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Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:
Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
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My first time using 3ds Max so I decided to make a 737. I spent this weekend working on the exterior and have a little done on the interior. This will be freeware with 2D panel and VC.
Both images are straight from 3ds Max with poly count. I am now working on properly modeling the engine.
Can someone also clarify that I'm modelling correctly. I have the fuselage as one object, left wing as one object etc. As well as in the cockpit Main panel one object, pedestal one object etc. I hope I've done it right... Also when I start making switches it's every switch as its own object I believe.
Thanks for the link, I'll add them in instead of the images I have now. I'm hoping to have this done by the end of the year as I have a lot of school work.
Been working on the 733 for a bit, the engine has been completely remodeled and cutouts for the passenger and cargo doors have been added, work on the fuselage is almost done with a few more edits required, next for the wings.
After a long break from the 737 I am back. I have remodeled almost everything as I was not happy with the old airplane. The new fuselage is around 4500 polys and the engine is over 1000, is this too many polys?
I am leaving the cockpit area for later as I am unsure on how to model it correctly, can anyone give me some insight on how to do it properly.
I am very happy with this engine, last time I just used a cylinder for the engine and fuselage now I am actually using splines so it will look real. Feedback is much appreciated
I have now added the wing and some more of the engine. I just mirrored the engines and wings to know what it looks like. Next I will start the stabilizer and rudder.
I have now added the wing and some more of the engine. I just mirrored the engines and wings to know what it looks like. Next I will start the stabilizer and rudder.
As for the cockpit area: Create some polygons for the windows, then create the window frames and then connect the whole stuff to the fuselage. Then fiddle around until it looks right.
As for the cockpit area: Create some polygons for the windows, then create the window frames and then connect the whole stuff to the fuselage. Then fiddle around until it looks right.
Tip : export your model to Flightsim and have a look every once you made such changes. As a GMax user, I know the basic mirror inverts polygons (in FS9) To get the mirroring right, parts has to be properly cloned then mirrored through the "Parametric Deformers" Menu.
The polycount doesn't really matter (FSX) but best is to keep it as low as possible for the amount of details/roundness you're happy with. Flat/linear/planar surfaces are good places to save polygons.
Anyway, you're the first you should please.
Just as I said, flat/planar surfaces like the cockpit are good places to save polygons. Actually, on the 737, "side windows" are flat and that surface expands slightly on the fuselage. Have a look at nose pictures of the 737. Most airliners aren't rounded around cockpit. This actually applies from the front cockpit windows to the nose radome cone. Tip : Draw the windshield outlines (the 6 windows panes as flat polygons : front-captain side, left #1 and left #2, then mirror) Include the windows frames while building this outline (you can cut the glass with boolean later) On the fuselage, delete the extra polygons between the windshield and the nose cone (top of nose fuselage) Then create polygons linking the windshield base to the fuselage, and you're done with the front part. On the side and bottom, extend the planar surface of the side windows until than plan meets the fuselage. Use boolean to get the intersections. Of course, you'll have "sharp" angles profiles. There's a tool to soften the edges. And you're done with the side. The roof (above cockpit) is a little tricky, but you can draw a few splines from one side (left) to the other (right) Create the polygons then merge with your cockpit. And you're done with the top. Create polygons to fill the gap between the aft side of the cockpit and the fuselage. Tweak vertices as needed to get the correct overall shape (by the way, move the center vertices to 0 in lateral offset, tweak a bit, then you can delete one side of the entire object. You make corrections on one side only, then clone, then mirror...)
Use close ups views to help you in getting the shape right.
I am very happy with this engine, last time I just used a cylinder for the engine and fuselage now I am actually using splines so it will look real. Feedback is much appreciated.
Tip : Every time you'll have to deal with moving parts (thrust reversers here) try to get the splines aligned with the cuts. This will help you reduce polygon usage, and get the shape correct from the start by comparing perspective views with actual photos. The 737 engine nacele is not an uniform ellipse along the longitudinal axis. It goes from circle to trapezoid/egg-like to ellipse to circle. Aligning splines with cuts and visible panels sections avoids cascading corrections later...
By the way, the technique above applies to wings/stabilizers (flaps, ailerons, spoilers, leading edge slats...) belly (landing gear bays and doors) etc.
For the wings especially : I see 4 obvious "cuts", and 2 others near the wingtip. Those are a hell to get right later. I would only use 4 splines to create the whole wing :
- #1 at the fuselage fairing.
- #2 on the passenger side of the engine pylon.
- #3 on the wingtip side of the engine pylon (I'll actualy only use the trailing part of that wing profile)
- #4 on the wingtip, excluding the navigation lights fairing (offset a bit towards the fuselage)
This will provide the overall shape of the wing. Then, use booleans to cuts ailerons, flaps, spoilers, leading edge slats and landing lights. However, before cutting anything, make sure you have an accurate dihedral. Again, try to align splines/polygon edges with cuts/animated parts.
Note 1 : flaps cuts are not aligned above and below wings.
Note 2 : Have a look at 737 classic wing profile.
Note 3 : Actually, the wing surface near the fuselage is not planar. Its thickness gradually increases the nearer you get towards the fuselage, and that's both the case on the upper and lower surface. There are different techniques to get that curved surface right. Example :
- use a thinner wing profile for the root, then cut the wing halfway between the engine pylon and the fuselage. Slightly scale the wingroot in Z axis. Repeat the process 2, 3 or 4 times...
- or use the initial wing root profile to create the wing, cut halfway between engine pylon and fuselage, then scale down a bit in Z axis at this cut. Repeat...
Tip : Liveries are Texture/Paintkit related. They can be done by anyone else. Without animated cargo doors and transparent windows, the basic (passenger) version would be enough.
However, with cargo doors and transparent windows/interiors, a massive amount of modeling/animating and texturing/mapping has to be done. That's feasible, but not easy. Just remember Project Opensky who has built models for years without attempting to model the complete interior of their aircraft. My advice is getting the whole basic (passenger) exterior model complete and mapped before thinking of passenger windows, interior and animated cargo doors. Fact is : windows placements are different between the passenger and cargo variant on the 737. A completed exterior model without any hole will help you figure out what are common between each variant, and what has to be produced separately.
Other hints :
The 737 has an external visible seam between passenger cabin and cargo below cabin. It starts right after L1/R1 doors towards aft and ends at the wingroot/belly fairing. Then you have another slight seam aft of belly fairing. This can be done 3D in the model or simulated on the texture. Your choice.
Another flat area : the stabilizers root (the picture is a NextGen, but it's the same on the classics, except APU exhaust and stabilizers/tail surfaces, obviously)
Wingtips : There are 3 types (or so) on the 737-300/400/500 :
- with logo light beam
- without logo light
- winglets
Versioning : or more accurately : progressive copies of modeling stages. I use this technique :
ModelName.xxx - 876kb <- the actual file I'm editing.
ModelName_20150424_1615.xxx - 122kb
ModelName_20150426_2210.xxx - 341kb
ModelName_20150426_2242.xxx - 582kb
ModelName_20150428_0655.xxx - 727kb
...
When you have lots of saved files, move the oldest ones to a "_Saves"-like sub directory. Activate the auto backup, and always save your source file each time you remember.
If you plan to do flexing wings... again, try to align the cuts with moving parts edges. As it's a flyable model, flexing wing components should not be below 4 (one fixed to the fuselage, 3 flexing, ie one pivot at the engine pylon, the secund halfway between engine pylon and aileron, and the third where the aileron starts. Cuts must be in one vertical plan to avoid polygon distorsion) You can add another from the trailing part of the engine pylon to the outer edge of the first outer leading edge flaps, this, making a diagonal bending, which is how the wings actually bends when lifted.
However, don't go through the mess of adding this feature if you're among those that don't really need this.
Why this much ? That's my way to help you avoid the same mistakes I made back then. I'm still modeling, but not much for FS; rather for scale modeling building (cross sections and cutouts) One thing I learned well is : try to get the most accurate hi-res drawings from the very begining ! Even for that passenger window outline. If you don't find them, create them, but carefull about perspective distorsion when you use actual photos. I have countless models thrown to the bin because of fat wings, wrong fuselage diameter, misplaced wings, etc. It's quicker to restart from zero than trying to fix a model in its advanced modeling stage.
Take your time to please yourself. Priorise your needs, but leave some room for further features to be added (you can load an old version of the "versioning" above to go on with another variant...)
Modeling and animating the exterior model : 2740 pts up to 3440 pts.
Accurate documents/Drawings/Profiles : 400
Scene layout in 3D Editor : 10
Exterior model : Fuselage+Wings+Stabilizers : 200 (or 300 if a complex nose/weird wings)
Engines and Engine pylons : 200
Cutting flat moving parts and vertex correction : Gear doors, flaps, ailerons, spoilers, stabilizers : 300
Cutting Leading edge flaps and animating them : 200 (translation/rotation in two axis, mirroring)
Building landing gears (not animated) : 200
Flexing wings cuts and vertex corrections (not animated) : 150
Building multislotted flaps and animating them + slats and animating them : 150 + 80
Animating landing gears (complete) : between 200 and 800 (MD11 : getting them right was a hell)
Animating small parts (spoilers, ailerons, thrust reversers, engine fans) : 150
Animating flexing wings : 200 (because of mirroring animations)
Linking animation trees : 30
Adding tiny bits (antennas, pitots, static dischargers...) : 150
Adding lights (nav/taxi/landing/etc.) : 120 (including corrections for Landing lights)
Mapping the model (yes, I only map when I have it fully modeled : 1200 pts.
Parts isolation for projections (use a cloned source file) : 100
Getting Textures Projections layouts : 300
ugly photopastes textures to start with : 100
mapping of each part : 700
Modeling the interior : cabin and cargo model : ~3160 pts (+5680... optional).
Accurate documents : 100 (up to 400)
Cabin, cockpit and cargo walls/floor/roof : 500 (because I have to follow fuselage curvature)
Cloisons (walls separating each section) : 70
Cutting doors (pax/cargo) : 20
Building doors interior (+ optionnal mecanism) : 150 (+150)
Animating doors : 100 (up to 250 with complex mecanism)
Cutting passenger windows : 100
Building windows panels, interior side : 400 (simple - up to 4000 for accurate design)
Building overhead luggage compartment : 100 (simple - up to 800 for detailed panels/design)
Building seats (one type then clone) : 120 (simple - up to 600 for accurate design)
^^ if you have multiple classes, repeat...
Building galleys : 300 (+300 with lavatory ? seriously ?)
Parts isolation for mapping projections (use a cloned source file) : 100
Getting Textures Projections layouts : 300
ugly photopastes textures to start with : 100
mapping of each part : 700
Modeling the interior : cockpit model : ~1210 pts (Opt1=+2100 - Opt2=+2200 - Opt3=+2000)
Cutting Windows : 60
Windows corrections : 150
Parts blocks : 100
Parts isolation for mapping projections (use a cloned source file) : 100
Getting Textures Projections layouts : 250
ugly photopastes textures to start with : 100
mapping of each part : 450
Option 1 : Advanced cockpit with 3D controls (animated) : 1400
Option 1 : Photopaste Textures and Mapping : 700
Option 2 : 3D screws and animated switches, buttons, etc. : 1500
Option 2 : Photopaste Textures and Mapping : 700
Option 3 : Virtual cockpit with default gauges : 2000
Option 4 : tiny details : ?
Captain and First officer : ?
Creating XML Animation parts : ~30 pts per custom animation.
Building usefull paintkit 2000 or 3000, and up to 9000 pts.
Exterior only - basic : 2000 (+3000 highly detailed)
Interior only - basic : ~1000 (+~3000 depending on the desired details)
Creating Flight dynamics : I don't know. I usually ask for help or use an already avaiable FDE set.
That's how I measure where am I on modeling stage. Depending on where you are focusing details, you may have different points values in terms of to do work. But this is what I've calculated so far (average)
According to the above, you are around :
- 33% of the exterior modeling.
- 0% for the interior.
- 0% for other parts (paintkit/FDE/external tweaks like XML coding, effects, 2D panel if any, etc.)
This is NOT to discourage you, on the contrary, this is made on purpose to give you an overview of the different steps in order to get your project completed. A lot of youg modelers give up because they thought modeling the exterior was the main and most difficult part of the modeling. Not that the other parts are more difficult, but they take as much time as building the exterior (if not more) to get done.
By the way, you can delegate paintkit production and other things to someone else (it's extremely rare to find someone that has done a project alone) But you have to do the modeling part on your own. Why ? Ever tried to edit a model source file ? The P38, or the Mooney ? => Hard isn't it ? You never know how/where to start with, because you didn't create the polygons yourself. Modeling is an art and you're the only one that knows the technique you used. It's almost impossible to get the same model wireframe from two different modelers even if they used the very same set of documents and the same 3D modeling tool.
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