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0.0.78

tgibson

tgibson

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Hi Don,

Lines seem to work fine in 0.0.078, but now when I switch to polygons I am having trouble.

1. Create a GP polygon in ADE (mine was a 5 sided polygon with a concave side).

2. Assign a texture (I used Red Crosshatch).

3. Now I cannot select any vertices and thus cannot move nor resize them.

Same problem when I try to edit the polygon.

Hope this helps,
 
Can't duplicate, Tom. Poly's work normally for me - new and existing.

Anything unique about your airport?

Don
 
Thumbs up Don, the triangulation problem is nearly solved (I have detected only one corrupted triangle (I will send you screenshots by Email).

v0.0.78 still generates the message about object too complex, polygons must not intersect.

Best regards
 
the triangulation problem is nearly solved (I have detected only one corrupted triangle (I will send you screenshots by Email).
Click to expand...
Jacques, 0.0.79 get's rid of that extraneous poly and doesn't seem to have introduced any others. (I found an "and" in one of the triangulations routine that should have been an "or".)

v0.0.78 still generates the message about object too complex, polygons must not intersect.
Click to expand...
You indicated in the e-mail that you had edited the airport after sending it to me. While I've reinstated the "too complex" warning, it should now only be triggered by real problems. I do not get that message when I compile the version of your airport I now have. Please check you edits to ensure the warning is not legitimate. Should you not find a cause, please send me the edited airport.

Lines seem to work fine in 0.0.078, but now when I switch to polygons I am having trouble.
Click to expand...
Tom, as previously reported, I am unable to duplicate. I've not done anything in quite a while that should impact polys. However, in the latest release (0.0.79), I've loosened the selection area a little so you don't have to be quite as precise.

Don
 
When I duplicate lines (copy-paste) with v. 0.0.79, they do not appear in FSX. (I have tried to duplicate a yellow arrow on the stopway).

I have duplicated the arrows on the opposite stopway with a previous release of GP Editor and this problem did not occurs.
 
I've just tried to duplicate what happened and it doesn't do it anymore for me either. Chalk it up to a gremlin...
 
When I duplicate lines (copy-paste) with v. 0.0.79, they do not appear in FSX. (I have tried to duplicate a yellow arrow on the stopway).
Click to expand...
Jacques, it's "a long way" between you copying and pasting a line and its display in FSX.

Please try it again - copy and past but nothing else. But, this time, if the new line doesn't appear in FSX, please check to see if you can edit the line in the GP Editor and if, following the edit, the line appears in FSX.

Generally, its a good idea with patterned line to always open them in the editor prior to compiling. A simple copy and paste should have been OK. But, if you moved, added or deleted any individual vertices, you must go to the editor for the latter changes to be recognized. (We discovered that late last week, so its not yet noted in the user manual.)

Don
 
gadgets said:
Jacques, it's "a long way" between you copying and pasting a line and its display in FSX.

Please try it again - copy and past but nothing else. But, this time, if the new line doesn't appear in FSX, please check to see if you can edit the line in the GP Editor and if, following the edit, the line appears in FSX.

Generally, its a good idea with patterned line to always open them in the editor prior to compiling. A simple copy and paste should have been OK. But, if you moved, added or deleted any individual vertices, you must go to the editor for the latter changes to be recognized. (We discovered that late last week, so its not yet noted in the user manual.)



Don
Click to expand...

Don,

I have done what you say for a second time (I have already tested these actions before posting). I can edit the copied line, re-select the texture, move the vertex, but copied lines doesn't appear after compiling. If I create a new line, it's OK.

I even wandered if it has anything to do with the message about object too complex ...)

I have closely search polygons that intersect but I cannot find any.
 
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I have done what you say for a second time (I have already tested these actions before posting).
Click to expand...
I was curious about whether or not editing the line made any difference. You did not make any reference to this in your earlier post. (There had been an earlier problem in ADE whereby copied lines were not sent to the ADE_GP compiler. I wanted to be sure you weren't experiencing that problem.)

This is a new problem. In fact, the copied line is being drawn - directly on top of its source line. I made a change last week to preserve the line type across edits and, obviously, I preserved too much. I'll re-release later today. In the meantime, if you move one of the vertices of the copied line slightly, go to the GP editor and re-save, FSX will draw the line in its proper place.

Don
 
gadgets said:
I was curious about whether or not editing the line made any difference. You did not make any reference to this in your earlier post. (There had been an earlier problem in ADE whereby copied lines were not sent to the ADE_GP compiler. I wanted to be sure you weren't experiencing that problem.)

This is a new problem. In fact, the copied line is being drawn - directly on top of its source line. I made a change last week to preserve the line type across edits and, obviously, I preserved too much. I'll re-release later today. In the meantime, if you move one of the vertices of the copied line slightly, go to the GP editor and re-save, FSX will draw the line in its proper place.

Don
Click to expand...

Yes, this trick does the job
 
One more thing, if I delete all my polys (checked with the list) and compile I still get the message :

"object is too complex and cannot be triangulated. (Polygon sides must not intersect.)"

However, the program compiles normally.

Don, do you think that I have to do this test with the lines too ?
 
One more thing, if I delete all my polys (checked with the list) and compile I still get the message :

"object is too complex and cannot be triangulated. (Polygon sides must not intersect.)"

However, the program compiles normally.

Don, do you think that I have to do this test with the lines too ?
Click to expand...
By the time the file gets to the compiler, lines are just a series of adjacent polys and are subject to the same constraints.

Over the past couple of days, I have spent most of my time investigating why certain objects trigger this warning even though their sides clearly do not overlap. I have now discovered the reason - calculation precision.

Triangulation is a complex mathematical process. Results of one computation are used in further computations. Precision is lost each time. For example, when a side of a poly is horizontal or vertical, I'm looking for a sine or cosine of its orientation equal to 0 or 1. But, what is intended to be exactly horizontal or vertical to the eye is often not quite so after several calculation iterations. So, instead of checking for 0, you've got to check for, say -0.001<=n<=0.001. But, it's even worse than that! Allowing for 0.001 in one check may (did) lead to further problems "downstream".

Due to the need to split large objects into 100m chunks for use in FSX, there is a preponderance of horizontal and vertical edges in large objects when it comes time to triangulate.

I have added (in the next release) what appears to be suitable boundary conditions to the necessary calculations The magnitude of the boundaries was set from experimentation. The current set results in no errors in the version of your file that I have. But, I am quite certain that some other complex airport may not compile so successfully. Indeed, complexity doesn't seem to be the criteria.

Since I can't guarantee that every object will triangulate, to help users know what's wrong when an object won't triangulate, I now include in the "too complex" message the lat/lon boundaries of the offending object.

While the boundary conditions may benefit from further tweaking, I suspect in most cases, I'd simply be moving the problem to a different object. So, I'm going to quit now that I've introduced some tolerance into the algorithm - unless, of course, it is shown that the current boundary conditions are problematic.

Don
 
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