh Modifier polygon objects.


In the past, I used a faux LOD-extent 'work around' after a FS2Kx terrain mesh 'reverse priority' was ID'd by Holger Sandmann.

IIUC, that same mechanism is still operant in MSFS ...but worse, as default airports seem to disable Altitude in CVX AB polys.


In MSFS, a faux LOD-extent 'work around' may not work, as rhumbaflappy cited issues when "NODATA" attributes are used.

I need to research that to see if it involves terrain modification, or if it instead referred to mapping of imagery onto terrain.


I have yet to test that in this project, and in MSFS as I have been busy with other commitments and IRL matters until recently.

I do plan to test the above work around' for the "Hill" test-of-concept as early as today after the FSX terrain mesh is compiled.

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

It's just weird, To me it just would make sense that if you can lower a poly below the airport alt and it works fine, I know, I did that with a small area down to the south of the island where I made a small valey that is 50ft below the airport alt, I created a road with polys under them going up to the airport alt to create the slope going down into the valley, it works fine. But, when I try to do the reverse by raising the valley up 50ft and reversing the ground polys under the roads to slope downward from the top of the valley to the airport alt.,it don't work, everything stays at the airport alt instead of the alt. of the valley. This just makes no sense, it should in my opinion work the same way, except you're going up instead of down. It has to be a flaw in the way polys are compiled or something. It would be so much easier if I could put the whole airport at GL and raise things from there, but that creates a whole new set of problems that I don't want to deal with.

BTW:I'm not familiar with all these codes you keep using, ie:IIUC, AFAIK,IRL,etc...... what do these mean?

You know, this should be something that is simple and straightforward, but as I've learned in the past, nothing having to do with terrain or mesh is simple when working with FSX and/or ADE is simple. There's always some weird and complicated thing(s) you must do to accomplish something simple. I guess the program designers didn't intend for people to "play around" with things and just be happy with what "they" designed. I just don't like being confined to what some designer thinks things should "look like", I want to make things look the way I envision them to look. It's more "fun" when you can make things the way you want them , not the way "they" want them to look.

 

[GaryGB]

It's just weird, To me it just would make sense that if you can lower a poly below the airport alt and it works fine, I know, I did that with a small area down to the south of the island where I made a small valley that is 50ft below the airport alt, I created a road with polys under them going up to the airport alt to create the slope going down into the valley, it works fine. But, when I try to do the reverse by raising the valley up 50ft and reversing the ground polys under the roads to slope downward from the top of the valley to the airport alt.,it don't work, everything stays at the airport alt instead of the alt. of the valley. This just makes no sense, it should in my opinion work the same way, except you're going up instead of down. It has to be a flaw in the way polys are compiled or something. It would be so much easier if I could put the whole airport at AGL and raise things from there, but that creates a whole new set of problems that I don't want to deal with.

Welcome to my world.

As a hobby, I've studied how to deal with these scenery issues here- and at other FS scenery design forums- for decades.

BTW:I'm not familiar with all these codes you keep using, ie:IIUC, AFAIK,IRL,etc...... what do these mean?

Internet Abbreviations

https://www.google.com/search?q=Int...-AEBmAIAoAIAmAMAkgcAoAcA&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

FS2Kx: MS Flight Simulator versions within the "Y2K - 2000" series using 20+ year old legacy and newer FSX-type 'ESP' code:

2000 (aka "FS-7"; "FS2K"); 2002 (aka "FS8"); 2004 (aka "FS-9"); FS-X (aka "FS-10"); P3D (all versions use legacy and FSX/ESP code)

IIUC: If I Understand Correctly

IIRC: If I Recall Correctly

AFAIK: As Far As I Know

ISTR: I Seem To Recall

BTW: By the way

LOL: Laughing out loud

FYI: For your information

IRL: In real life

IMHO: In my humble opinion

You know, this should be something that is simple and straightforward, but as I've learned in the past, nothing having to do with terrain or mesh is simple when working with FSX and/or ADE is simple. There's always some weird and complicated thing(s) you must do to accomplish something simple. I guess the program designers didn't intend for people to "play around" with things and just be happy with what "they" designed. I just don't like being confined to what some designer thinks things should "look like", I want to make things look the way I envision them to look. It's more "fun" when you can make things the way you want them , not the way "they" want them to look.

We have attempted to unravel how the FS TMF sub-system works, and advocated SDK changes for decades; it is better now.

I'll explain what is needed for your chosen terrain configuration to work-around the quirks of FSX' terrain sub-system soon.

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

I have a question, why won't textured polys show up when regular polys do? I was able to create some rivers that connect the large bodies of water, and they show fine, but when I try to use a textured poly, they won't show up in fsx.

 

[GaryGB]

I have a question, why won't textured polys show up when regular polys do? I was able to create some rivers that connect the large bodies of water, and they show fine, but when I try to use a textured poly, they won't show up in fsx.

IIUC, you are asking why won't (VTP) textured polys show up when regular (CVX vector land / water class textured) polys do ?

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

Yeah, I can create a regular poly and it works just fine. But when I create a Textured Poly of any kind, it don't show up. Also, is it possible to edit ground polys imported from SHP files in SBX and compile them and have the changes show up in FSX? I just tried to change the altitude of the Land Poly of the island, just for the heck of it, but it don't show up as being changed. Can you actually change things from a SHP file in SBX and have the changes show?

 

[GaryGB]

Yeah, I can create a regular poly and it works just fine. But when I create a Textured Poly of any kind, it don't show up.

That depends on the type of "Textured Poly" one has created with intent for it to be displayed in FSX.

What "Textured Poly" type did you create ?.

There are multiple "Textured Poly" types one can create in SBuilderX ...as cited in this post:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/editing-bgl.459694/post-931605

Also, is it possible to edit ground polys imported from SHP files in SBX and compile them and have the changes show up in FSX?

I just tried to change the altitude of the Land Poly of the island, just for the heck of it, but it doesn't show up as being changed.

Can you actually change things from a SHP file in SBX and have the changes show?

A FS2002 (aka "FS-8") level, flat 3D SCASM / ASM Ground Polygon (aka "G-Poly") is distinct from a CVX vector Land Class Poly.

Regarding changes to Altitude of CVX vector vertices, that is done via:

Select poly-lines of Polygons (Vertices display Green) > Right-click > Properties > SBuilderX - Polygon Properties dialog > {General} tab.


You must distinguish between Altitude changes made to the entire Polygon (Constant) versus individual Vertex points (Variable).

Change polygon surface Altitude of a water body or island: use Constant.

Change polygon surface Altitude(s) of a sloped Hill side or access road on a Hill side: use Variable.


GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

I'm trying to use a custom land texture over a certain area, I colored the texture a reddish (mars-like) color and want to overlay that over a few areas. I'm going to leave the altitude of the hills alone for now, I'll experiment with them later. I want to get the textured polys working first. I want to add some "color" to the land to give it that "alien" look. I just can't get the textured polys to show, they compile ok with no errors, I copy the .BGL textured file into my addon/scenery folder, I copied the texture file into the addon/texture folder, FSX shows its updating scenery, but it don't show up for some reason. Am I doing something wrong, or am I not doing something period? Oh, which SHP file has the actual polys in it? I know which ones have vectors in it, and I know which one has my water polys, but which one has my land polys in it? I load up each shp file depending on what it is I'm making changes to, if I try to load all of them at once, it gets too crowded and I can't tell what I'm working on. Doing them one at a time makes editing a lot easier.

 

[Tomt478]

One more thing, how can I change the "units" measurements in SBX from meters to Feet? I can't find where you change that.

 

[GaryGB]

One more thing, how can I change the "units" measurements in SBX from meters to Feet? I can't find where you change that.

Edit the SBuilderX.Ini file:

SBuilderX Menu > Edit > Edit INI File ... > SBuilderX.ini file opens in NotePad > MeasuringMeters=False > Save > [Exit]


NOTE: SBuilderX.Ini file parameter settings are documented in:

SBuilderX Menu > Help > {Content} tab > SBuilderX Reference > SBuilderX Appendix > Appendix - INI File Entries

​

I'm trying to use a custom land texture over a certain area, I colored the texture a reddish (mars-like) color and want to overlay that over a few areas. I'm going to leave the altitude of the hills alone for now, I'll experiment with them later. I want to get the textured polys working first. I want to add some "color" to the land to give it that "alien" look. I just can't get the textured polys to show, they compile ok with no errors,

I copy the .BGL textured file into my addon/scenery folder, I copied the texture file into the addon/texture folder, FSX shows its updating scenery, but it don't show up for some reason.

Am I doing something wrong, or am I not doing something period?

As explained previously, there are benefits to creating a unique folder chain inside the FSX Add on Scenery folder chain.

We want to have a unique folder chain inside the FSX Add on Scenery folder chain that is linked in Scenery Library via Add Area.

Note that Scenery Library has a numeric "Priority" associated with each entry in the 'stack' of (folder chain linked) Area Layers.


Although (very) few here may disagree, I believe ACES intended Add on Scenery folder chain to be a "default" low priority layer.

FS "default" layers are AFAIK, purposely intend to load early as low priority layers, with successive linked layers displayed on top.

Therefore, a layer that loads later (on top) means a higher display priority, and in most types of objects, that means it renders.


FYI: There are exceptions to this general rule involving terrain and spawn Altitude for A.I. Traffic and user flights at airports etc..


For organization purposes it is OK to have a unique folder chain inside FSX' Add on Scenery folder chain as it has its own layer.

Thus, I recommend not dropping BGLs into Add on Scenery\Scenery, or textures into Add on Scenery\Texture ...sub-folders.

Position Area Layers for linked folder chains located inside the FSX' Add on Scenery folder chain at the top of Scenery Library.


Please refer to the diagram and explanation of this process posted here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...mountain-using-ade-for-fsx.459364/post-931219

Oh, which SHP file has the actual polys in it?

I know which ones have vectors in it, and I know which one has my water polys, but which one has my land polys in it?

FLX = Flatten X ('X' = FSX CVX vector type)

HLX = Hydro Line X (Lines with defined widths that are mapped at run time with repeating / tiling textures side-by-side / end-to-end)

HPX = Hydro Poly X

PKX = Park Poly X (this type is also sometimes required for making special 'hybrid' CVX excludes)

RDX = Road X (Lines with defined widths that are mapped at run time with repeating / tiling textures side-by-side and end-to-end)

I load up each shp file depending on what it is I'm making changes to, if I try to load all of them at once, it gets too crowded and I can't tell what I'm working on. Doing them one at a time makes editing a lot easier.

That is a good approach to take when testing / troubleshooting as well.

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

So my land polys would be in the PKX file? Or would it be in the FLX file. Which one would I use to edit the altitude of the land polys? There is one other file I see it's the STX file, what is that one?

 

[GaryGB]

So my land polys would be in the PKX file?

Or would it be in the FLX file ?

Which one would I use to edit the altitude of the land polys?

There is one other file I see it's the STX file, what is that one?

Please indicate which "land" (aka 'non-hydro' ?) poly ...you want to work with first.


You can get this info by following the steps I outlined for you here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...mountain-using-ade-for-fsx.459364/post-931634


You can also get this info by following the steps I outlined for you previously:

* Load the CVX vector BGL into SDK TMFViewer

* Right-click the vector object in question and select "Identify Vector Features"

* Look up the GUID here:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/p...msdn.10)?redirectedfrom=MSDN#the-shp2vec-tool

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/microsoft-esp/cc526968(v=msdn.10)

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/microsoft-esp/cc526968(v=msdn.10)


For more info on attributes for the CVX vector object and its "texture" type, look up the GUID in [FSX install path]\Terrain.Cfg

As for FLX CVX *.SHP files, be aware that a GUID for an airfield background ("AB") flatten most commonly used is a hybrid type.

Flatten, Exclude Autogen, MaskClassMap = (3) attributes


MaskClassMap = displays a land class type without default Autogen annotation, that is compatible with local terrain attributes.


BTW: with 'BIG' AB Flattens in your scenery, you may instead want to use 'special' textured polygons with a different AB poly:

Airport_Backgrounds_Flatten_ExcludeAutoGen {18580A63-FC8F-4A02-A622-8A1E073E627B}, so it does not 'map' a texture.


GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

I did change the AB to flatten_Exclude_Autogen. It didn't help any, same problem. As I said earlier (in the other thread) I will probably remove the island and start over with a completely new spot of land. I just don't think it is possible with the current configuration of the island to get it to do what I want it to do. Either because of the flatten or simply because the vectors are so messed up. I just don't think it's going to work with the island as it is right now. So removing it and starting over might just be the best move instead of trying to "fix" things as they are. Right now, that project is completely on permanent hold, I want to work on the textured poly problem right now and get the rest of the land looking the way i want it. Then I'll worry about the mountain problem last. I'm just not ready or knowledgeable enough to undertake that project right now.

 

[Bavarello]

One more thing, how can I change the "units" measurements in SBX from meters to Feet? I can't find where you change that.

SBuilder.ini ....In the folder where the program is installed.