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AI flight sliding off runway on takeoff.

OleGreyGhost

OleGreyGhost

Messages
45
Country
unitedstates
I recently created a flightplan using an AIM ERJ135 jet by AI Malcontent in FSX & the FDE by David Rawlins. Two a/c taking off together from KMDT. Everything was going according to schedule. Both planes left the gate on time & taxied to runway 31. First plane started to take off, when halfway down the runway you saw a cloud of white tire smoke with the plane skidding off the runway into the river. United crash.png Smoke started at nose wheel, then from the main landing gear. (s/s att.)

I understand this model is for FS2004 but I would like to retain it for its accuracy to the airline livery & airport schedule.

Is it possible to correct the problem by adjusting the contact points (listed below) from the aircraft.cfg file.

[contact_points]
static_pitch = -0.4
static_cg_height = 5.6
tailwheel_lock = 0
gear_system_type = 0
max_number_of_points = 7

point.0 = 1, -6.1000, 0.00, -5.65, 1181.1, 0, 0.635, 46.8, 0.42, 2.5, 0.588, 10, 10, 0, 0, 0
point.1 = 1, -32.4555, -4.75, -5.90, 1574.8, 1, 1.1, 0.0, 0.48, 2.5, 0.546, 9, 9, 2, 0, 0
point.2 = 1, -32.4555, 4.75, -5.90, 1574.8, 2, 1.1, 0.0, 0.48, 2.5, 0.546, 9, 9, 3, 0, 0
point.3 = 2, -37.8300, -23.92, -3.00, 787.4, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.000, 0, 0, 5, 0, 0
point.4 = 2, -37.8300, 23.92, -3.00, 787.4, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.000, 0, 0, 6, 0, 0
point.5 = 2, -57.1700, 0.00, 0.00, 787.4, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.000, 0, 0, 9, 0, 0
point.6 = 2, -11.4700, 0.00, -1.50, 787.4, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.000, 0, 0, 4, 0, 0

I read Roy Holmes' post from Dec of 2022 but have no idea how the info is applied. If someone could please explain which points are used & how to go about making the adjustments.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.....
 
I've seen similar symptoms in FS9 when there's a previous/default version of the runway "underneath/hidden by" the new scenery, but not actually de-activated by the new scenery.
The ai picks up on the older scenery and gets upset when it runs out of tarmac.
Have you tried a known FSX-compatible aircraft of similar performance in your traffic file, or alternatively, have you tried this aircraft at a different airfield, maybe a default scenery, with a longer runway?
 
@ Chris Eve,
The airport ids KMDT being upgraded by Matt Derr. He put in the new terminal & FBO buildings at the north end of the airport. Just scenery work from what I observed in ADE. As far as I know it is the original runway at KMDT. The runway is 10,000 feet so there is plenty of room. I have not touched the runway.
I have other traffic files using the Cessna Citation 2, Gulfstream 5 & a B717 plus some heavies. This is the first a/c to malfunction at this airport.
I will try your suggestion and test it on another default airport & also substitute the AIM ERJ145 in the plan.
I'll I'll let you know how I make out.
 
Ran the test on a default airport across the river KCXY with the exact same results. Thanks for the suggestions to try to resolve this problem.
Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction.
 
POI. I did some additional testing. Re-compiled the flight plan for FS9 with the AIM erj135 plane. As you can see, both planes start out from the gate at the proper time. fs9-erj ss.jpg (FS9 does not like FSX graphics)
They taxied out onto the runway. On the taxiway you could see the tire smoke from both planes. The first plane started down the runway & rotated onto its tail & continued that way the rest of the way down the runway.
At least I learned a lesson from this. Test the plane first & then do the repaints.
It's a shame to have to throw all that work away.
Take care....
 
OleGreyGhost said:
POI. I did some additional testing. Re-compiled the flight plan for FS9 with the AIM erj135 plane. As you can see, both planes start out from the gate at the proper time. View attachment 96872 (FS9 does not like FSX graphics)
They taxied out onto the runway. On the taxiway you could see the tire smoke from both planes. The first plane started down the runway & rotated onto its tail & continued that way the rest of the way down the runway.
At least I learned a lesson from this. Test the plane first & then do the repaints.
It's a shame to have to throw all that work away.
Take care....
Click to expand...
Don't consider it a total loss ... there are those who still use FS9 and might appreciate the repaints.
Maybe post them to one or more of the file libraries?
 
Thanks for the reply Chris. I thought of that. But like I said in my previous post, I recompiled the flight plan with that plane for FS9. Ran it in FS9 that has no add-ons with the same results. The flight dynamics do not work in either simulator.
I figured nobody replied because they could not get it to work either and/or do not have any interest in the plane. Doesn't make any sense to upload some repaints for broken software.
I'm looking for another erj-135 to try to keep with the authenticity of the schedule before going to a substitute. But this time I'll Make sure the plane takes off before making any repaints. I"ll keep trying......
 
OleGreyGhost said:
Thanks for the reply Chris. I thought of that. But like I said in my previous post, I recompiled the flight plan with that plane for FS9. Ran it in FS9 that has no add-ons with the same results. The flight dynamics do not work in either simulator.
I figured nobody replied because they could not get it to work either and/or do not have any interest in the plane. Doesn't make any sense to upload some repaints for broken software.
I'm looking for another erj-135 to try to keep with the authenticity of the schedule before going to a substitute. But this time I'll Make sure the plane takes off before making any repaints. I"ll keep trying......
Click to expand...
For ai purposes, it might be worthwhile "appropriating" a known good set of flight dynamics from a similar aircraft that does "behave itself" then adjusting the contact points and maybe the c-of-g so's your aircraft "looks right" as it moves around the airfield.
I tend to restrict my ai adjustments to smaller GA aircraft, so I've no experience with passenger jets, but it's surprising how many smaller aircraft report themselves as being a "Cessna 182" or such like ... it being obvious that the author has simply tailored pre-existing "known good" flight dynamics to their latest creation.
The "Just Flight Traffic 2005" package does include an Embraer ERJ ... just sayin' ;)
 
I did find another ERJ-135 by AIG. Only problem is it utilizes PBR textures which I am not familiar with. While testing I did observe the B2 gate jetway attach to an invisible plane which was confirmed by the airport schedule.
I compared the flight dynamics of the AIM & AIG models. There is a 100,000 lb weight difference.
This is the weight parameters of the AIM cfg:

[General]
atc_type=EMBRAER
atc_model=ERJ 135

// ACM V2.5
max_gross_weight = 150000
empty_weight = 50170

Embraer Lists the MTOW as 41,887 lbs.

This is the AIG spec:

[weight_and_balance]
max_gross_weight = 44092
empty_weight = 25355

Much closer to the RL spec. I"ll try the weight change from AIG to AIM first. Then I'll check out the "Just Flight" package. There is also the possibility there might be a paintkit and/or repaints for the AIG model.

As an aside, I did find a gorgeous flyable ERJ-135 by Open Sky. Still have a lot of options to try out....
 
Chris,
Did some more testing. Changing parameters didn't help. What I did notice is that the jetway does not deploy to the AIM plane. Yet the jetway deployed & connected to the invisible AIG plane. This, the large weight disparity & the different CG parameters leads me to believe that the FDE parameters in the config file are not the original parameters for this plane.

I downloaded the "Just Flight" package. It is one of those packages that you have to load everything. I prefer to pick & choose my own. Can you tell me what it will load & where plus which of the three packages, it is in ???
Thanks....
 
OleGreyGhost said:
Chris,
I downloaded the "Just Flight" package. It is one of those packages that you have to load everything. I prefer to pick & choose my own. Can you tell me what it will load & where plus which of the three packages, it is in ???
Thanks....
Click to expand...
Sorry ... it was some time ago since I installed the software and I would have probably installed it into either a "dummy" folder or into a temporary installation from where I grabbed what I wanted. I don't remember "three packages".
As I recall, there's a bunch of aircraft, (obviously), all conveniently named with a 'JFAI' prefix so's they're easy to find, a folder of 'AFCADS' which are basically copies of default airfields with extra parking added (so they will line up with any default buildings etc.) and a little utility to generate a Traffic file containing just what you want.
The aircraft are quite nice as they can be configured as either "ai" or "flyable", so there's quite a lot of thought gone into the package.
 
Thanks for the reply. I resurrected an old P4 & installed it on that. the three packages are for 2002, 2004 & FSX. I found the erj-135. Not as detailed as the AIM model, but it does fly. Your memory is fairly accurate about the contents.
As far as the AIM model goes, I made a mistake assuming the huge weight difference was the problem. Somehow the developer uses the extra weight to balance the model for flight. He used the same weight disparity on some other models.
Am still working on getting it to fly. At least now it starts to rotate & lift the nose wheel before plowing into the tarmac.
Still got some options left.....
 
OleGreyGhost said:
Thanks for the reply. I resurrected an old P4 & installed it on that. the three packages are for 2002, 2004 & FSX. I found the erj-135. Not as detailed as the AIM model, but it does fly. Your memory is fairly accurate about the contents.
As far as the AIM model goes, I made a mistake assuming the huge weight difference was the problem. Somehow the developer uses the extra weight to balance the model for flight. He used the same weight disparity on some other models.
Am still working on getting it to fly. At least now it starts to rotate & lift the nose wheel before plowing into the tarmac.
Still got some options left.....
Click to expand...
Excellent :)
Just maybe ... you could "borrow" the flight dynamics (the .air file) from the Just Flight model and apply them to your preferred aircraft.
At least then you should have something that looks like what you want that actually flies ... probably just need a bit of tweaking of the contact points so's it doesn't look like it's "floating" or sunk into the tarmac.
 
Your post just might have woke up my little gray cells, the few that I have left. It seems I borrowed the parameters from the ".cfg" file which showed some improvement. Now maybe combining it with the ".air" file, It just might work.
It's late now, I'll let you know how I made out after I get some rest......
 
I often find that skittish aircraft have MOI values set too low in the aircraft.cfg file. Look at similar planes that work well as a start.
 
Thanks for that Tom. I noticed that with the AIM erj145 & the 145xr. Almost the same values.
I made so many changes that I figured to start over with a fresh install. Changed out the airfile & tweaked the matching points of contact plus some others & this is what I goterj 135.jpg. Success.
This is the second UAL plane taking off a couple of minutes after the first. Now all I have to do is adjust the jetways.
Once I get the skins to the way I like them you'll find the on AvSim & flightsim.
Thanks again Chris. Couldn't have done it without you. Much appreciated....
 
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