Airport Timetable Not Correct

[allatpen]

Hello.

In AIFP3 (latest version), at Alicante Airport I asked AIFP3 to display a time for that airport. What came out was absolutely nothing like what was on the ground at the airport. Aircraft which were on the groud not in timetable and vice versa.

Any ideas?

Allan

 

[gadgets]

Allan, we're not going to "play on this merry-go-round" again. Please post a copy of the .bgl traffic file or of each text file in the file set, identify which airport/flight is of concern and be specific as to what you see as the issue. I will attempt to duplicate the issue.

 

[tgibson]

Are you sure you had matching time zones? It's safest to use GMT for both AIFP and FS.

Also check the date using a tool like the Traffic Toolbox SDK Explorer, since when you enter a GMT time, FS may change the date one day forward or back, depending on the time offset to the local time. The date is based on the local time, not GMT.

 

[allatpen]

Let me deal with Don's reply first. I agree, Don, we don't want FS pingpong. I'll look through your message carefully and work out what I need to send. Watch this space.

And, Tom, I'll look into this, too.

Thank you both, and I'll get back to you.

Allan

 

[allatpen]

Tom, I created most of the flight plans myself, using Ttools system, and, in every case, created them using UTC. In AIFP3 I compiled them in UTC. And when I checked the timetable as created by AIFP3, the day wasn't relevant because the timetable didn't match the aircraft I had at Alicante no matter what day I looked at.
Work ib progress.

Allan

 

[gadgets]

Allan, are you still planning on sending the files to me?

Please note, it doesn't matter that you may have created the files using UTC. You select the time zone used for display in AIFP in the lower left hand corner of the AIFP Main Panel

 

[allatpen]

Yes, Don, I do. Just that it's been a hectic couple of days and this heat.........

Yes, Don, I insert UTC in that panel, too.

I'll get back with those files, maybe later.

Regards,

Allan

 

[allatpen]

Hello Don. The issue I have is that when I create a timetable (attached) for a specific airport (In this case, Alicante) and then go to Alicante in the sim, noting the time and date, none of the aircraft in the flight plan are showing at Alicante and none of the aircraft on the ground at Alicante show in the timetable

Here are all the files I think you're asking for and any that might support what I'm saying. If any fail to open let me know and I'll resend them in a different format.

Regards,

Allan

 

[gadgets]

I'm away from my development system at the moment, but I'll investigate tomorrow.

Incidentally, the fact that the timetable based on a file set doesn't agree with Flightsims's execution of one or more traffic files in the sim doesn't necessarily mean the timetable is wrong. If, for example, you have two traffic files in the sim with traffic to/from Alicante, the sim and the timetable may well disagree - since the sim is reflecting all the traffic while the timetable is reflecting only the file set under test. I suggest you check the traffic files in the sim to determine if this might be the cause of the disagreement.

 

[tgibson]

1. Took your Traffic_Alicante.bgl file and put it into my FSX/Addon Scenery/scenery folder (any active scenery folder is fine)
2. Changed my AI VIASA DC-8-52's title= line to British Airways A321-200 G-EUXK, which is your aircraft #1030
3. In your Flightplans file the first entry is for this aircraft, departing LEAL at 11:20 GMT.
4. Started FSX, went to my default LEAL, and set the time to 11:20 GMT.
5. The VIASA DC-8 was sitting there, and soon departed as expected.

So we can eliminate something wrong with your flight plan BGL file, it must be something else.

 

[tgibson]

BTW, you do realize that you posted the Aircraft_Malaga.txt file, while your traffic and flight plan files are for _Alicante?

 

[tgibson]

And when I load your flight plan file into AIFP, the Time Table shows that flight departing at 11:20 GMT, just as expected. Your text file timetable also shows it as expected.

 

[gadgets]

Not surprisingly, from a cursory inspection, I see nothing wrong with the data displayed in the timetable. The only thing I did notice is that if UTC time is selected (as is the case with you), not all flights show up in the initial time sequence. If you look towards the end if the listing, you'll see a second 24-hr sequence - for reasons not yet (but that will become ) clear. That being said, the timetable function is intended to be used with local time - which results in a single time sequence.

As for whether or not the aircraft are showing up where you expect them, that 's a different issue for which there are numerous possible causes and one that can only be investigated on your system. One such cause that does not appear to apply in this case is AIFP error. Tom has confirmed that the traffic file seems to generate the expected traffic. Also, I can tell you with a high degree of confidence that if AIFP's traffic file compiler was error prone, given the 12+ year existence of AIFP, I would have heard about it before now. Other possible causes are erroneous expectations, slider settings,, etc. and Ieave that to you. As I suggested earlier, perhaps you have multiple traffic files affecting Alicante.

Also, I asked you to be specific as to what you see as the issue. Again, all I got was generalities. Do you expect me to undertake a detailed analysis to try and find some undefined error? If you want further support on this issue, please provide specifics e.g. which particular flight (in the flightplan list of concern) is not being shown in the timetable and/or which flight(s) shown in the timetable are not among the flightplans.

 

[allatpen]

First of all, Don, it will take me a little time to assimilate everything you've said. Secondly, I thought I was being specific. However, Ill try to pin it down further.

And yes, I realise there was some confusion (it's an age thing) but it doesn't change the principle because I've tried the same exercise with Ibiza with the same results.
However, I'll go over what you've said and see if I can see anything happeneing which shouldn't be.

And I noticed the second listing.

However, Don, I'm failing to see the relevance of time zone. The flightplans are written in UTC, compiled in in UTC and when I go to an airport I check in UTC. What am I missing?

I'll get back to you later.

Regards,

Allan

 

[allatpen]

Hi Don. I've started to create a fresh flight plan from scratch and just a few aircraft. I'll get back to you as soon as I've tested it.

Allan

 

[gadgets]

I thought I was being specific.

Here's what you've offered me so far:

* What came out was absolutely nothing like what was on the ground at the airport. Aircraft which were on the groud not in timetable and vice versa.

* when I checked the timetable as created by AIFP3, the day wasn't relevant because the timetable didn't match the aircraft I had at Alicante no matter what day I looked at.

* The issue I have is that when I create a timetable (attached) for a specific airport (In this case, Alicante) and then go to Alicante in the sim, noting the time and date, none of the aircraft in the flight plan are showing at Alicante and none of the aircraft on the ground at Alicante show in the timetable

Not only are there no specifics in those offerings, but you are comparing two (claimed erroneous) derivatives of the flightplans rather than each derivative individually with the original flight plan data. I am quite certain neither derivative is erroneous. But, the only way to prove it, based on what you've said, would be to examine each and every leg in the flightplans and compare it with what you are seeing (which you haven't told us in any helpful manner) in the hopes of finding a discrepancy. That could take days. By "specific", I mean identify specific aircraft (from the flight plan data) at a specific location(s) at a specific time(s) that you consider erroneous. Tom has confirmed the validity of the flight plan. It's unlikely the timetable is in error since the only information in the app when the timetable is generated is the flightplan file of concern. Please remember, AIFP has been widely used and fully supported for over 10 years, Residual errors of such a dramatic nature in the compiler (which has been unchanged for years) or in the timetable function (which appears to operate satisfactorily for other users) seems unlikely. That leaves as possibilities the flightplan data (which AIFP should "flag" if not useable but which seems OK), user actions/expectations or interfering files/add-ons on the user's system such as an obsolete version of the traffic file of interest or another active traffic file that adds unexpected traffic.

I'm failing to see the relevance of time zone. The flightplans are written in UTC, compiled in in UTC and when I go to an airport I check in UTC. What am I missing?

Yes. that's all true. BUT, it doesn't matter, The times you see in AIFP - including the timetable - are based on whatever timezone the user has selected on AIFP's Main Panel. AIFP is accompanied by an 80-page used manual with a helpful table of contents. See the final paragraph of Section 3.1.

I've started to create a fresh flight plan from scratch and just a few aircraft. I'll get back to you as soon as I've tested it.

Not sure how this is helpful. If you would be specific as to the error(s) you see with Alicanti, I have no doubt we can determine the cause of the problems

(it's an age thing)

The "age card" doesn't get you any points with me. I'll be 80 on my next birthday.

You have entitled this thread "Airport Timetable Not Correct. Yet you have not offered a single fact to substantiate that claim. You can confirm the validity of the timetable by comparing suspected erroneous entries with the flightplan data. You can also easily check the validity of the traffic file yourself by loading it back into AIFP and comparing that data with the original data. You also need to understand that while departure times are exact, arrival times are only approximate. Then, if the aircraft don't show up on time, or those that do that show up in Flightsim don't match the flightplans, it's most likely you are looking at the wrong time or in the wrong place. There is a comprehensive troubleshooting guide at the end of the User Manual. As well, Traffic Toolbox Explorer can be quite helpful in sorting out apparently erroneous situation. While we're always happy to help, we do expect users to make a reasonable effort to first diagnose their own issues and then to give us enough information that we can either duplicate the situation on our own systems or know specifically what to look for.

 

[allatpen]

A lot to take in, but I'll spend some time reading it after dinner.

The reason for another flight plan is to make it small, ensuring there are no errors, and then work through the system. I've already test run it and will let you know the results later.

Thanks for your patience, Don.

Allan

 

[allatpen]

Hi Don,

I'm afraid I was getting a little bogged down, so I decided to take this fresh approach. I hope it will make my concerns clearer for you:

I created flightplans for Faro, with few aircraft there.


I created flightplans for Faro, with few aircraft there.
I compiled it using aircraft from other airports, then checked the timetable (attached). Everything was done in UTC.
I ran the sim and monitored the airport for 2 hrs between 10.30 and 12.30 (UTC).

To begin with I checked the aircraft on the ground. Then watched landings and takeoffs. Here’s what was there between 10.30 and 12.30:

Landed Departed



Jet2 G-LDAH On The Ground X 11.07
Easyjet G-EZUK On The Ground X 10.38
Monarch G-OZBH On The Ground X 10.40
Monarch G-OZBH On The Ground X 10.46
Globespan G-CDRA On The Ground X 11.04
Jet2 G-LDAH On The Ground X 11.07


Easyjet G-EZKD X 10.51 11.12
LTU D-ALTH X 10.37 11.25
Ryanair EI-DLJ X 11.12 11.48
Easyjet G-EZJK X 11.05 X
Corendon PH-CDD X 11.27 12.17
BA G-DOCX (DOCJ) X 11.39 X
Brussels A/L 00-SNA X 11.32 12.15
Flybe G-FBEB X 11.50 X
Swiss HB-ION X 11.42 12.17
Ryanair EI-DHD X 11.10 12.11
Easyjet G-EZIS X 11.21 X



The BA flight has 2 tail numbers. The label in flight identified it as G-DOCX but on checking the tail after landing it was G-DOCJ. This happened to a few, particularly the Easyjets. I don’t think it’s relevant with this problem but I thought I’d mention it.

Now, here are the aircraft I used in my newly created Faro flightplan:

AC#1002,470,"AIA B737-800 AEA_EC-HBN Travelplan"
AC#1017,470,"FAIB B737-800W Corendon Dutch Airlines PH-CDH"
AC#1027,470,"DJC A320-200 CFM Brussels Airlines OO-SNA"
AC#1043,450,"FAIB Airbus A319 CFM Vueling EC-JVE"
AC#2000,460,"DJC A321 CFM Swiss 'new colours' HB-ION"

And here are the flight plans:

AC#1017,PH-CDH,10%,24hr,IFR,09:55:00,11:35:00,370,F,1449,LPFR,12:05:00,13:45:00,320,F,1450,LEIB
AC#1043,EC-JVE,10%,24hr,IFR,10:05:00,11:45:00,370,F,1453,LPFR,12:15:00,13:55:00,320,F,1454,LEIB
AC#1002,EC-HBN,10%,24hr,IFR,09:50:00,11:30:00,370,F,1447,LPFR,12:00:00,13:40:00,320,F,1448,LEIB
AC#1027,OO-SNA,10%,24hr,IFR,10:00:00,11:40:00,370,F,1451,LPFR,12:10:00,13:50:00,320,F,1452,LEIB
AC#2000,HB-ION,10%,24hr,IFR,10:10:00,11:50:00,370,F,1455,LPFR,12:20:00,14:00:00,320,F,1456,LEIB


This was the Timetable created by AIFP3

ARRIVALS AND DEPARTURES FOR LPFR (FARO)

Arrivals

Time FN A/C Reg. From S M T W T F S

11:30 EUROPA 1447 EC-HBN LEIB x x x x x x x
11:35 CORENDON 1449 PH-CDH LEIB x x x x x x x
11:40 BEE-LINE 1451 OO-SNA LEIB x x x x x x x
11:45 VUELING 1453 EC-JVE LEIB x x x x x x x
11:50 SWISS 1455 HB-ION LEIB x x x x x x x

Departures
Time FN A/C Reg. To S M T W T F S

12:00 EUROPA 1448 EC-HBN LEIB x x x x x x x
12:05 CORENDON 1450 PH-CDH LEIB x x x x x x x
12:10 BEE-LINE 1452 OO-SNA LEIB x x x x x x x
12:15 VUELING 1454 EC-JVE LEIB x x x x x x x
12:20 SWISS 1456 HB-ION LEIB x x x x x x x

Vueling Aircraft Config

[fltsim.3]
title=FAIB Airbus A319 CFM Vueling EC-JVE
sim=FAIB_A319
model=CFM
texture=vueling jve
atc_id=EC-JVE
atc_airline=VUELING
atc_flight_number=7737
ui_manufacturer=Airbus
ui_type=A319
ui_variation=Vueling EC-JVE
ui_createdby=FAIB
description=For AI use only, :: Repaint by Philippe Tabatchnik.
atc_parking_types=GATE, RAMP
atc_parking_codes=VLG


The Vueling and Air Europa flights don’t show at the airport

Now, working through a number of previous posts I would like to refer to Tom’s post re his VIASA DC8.
By the same token, I used this Vueling A319 Reg EC-JVE. This does not show in my airport Faro, which is a default airport. My flight plan and the AIFP3 created Timetable both show the aircraft. I think this covers your comments regarding a specific flight. It shows in the Timetable, of course, but not at the airport. Maybe, Don, this is outside of your remit.

So far as specific flightplans are concerned, looking at the list above, let’s take the LTU D-ALTH which landed at 10.37 and departed at 11.25. Now this isn’t in the flightplan but is clearly in another flightplan, somewhere. Maybe WoA, for example. But this aircraft doesn’t show up in the Timetable.

Now maybe I’ve got this all wrong. Maybe the Timetable created in AIFP3 is only designed to include aircraft in flightplans compiled by AIFP3. I thought it was a “picture” of all aircraft at that particular airport. If it only includes aircraft in my created flightplans then we’ve been spitting in the wind and I apologise. Maybe you could confirm that, please Don.

Perhaps you could put me right on this, Don, before I go further. Because, if the Timetable does only show those aircraft shown in my created flightplans then everything else we’ve said is irrelevant, at this time, and I need to rethink.

And the reason I created a new set of flightplans for Faro was because I felt Alicante was getting a bit messy, and I thought a fresh set of plans would be easier to analyse.

I’ve stopped at this point, Don, until you clarify the above and also, maybe Faro will give you enough information.

Regards,

Allan

 

[allatpen]

My apologies for the lack of spacing. I separated everything into columns but when I posted it all the spaces had disappeared.

Allan

 

[gadgets]

The Vueling and Air Europa flights don’t show at the airport

When a traffic file works generally (as seems to be the case here) but specific aircraft don't show up anywhere, it's usually due to a problem with the aircraft. AIFP has no way of checking for issues with aircraft. If the aircraft.cfg file includes the title of an aircraft in the flight plan file, AIFP uses it. The simplest way to diagnose such issues is to substitute stock aircraft which you know for certain are OK. The Traffic Toolbox Explorer is also very useful in clarifying such situations.

looking at the list above, let’s take the LTU D-ALTH which landed at 10.37 and departed at 11.25. Now this isn’t in the flightplan but is clearly in another flightplan, somewhere. Maybe WoA, for example.

This would seem to confirm my earlier suggestion that multiple traffic files affecting the airport of interest are in use.

Now maybe I’ve got this all wrong. Maybe the Timetable created in AIFP3 is only designed to include aircraft in flightplans compiled by AIFP3. I thought it was a “picture” of all aircraft at that particular airport.

The timetable under the Flight Plans menu only displays aircraft/flights programmed in the flight plan file/set/traffic file loaded into AIFP. (This is clearly stated in Section 6.1 of the User Manual.) If you want to view traffic from multiple traffic files in a timetable you must use the Traffic and Parking Analyser . (This is what I meant by my earlier comment re unrealistic user expectations.)

My apologies for the lack of spacing. I separated everything into columns but when I posted it all the spaces had disappeared.

No apology needed. There was no need for me to load the new flight plans. The reasons for what you see as issues were easy to explain once you identified them. (In any case, none of these issues could have been duplicated on my system without installing all the aircraft you used and having all the traffic files active on your system also active on mine. )

As I have previously noted, AIFP is a widely-used, mature product. At this stage of it's life, it is unlikely to contain serious errors in its basic functions. (The issue you mentioned in your initial post a couple weeks ago was due in part to an oversight in AIFP. But, in all fairness, you had performed the highly-unusual action of commenting-out an aircraft in the aircraft text file - a situation, while prompting curiosity, was of no consequences in the subsequently-compiled traffic file. Also, as I have previously noted, while investigating statements in this thread, I also discovered that some legs are presented out-of-place in a second time-based sequence when a timetable uses GMT. Again, a curious, but inconsequential situation. However, both issues have been fixed in the current Development Release.) May I suggest that, in future, when you see something unexpected, you refer first to the User Manual - before declaring AIFP erroneous. If you do find it necessary to post about an issue, please include sufficient detail that we can reasonably discern specifics about what you consider erroneous. It has taken a week and 5 posts for me to elicit enough information from you to understand your concerns - all of which could have been explained by reference to the User Manual.