FSX Best roadmap for new model

[Heretic]

Do not worry about performance; you're not doing an AI model.
Even with all parts mapped on 3 textures with 2048² px each, your model will still have come out with just under 200 drawcalls. Cut down the amount of visible parts and you'll get a similar result for the VC model. This is a totally legit amount of drawcalls for a userspace aircraft.


Keep the texture mapping as repaint-friendly as possible since MSFS models live or die with their ease of paintability.

 

[SierraB]

Those are some good points there, Heretic. Thanks!
I think it will end in something like having one 1024^2 sheet for exterior and one for the interior (plus some other for the smaller, animated parts..) and putting these two textures also as a 2048^2 variant into the paintkit. This way everybody can choose the resolution/performance that suits him best.
Does this sound realistic?

Also, in my childish naivete, I still hope to get away with around 100 drawcalls overall, as my main focus is on functions and not eyecandy. I leave this for the artists of Cera and others So, yes, I'm counting every drawcall that I could save (might it be for the cost of some resolution here and there).

For example, I really like the awesome work of Jordan Moore on his Hovercontrol Bell 412. The model is incredibly simple made, but it feels just alright sitting in the VC! (Except all the missing switches, lighting etc, which is the reason I tried my hands on an own model.)

Greetings,
Steven

 

[Heretic]

I think it will end in something like having one 1024^2 sheet for exterior and one for the interior (plus some other for the smaller, animated parts..) and putting these two textures also as a 2048^2 variant into the paintkit. This way everybody can choose the resolution/performance that suits him best.
Does this sound realistic?

You can also go bonkers and offer a 4096 paintkit that users can resize as they see fit.

Also, in my childish naivete, I still hope to get away with around 100 drawcalls overall, as my main focus is on functions and not eyecandy. I leave this for the artists of Cera and others So, yes, I'm counting every drawcall that I could save (might it be for the cost of some resolution here and there).

I'm generally opposed to these HD-addicted rivet counters slithering around the MSFS community like a bunch of venomous snakes in the rain forest, but they do have a point: Exterior models are primarily for eye candy as exhibited by 90% of screenshots. Visual performance and functionality is a primary concern of the VC as the actual flying is done from there. So pull all the tricks you can for the interior model, but leave the exterior as easily repaintable as feasible.


Point in case: My 737-200 model. Exterior: ~38k polys, 200 drawcalls, 14 materials, of which 6 have 2048px textures. Interior: ~35k polys, 110 drawcalls, 12 materials with 4 2048px textures.

 

[SierraB]

Exterior models are primarily for eye candy as exhibited by 90% of screenshots. Visual performance and functionality is a primary concern of the VC as the actual flying is done from there.

True words there.

I'm only afraid this is good practice for bigger airplanes, where you can delete most of the fuselage from the VC model. But in helos the whole fuselage is much more tighter around the pilot's POV - so the main parts of the fuselage would still be there in the VC.

Let's see how far I will get with my plan...most probably there will be the next problems arising soon so I should just start and try

And if it won't come out as a perfectly repaint-able model, well, then it's the way it is. I might better attract people with realistic systems and flight dynamics then


PS:
Concerning structuring interior and exterior in Gmax..
I know it's probably not that a big issue in large planes as you can model the VC quite seperately from the exterior part. But generally spoken, how do you organize them? E.g. you have some parts in the cockpit that have different materials in exterior and interior model - do you have two instances of these parts then or..?
How do you keep track of in and out??

 

[Heretic]

I'm only afraid this is good practice for bigger airplanes, where you can delete most of the fuselage from the VC model. But in helos the whole fuselage is much more tighter around the pilot's POV - so the main parts of the fuselage would still be there in the VC.

But not every detail on the rotor hub and tail rotor.

And if it won't come out as a perfectly repaint-able model, well, then it's the way it is. I might better attract people with realistic systems and flight dynamics then

*Shudder*

Then again, the helo guys do seem to be a craftier bunch than fixed wing fliers. They might just help you out in those departments.

I know it's probably not that a big issue in large planes as you can model the VC quite seperately from the exterior part. But generally spoken, how do you organize them? E.g. you have some parts in the cockpit that have different materials in exterior and interior model - do you have two instances of these parts then or..?
How do you keep track of in and out??

1. Create exterior with low-poly stuff in cockpit area and low-res panel and overhead textures.
2. Make sure it looks like you want it to in FSX.
3. Copy .gmax file; rename to something with "interior"
4. Replace low-poly cockpit stuff with high poly cockpit stuff with high-res textures and animated gauges, etc...
5. Add details to cockpit.

 

[SierraB]

No intention to make you shudder, Heretic
After I will somewhen come up with a paintkit, I will be the first painter anyway so I'll see what a shrunk I created there

1. Create exterior with ...

Ok, I thought there would be some clever tticks with hierarchy or so.. So whenever I want to add some (animated) feature to the model, I'd need to add it to the exterior, merge it into the interior model, animate it two times?!

Another question: Does every object that generates a drawcall (because of material, animation, whatsoever) load the texture it is assigned to on its own? E.g. habmving two tiny animated wheels, both mapped on a 4096 sheet - this would load the texture two times, correct? So this would be unclever.

 

[n4gix]

Ok, I thought there would be some clever tticks with hierarchy or so.. So whenever I want to add some (animated) feature to the model, I'd need to add it to the exterior, merge it into the interior model, animate it two times?!

That last phrase is precisely why whenever possible I do not maintain separate exterior and interior models. It's just too much effort quite aside from being an avoidable point of failure...

Instead, I create two 'dummy nodes' (tiny, invisible polygons) that I name "exterior" and "interior", to which I Link all objects in the scene. I then make use of the Named Selection Sets to group objects in the scene for quick selection and Export Selected operations.

 

[johnman]

Hey Bill,

" I then make use of the Named Selection Sets to group objects in the scene for quick selection and Export Selected operations. "

Could You use Layers instead of Selection Sets ??

Johnman























































//

 

[n4gix]

Hey Bill,

" I then make use of the Named Selection Sets to group objects in the scene for quick selection and Export Selected operations. "

Could You use Layers instead of Selection Sets ??

GMax doesn't have the "Layers" option, so for that program no you cannot. While Max does have the "Layers" option, it does not have the flexibility of Named Selection Sets (NSS), since an object can be one and only one "Layer"...

Any object however may be "named" as a member of any number of NSS's as desired! For example the "wings" and "fuselage" mesh could be named as members of both the "exterior" ane "interior" selection sets. This way, one could "Hide" all objects, then Select by Set "exterior" to immediately 'unhide' only the members of that set for an "Export As" operation.

If one is using the "Layer" system however, one would have to manually choose which "Layers" to 'unhide' prior to an "Export As" operation.

Unfortunately the two different schemes do not "play well together" as any object that is a member of a NSS will 'unhide' all objects that are contained in the Layer to which it is assigned.

Both 'schemes' have their advantages and disadvantages, so one needs to try both and then determine which of the two one is going to use... then stick with it!

 

[hairyspin]

I find layers handy in the early stages, but named selection sets are far more useful once I'm exporting. It was Bill who put me on to them originally.

 

[Heretic]

Named Selections are useful, but I find that keeping separate GMax files at least keeps object count down in each file.

Ok, I thought there would be some clever tticks with hierarchy or so.. So whenever I want to add some (animated) feature to the model, I'd need to add it to the exterior, merge it into the interior model, animate it two times?!

Keyframes and visbility or mouserect tags are retained, IIRC. The only thing you have to do is retag any merged animations with the Animation Manager.

Another question: Does every object that generates a drawcall (because of material, animation, whatsoever) load the texture it is assigned to on its own? E.g. habmving two tiny animated wheels, both mapped on a 4096 sheet - this would load the texture two times, correct? So this would be unclever.

Apparently yes.
http://fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/animations-and-drawcalls.25607/#post-159700

It seems that you really have to use small bitmaps for animated parts. In your example case, you can perfectly well use a 128² px texture for the wheel and other repaint-independent objects (rotor hub texture, etc...).

 

[SierraB]

It seems that you really have to use small bitmaps for animated parts. In your example case, you can perfectly well use a 128² px texture for the wheel and other repaint-independent objects (rotor hub texture, etc...).

That's what I wanted to hear Thanks

Bill, thank you for the tip with the NSS!

Best regards,
Steven

 

[johnman]

Hey Bill,

Thanks for the Explanation on NSS - I'm going to have to go back to them - Just to check them out - and See what their advantages are !!

Johnman

 

[Milton_Shupe]

NSS's are useful in many ways especially when you get up over 700 to 800 parts. I use them as well for mapping groups of parts to a sheet where I may sometimes have 15-30 parts on the sheet. It just makes related part selection so much simpler. Establishing meaningful part hierarchies is essential to project and object management.

 

[lionheart]

GMax doesn't have the "Layers" option, so for that program no you cannot. While Max does have the "Layers" option, it does not have the flexibility of Named Selection Sets (NSS), since an object can be one and only one "Layer"...

Any object however may be "named" as a member of any number of NSS's as desired! For example the "wings" and "fuselage" mesh could be named as members of both the "exterior" ane "interior" selection sets. This way, one could "Hide" all objects, then Select by Set "exterior" to immediately 'unhide' only the members of that set for an "Export As" operation.

If one is using the "Layer" system however, one would have to manually choose which "Layers" to 'unhide' prior to an "Export As" operation.

Unfortunately the two different schemes do not "play well together" as any object that is a member of a NSS will 'unhide' all objects that are contained in the Layer to which it is assigned.

Both 'schemes' have their advantages and disadvantages, so one needs to try both and then determine which of the two one is going to use... then stick with it!

Interesting.... Thanks Bill.