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ADE 9X taxi routes issue

D

DeepSpace

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israel
Hi all. I'm trying to edit an airport which has unrealistic taxi routes given by ATC; i.e, when at gate, ATC will order to taxi via the opposite runway (backtracking) instead of taxing on the taxi way. So I open up the airport in ADE (it's an add-on airport, so I'm importing the bgl and then re-compiling, if that makes a difference).

First thing I tried was "closing" the taxipath on the runway itself. That didn't work, so then I deleted the taxipath (there is nothing on the runway now in ADE). But still, ATC persists it makes more sense to taxi on the opposite runway and messing the traffic flow at the airport rather than simply taxing on the taxi way.

Sorry if the post didn't make sense and I'd be glad to post screenshots from ADE if that would be necessary.
 
Yes a few screen shots would help to visually see what might work better. Closing a taxiway is not honored by ATC. You have to break a taxiway link somewhere to stop ATC from using that taxiway.
 
jvile said:
You have to break a taxiway link somewhere to stop ATC from using that taxiway.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. I'm afraid that would be a problem, since that taxi way is being used for another runway. I hope these screenshots will clear things up.

#1 screenshot:
ATC will tell any aircraft in the gates to taxi to RWY 26 via taxi ways M and K and RWY 08, which will obviously mess traffic flow and will cause a lot of go arounds. Aircraft that land on RWY 26 are directed ok to the gates view K and M. The taxi route from the gates to RWY that I would like to achieve is shown in blue in screenshot #2.

As you can see, I totally deleted the black runway taxipath on RWY 08/26 but ATC still assigns it as a taxi route to RWY 26.

I hope it's all clear now and many thanks for the help.
 

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Things I would try:

1. It appears that the blue path has to travel over a short length of runway 3/21. Instead make the blue path cross over runway 3/21 without joining with it (there can be a spur route to the runway from that blue path though). That might increase its priority.

2. Do the same thing where the blue path crosses the end of runway 30 - make sure there is a path that doesn't include (or even touches) a black runway taxiway.

Hope this helps,
 
tgibson said:
Things I would try:

1. It appears that the blue path has to travel over a short length of runway 3/21. Instead make the blue path cross over runway 3/21 without joining with it (there can be a spur route to the runway from that blue path though). That might increase its priority.

2. Do the same thing where the blue path crosses the end of runway 30 - make sure there is a path that doesn't include (or even touches) a black runway taxiway.

Hope this helps,
Click to expand...

1. The blue "path" in the second shot is something that I drew in photoshop, It's not the blue path in ADE. That blue line is crossing RWY 12/30 and going through the whole length of RWY 03/21 (which isn't being used and also in ADE it is set as "NO" both for takeoffs and landings).

2. In that spot the nodes are actually connected.

Should I recreate all the green "apron links" as blue "taxi links"?

Edit: I tried that, and still, ATC requests to taxi to RWY 26 via RWY 08... I start to think it's never going to change.
 
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You say this is an addon airport. If it is not a real airport, I would think about dumping the current taxiway system in favor of one that has exits along each runway. See KAPA for ideas on how to do this. I think that if an airport has three runways, especialy if they don't really overlap, than having to use a runway to taxi on is not productive.

Bob
 
bobbyjack said:
You say this is an addon airport. If it is not a real airport, I would think about dumping the current taxiway system in favor of one that has exits along each runway. See KAPA for ideas on how to do this. I think that if an airport has three runways, especialy if they don't really overlap, than having to use a runway to taxi on is not productive.

Bob
Click to expand...

It is a real airport (LLBG). That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid (taxing on runway 08). Runway 03/21 is not in use for takeoffs or landing and is only used as a taxiway to runway 26.
 
Hi,

I hope I'm not somehow missing the point, but this is what I would do:

Change the short runway's black runway links to apron or normal taxiway links (you may need to adjust the width and other settings a little to make it look right). This will make that route a priority over the unwanted runway backtrack route, as FS will always prefer to send aircraft along taxiways instead of runways. As the short runway is never going to be used for taking off or landing, you don't need to have any black runway links here and taxiway links will suffice. After all, this route is used as a taxiway in real life, too.

However, you do need runway links along the main runway, so make sure you re-add them. Further, it seems like you could have more than one AFCAD/AFX/ADE/etc AFD file for this airport: you say that you deleted the runway links, but the aircraft still taxi along the runway. AFAIK, this is not possible, unless you have another file active. You also say you're importing the airfield from a bgl, then recompiling. This leads me to thinking that your original bgl (or some rogue copy of it) is still active.

HTH

Dan
 
Hi Dan, I double checked and there is no other AFCAD file in effect. I tried what you suggested and now ATC ignores runway 26 and send all aircraft to takeoff from runway 30 (at least through the right taxi route...)

I'm becoming more and more hopeless..
 
I did this airport for someone once - let me see if I can find it.

I remember that I setup crosswind runways because takeoff on Rwy 26 was impossible to create without the huge back taxi.

Setting up crosswind runways makes 12/30 closer to the parking than the other runways.

The best performance I achieved was landings on Rwy 26 and takeoffs Rwy 30.

I had to tweak the runway and taxiway junction so that the two runways were not connected by link lines. That involved adding a taxiway to connect to the Rwy 12 end without crossing onto Rwy 8.

Also Rwy 10/26 is sub-optimal for landings of AI aircraft. Too long without any exits.
 
DeepSpace said:
Hi Dan, I double checked and there is no other AFCAD file in effect. I tried what you suggested and now ATC ignores runway 26 and send all aircraft to takeoff from runway 30 (at least through the right taxi route...)

I'm becoming more and more hopeless..
Click to expand...

This might be because when you delete the runway links of a runway, you then need to check that all the runway links are correctly named. But I can't be certain. Sorry...
 
You could have your work cut out for you.

Are you in FS9 or FSX? I have looked at LLBG in both sims. I looks like your afcad is the result of someone taking the FS9 version and up dating it. Taxiways are a bit of a mess.
Here is the FSX version....
 

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rfields said:
I did this airport for someone once - let me see if I can find it.

I remember that I setup crosswind runways because takeoff on Rwy 26 was impossible to create without the huge back taxi.

Setting up crosswind runways makes 12/30 closer to the parking than the other runways.

The best performance I achieved was landings on Rwy 26 and takeoffs Rwy 30.

I had to tweak the runway and taxiway junction so that the two runways were not connected by link lines. That involved adding a taxiway to connect to the Rwy 12 end without crossing onto Rwy 8.

Also Rwy 10/26 is sub-optimal for landings of AI aircraft. Too long without any exits.
Click to expand...

I see. So no way of solving the problem without adding the fictitious bypassing taxiway?

danfoster said:
This might be because when you delete the runway links of a runway, you then need to check that all the runway links are correctly named. But I can't be certain. Sorry...
Click to expand...

I'll go again over the taxiways' names and designations, thanks.

bobbyjack said:
You could have your work cut out for you.

Are you in FS9 or FSX? I have looked at LLBG in both sims. I looks like your afcad is the result of someone taking the FS9 version and up dating it. Taxiways are a bit of a mess.
Here is the FSX version....
Click to expand...

You are actually right. Which scenery version is it? I'm correctly using the Ben Gurion 2006 scenery for FS9, with an update patch made for it to work ok under FSX (it improves FPS which are known to drop while using scenery designed for FS9 in FSX).
 
If you install an FS2004 scenery updated for FSX, it is best to redo the airport parking and such starting from the FSX default airport with ADE.

Updating always causes issues/ problems.
 
DeepSpace said:
I see. So no way of solving the problem without adding the fictitious bypassing taxiway?
Click to expand...

FS has certain rules it uses to control AI aircraft. No amount of changes to the airport layout except for a water pipe diagram can alter those rules. There are many airports in the world where realistic operational configurations are simply not possible under the FS rules.

It is a computer program - some things it does well and some it does very poorly.

Among the rules which we must consider are:
1) Active Runway
2) Parallel Runways
3) Aircraft weight and runway length selection
4) Nearest Runway for Takeoff
5) Shortest Taxi Route
 
Don't have the scenery but I took the default airport and got it to do the full runway 03 taxi the way it sounds like you want and which seems to be how they are doing it in the real world. (Had to disconnect the military ramp area, but that could be reconnected visually using aprons and/or unconnected taxiways.)

So try this file:
http://www.2shared.com/file/9626968/60d2816e/LLBG_ADEX_HC.html
(Would have attached it, but don't have the space due to a file I uploaded for a different thread.)
 
EdrickV, thanks a lot, but is says on the website the file is not valid. Could you perhaps upload it somewhere else? maybe rapidshare?
 
EdrickV said:
Weird, I wonder what happened to the file. It's not like it was a really big file or anything. In any event I uploaded it here:
http://rapidshare.com/files/315495036/LLBG_ADEX_HC.rar.html
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. Installed it and will give it a go for a few days... Up to now I've done a few runs but no matter what wind direction I used ATC used runway 12 for takeoffs. I will continue to use it and see if runway 26 is ever used.

EDIT: it works! ATC now direct aircraft to runway 26 via M K L U N runway 3... thanks a lot! I wonder if I disconnect the military apron in the problematic scenery the problem will be solved there as well?
 
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I just set the wind to a light wind at 260 degrees and that made 26 the active.

One of the things I've learned about the ATC system in FlightSim is that when directing you to a runway it will try to get you as close to the end of the runway as possible. That is useful in creating drive-through parking. I'll attach a screenshot from a seaplane base (Lake Hood) I setup for AI traffic and drive-through parking. The green lines are for exiting the runway, the blue lines are for going to the runway.
 

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