FSX:SE Can I use the SDK Tools/Addons with FSX:SE?

#1
Alrighty, here's another question about scenery. (it seems that I fiddle around with scenery more than I do actual flying) MCX works great for exporting scenery files, buildings and structures and I cannot begin to thank the developers of it, since it is such an amazing tool that's helped me update FSX cities around the world. The only problem is that you have to convert/export each file individually which can get tiring after a while. HOWEVER, doing some research I found out about the Object Placement tool that comes built-in with the SDK, which literally lets you just plop buildings wherever you want. I...simply don't know if and how it can be used in FSX: Steam Edition. I have the SDK files in my FSX folder. I found this tutorial, and I don't know if I'm doing something wrong but it's not working. Can I even use it with SE at all?
 
#2
Hi Robert:

A quick Google search does not seem to turn up any definitive evidence that the (somewhat) unique coding of *.EXE and *.DLL files in FSX_ Steam Edition are fully compatible with SDK Object Placement Tool (aka "OPT").

IMHO, by the time you and any would-be helpers research and troubleshoot attempts to use either the FSX Deluxe or P3Dv1.4x SDK OPT with FSX: Steam Edition, it would have been a more satisfactory expenditure of time and would result in far more stable and full-featured functionality for you to have paid the mere $ 30 US
that it costs to purchase Instant Scenery version 3.x ...as has been recommended to you previously:

https://www.google.com/search?ei=tyP4W4CFJsKm_QaMnruoCQ&q=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+GaryGB+Robertium+Instant+Scenery&oq=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+GaryGB+Robertium+Instant+Scenery&gs_l=psy-ab.12...12456.16132..18358...0.0..0.87.1244.16......0....1..gws-wiz.SgKauzxMroA

IS3 works with FS9, FSX Deluxe / Acceleration / Gold / FSX: Steam Editions, as well as with P3D v 1.4x. / 2.x / 3.x.

https://www.simforums.com/forums/instant-scenery-3-instant-object-with-fsxse_topic53175.html

http://www.flight1.com/products.asp?product=iscen3


GaryGB
 
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#3
Hi Robert:

A quick Google search does not seem to turn up any definitive evidence that the (somewhat) unique coding of *.EXE and *.DLL files in FSX_ Steam Edition are fully compatible with SDK Object Placement Tool.

IMHO, by the time you and any would-be helpers research and troubleshoot attempts to use either the FSX Deluxe or P3Dv1.4x SDK OPT with FSX: Steam Edition, it would have been a more satisfactory expenditure of time and would result in far more stable and full-featured functionality for you to have paid the mere $ 30 US
that it costs to purchase Instant Scenery version 3.x /// as has been recommended to you previously:

https://www.google.com/search?ei=tyP4W4CFJsKm_QaMnruoCQ&q=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+GaryGB+Robertium+Instant+Scenery&oq=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+GaryGB+Robertium+Instant+Scenery&gs_l=psy-ab.12...12456.16132..18358...0.0..0.87.1244.16......0....1..gws-wiz.SgKauzxMroA

IS3 works with FS9, FSX Deluxe / Acceleration / Gold / FSX: Steam Editions, as well as with P3D v 1.4x. / 2.x / 3.x.

https://www.simforums.com/forums/instant-scenery-3-instant-object-with-fsxse_topic53175.html

http://www.flight1.com/products.asp?product=iscen3


GaryGB
Alright, fair enough. I'll see what I can do with IS3, it seems easy enough.
 
#4
That was quick. The link you gave me sent me to the webpage for it, and it gave me a .exe file to download in order to buy it. Right when I executed the program....
webroot is3.PNG
 
#5
While FSX:SE doesn't include the original FSX SDK, like the disc version(s) do, there IS an SDK download available that works very nicely with it.
It's the P3D SDK, v1.4.4747.0
You may download it right here at FSDeveloper, in the Resources section. Right here: https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/resources/prepar3d-v1-sdk.227/

It may be installed into the main FSX folder, and you'll have to add the various .dll's to your sim's DLL.XML file manually. After that, whatever you've added will show up in the ADD-ONS menu. Very nice set up.
I use several of the SDK's .DLL's, like the TrafficToolbox, or the Visualfxtool, just for example.

Hope this is of some help...
Pat☺
 
#6
Hi Robert:

Flight1 has done business on the internet for decades and AFAIK, is one of the most secure websites for E-commerce.

I believe you are getting a "false positive" from your security software scanner (...probabaly due to the fact that the executable has sophisticated code for running installation, registration, and live updater routines).

The direct link to the download is:

http://flight1.100megabyte.com/InstantScenery3.exe


If you prefer to try a IS3 demo for 30 days within 50 miles of KSEA airport, there is a separate download on that page:

http://flight1.100megabyte.com/instant_scenery3_7_demo.exe


PS: IS3 does not require FSUIPC or the FSX SDK for its 'primary' scenery library object placement functions.

GaryGB
 
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#7
While FSX:SE doesn't include the original FSX SDK, like the disc version(s) do, there IS an SDK download available that works very nicely with it.
It's the P3D SDK, v1.4.4747.0
You may download it right here at FSDeveloper, in the Resources section. Right here: https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/resources/prepar3d-v1-sdk.227/

It may be installed into the main FSX folder, and you'll have to add the various .dll's to your sim's DLL.XML file manually. After that, whatever you've added will show up in the ADD-ONS menu. Very nice set up.
I use several of the SDK's .DLL's, like the TrafficToolbox, or the Visualfxtool, just for example.

Hope this is of some help...
Pat☺
Hi Pat:

Have you personally tested whether FSX: Steam Edition is fully compatible with SDK Object Placement Tool (aka "OPT") as provided by P3D SDK, v1.4.4747.0 ? :scratchch


GaryGB
 
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#8
While FSX:SE doesn't include the original FSX SDK, like the disc version(s) do, there IS an SDK download available that works very nicely with it.
It's the P3D SDK, v1.4.4747.0
You may download it right here at FSDeveloper, in the Resources section. Right here: https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/resources/prepar3d-v1-sdk.227/

It may be installed into the main FSX folder, and you'll have to add the various .dll's to your sim's DLL.XML file manually. After that, whatever you've added will show up in the ADD-ONS menu. Very nice set up.
I use several of the SDK's .DLL's, like the TrafficToolbox, or the Visualfxtool, just for example.

Hope this is of some help...
Pat☺
As I said in the original post, there was a guide on Steam that showed how to enable each plugin with any other SDK. For me, it doesn't quite work correctly, but that may be because my SDK is incompatible. I don't quite remember which site I got it from and it just doesn't quite work. (I'll link a .txt version of my dll file)

Hi Pat:

Have you personally tested whether FSX: Steam Edition is fully compatible with SDK Object Placement Tool (aka "OPT") as provided by P3D SDK, v1.4.4747.0 ? :scratchch


GaryGB
Again, I don't remember what site I got it from and whether or not it is FSX/P3D, but right now it isn't quite working.
 

Attachments

#9
Hi Pat:

Have you personally tested whether FSX: Steam Edition is fully compatible with SDK Object Placement Tool (aka "OPT") as provided by P3D SDK, v1.4.4747.0 ? :scratchch


GaryGB
well, it's worked OK for me. I've used it to place a few items that I could then destroy with TacPack. Fun stuff :cool:
I haven't tried creating any huge, complex scenerys, though. It SEEMS to work fine for me, though.

Again, I don't remember what site I got it from and whether or not it is FSX/P3D, but right now it isn't quite working.
What do you mean "isn't quite working"? I mean, it either works, or it doesn't, no? o_O
I looked at you DLL file, it LOOKS right. Are you sure the path s absolutely correct? Are you logged onto the PC as Administrator? Do you have full Admin rights to your FSX folder? Things placed in C:\Program File (X86) can give you fits, especially in Win10. It's a really good idea to put the SDK into a folder NOT in that folder...
Pat☺
 
#10
Thanks for the assurance that you have successfully been able to run OPT in FSX: Steam Edition. :)

Although I have seen some reports of particular requirements for use- and reported quirks associated with use- of OPT since it was released years ago, I have always preferred use of Instant Scenery, so I have not tracked the nuances of using OPT to make scenery for "free-flight" or "Mission" mode in FSX.

FYI: There has also been a release of "SimDirector" by L-M for P3D, which IIUC, may be their version of OPT; reportedly it also suffers from some stability issues at this time. ;)

GaryGB
 
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#11
Sorry for the late reply.
I looked at you DLL file, it LOOKS right. Are you sure the path s absolutely correct? Are you logged onto the PC as Administrator? Do you have full Admin rights to your FSX folder? Things placed in C:\Program File (X86) can give you fits, especially in Win10. It's a really good idea to put the SDK into a folder NOT in that folder...
Pat☺
I was checking that just now. I'm the only user on this PC, so I'm an admin on it. There isn't anything wrong (that I know about) permission-wise. As far as the x86 folder, I copied the contents of the SDK folder to a new folder on my C: drive and updated the paths; that still didn't work. However, I found ANOTHER dll.xml file WITHIN the Mission Creation Kit folder in the SDK. I updated the paths and such but it still won't show up in-game.
 
#12
*sigh* I've tried pretty much everything. Downloading a different SDK, copying to another folder and trying it from there, editing the paths in the .xml files, and OVER AND OVER again, the addons refuse to show when I start FSX. At this point (after following instructions from dozens of posts) I don't know what to do.
 
#13
Hi Robert:

Typically, the FSX 'active' working copy (not the 'template source' for newly created working copies) is:

C:\Users\[Windows User account profile name]\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\FSX\dll.xml


If you ZIP and attach- or copy and paste the contents of- that file in a reply here, we can offer more help. ;)

GaryGB
 
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#14
Hi Robert:

Typically, the FSX 'active' working copy (not the 'template source' for newly created working copuies) is:

C:\Users\[Windows User account profile name]\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\FSX\dll.xml


If you ZIP and attach- or copy and paste the contents of- that file in a reply here, we can offer more help. ;)

GaryGB

During my unsucceessful troubleshooting, I found not one, but TWO dll.xml files in my AppData/Roaming/Microsoft folders- one under the \FSX folder and another under \FSX-SE. I decided to make them both exact duplicates of each other yet (I swear, I can't count how many times I've octuple-checked the file directories) they still never show up in FSX.
Imadethemboththesamething.PNG
 
#15
Just making sure I know what's going on here...

You said in post #11 you moved the entire SDK to a different folder on your C:\ . The entries you show in your latest post specify that the SDK is under the main FSX folder. Did you move it back under the main FSX folder?
IF you did, another pathing trick you can use is this:
XML:
<path>..\Microsoft Flight Simulator X SDK\SDK\Mission Creation Kit\object_placement.dll</path>
Obviously, you would want to correct it for your particular folder structure, like ..\FSX\blah_blah... in your case,
but it might work for you. I'm grasping at straws here, as you can tell.
Bear in mind that files under the (X86) folder can be notoriously difficult to edit successfully. It's best to copy them to someplace like C:\Temp or something, edits and save them there, then copy them back where they belong.

If you didn't, or there is another copy of it there, like C:\SDK\etc_etc... have you tried using that one's path instead of the one inside the FSX folder?

Is this a downloaded SDK, or the one included on the FSX discs? If it's a download, do you have the version's number?
If it's the one from the discs, have you tried running a repair on it? Or uninstalling it completely, and reinstalling it, again, not under (X86)?

When editing the DLL.XML files, you do have FSX stopped, as in not running in any way. Closed completely. Yes? Then, onces it totally closed and unloaded, make your edits, save the DLL.XML file, and only then start up FSX? Changing the DLL.XML file while FSX running won't show until you close and restart FSX. They won't show if you make them while it's running, like a change to an aircraft.cfg file will.

Just trying to think of ANY possibility, you know? This is a tough one, no question.
Having said that, I really do hope you'll get it going.
Luck!
Pat☺
 
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#16
You said in post #11 you moved the entire SDK to a different folder on your C:\ . The entries you show in your latest post specify that the SDK is under the main FSX folder. Did you move it back under the main FSX folder?......
Bear in mind that files under the (X86) folder can be notoriously difficult to edit successfully. It's best to copy them to someplace like C:\Temp or something, edits and save them there, then copy them back where they belong.

Pat☺
I did try copying the SDK folder onto my C: drive, but that did nothing.

Is this a downloaded SDK, or the one included on the FSX discs? If it's a download, do you have the version's number?
If it's the one from the discs, have you tried running a repair on it? Or uninstalling it completely, and reinstalling it, again, not under (X86)?

Pat☺
No, I don't own a disc-based copy of FSX so the SDK I'm using is the Prepar3D one, downloaded here, version number is 4.4.16.27106. I actually just downloaded that yesterday (during the troubleshooting) but I have yet to try copying-and -pasting it to the C: drive. I might try that.

When editing the DLL.XML files, you do have FSX stopped, as in not running in any way. Closed completely. Yes? Then, onces it totally closed and unloaded, make your edits, save the DLL.XML file, and only then start up FSX? Changing the DLL.XML file while FSX running won't show until you close and restart FSX. They won't show if you make them while it's running, like a change to an aircraft.cfg file will.

Pat☺
FSX isn't running at all when I perform ANY edits to the FSX folder or the DLL. I make the edits, then boot up Friday Harbor then immediately crash my Ultralight when I don't see the options in the toolbar. I close up FSX, make different edits and the cycle repeats.

Just trying to think of ANY possibility, you know? This is a tough one, no question.
Having said that, I really do hope you'll get it going.
Luck!
Pat☺
Thanks again for your help, it's ok. This IS really tough.
 
#18
Hi Robert:

It has been made clear several times in this thread, that one must use the FSX SDK from MS-FSX Deluxe and Acceleration DVDs with either MS-FSX or FSX: Steam Edition; alternatively the downloadable LM-P3D version 1.4x SDK (only) may be used with either version of FSX. :pushpin:


It has been quite some time (year 2006) since I tinkered with trying to get the SDK and other 3rd party DLL Modules to run through repeated re-installs / removals etc.

However, I do recall another factor which may need to be addressed in addition to the thus far mentioned editing of entries made in the 'active' copy of DLL.XML.

IIRC, each time one installs the SDK, that installer auto-configures the entry for OPT in DLL.XML to be disabled.

When one manually edits that entry for OPT in DLL.XML to instead 'enable' OPT, on the next restart of FSX, a prompt for permission to run that OPT Module should appear that requires a reply by the end user.

FYI: This "should" occur regardless of how Windows UAC and/or any other security utility functions are configured.


Based on the reply by the end user at the above cited FSX startup security prompt, an additional entry with a [key code string=0,1,2 etc.] suffix is written not into DLL.XML, but rather into FSX.Cfg under the [Trusted] sub-section of that file.


BTW: Regardless of how many times I edited the entries in DLL.XML, I could not get some Modules (especially SDK Modules, and/or Flight1's Instant Scenery and AFX) to run; this proved to be because of my interrupting the installers' intended work-flow by editing the DLL.XML immediately after the installer finished, and therefore via my interrupting the intended next phase of Module configuration that 'should' have been allowed to occur during the very next startup of FSX. :oops:

In the case of those (earlier) version numbers of Instant Scenery and AFX, I found that I had to allow Modules to 'finish' being 'fully installed and activated' in a 'windowed' FSX task session, and I had to refrain from editing the DLL.XML entry for both modules ...so that the Module launch from DLL.XML could 'auto-run' (without end user manual editing to re-enable the entry) ...during the very next FSX startup after installation of the Module.


Intrigued, I utilized SysInternals' FileMon (predecessor to ProcMon) to scan for- and analyze- what among the (literally) millions of line entries appeared to taking place when those Modules attempted to run in FSX.

The logged permutations of what security coding protocols were running in the subsystem of both FSX-related files and Windows sub-systems were mind-numbing.

Incidentally, the default "phone home" methodology to utilized by certain add-on Modules to automatically check for updated versions online by finding / forcibly utilizing an 'available' internet connection to do so, raised potentially ominous questions as to where exactly certain connectivity coding techniques had their origin in the "Eastern Bloc", as such unique coding signatures and functionality could only be found in public discussions from the "dark side" of the 'InterWeb' at that time. :redflag:


Now of course, we have available a coding mechanism for such connectivity which utilizes later versions of Windows' .NET which may reduce risk for proprietary and/or otherwise 'misbegotten' connectivity methods being exploited by 3rd parties for nefarious purposes. :stirthepo


But, my point is, a Windows User Permissions security prompt 'should' appear the first time any such Module is run as a child process in the FSX Windows task session, and when permission is granted by the end user, an entry is written into FSX.Cfg.


IMHO, to successfully re-install and activate a SDK or add-on Module, one must first remove its entry from both DLL.XML and FSX.Cfg under the [Trusted] sub-section before attempting re-installation of the Module.


NOTE: In some scenarios where one has attempted multiple times to re-install a Module, there may be multiple entries for the same Module within FSX.Cfg under the [Trusted] sub-section.

IIUC, all those Module line item entries should be manually removed from FSX.Cfg, along with any such entry in DLL.XML if attempting re-installation of a Module known to otherwise be compatible with a specific version of FS one is using / configuring. ;)

Then, after re-installing the Module (ex: OPT by re-installing the SDK), do NOT immediately edit the DLL.XML, and run FSX in a 'windowed' task session.

When the Module 'first run' security prompt appears, be sure to allow the Module to run automatically every session without requiring end user permission each time; this allows 'some' Module installers to work properly.

After the security mechanism does its 'voodoo' in the sub-system of FSX and Windows during the very next FSX startup after installation, and after exiting FSX, one can later edit the DLL.XML to require end user permissions to run on subsequent FSX sessions ...if desired. :idea:


Hope this helps with getting OPT to work for you. :scratchch

GaryGB
 
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#19
Oooookey. I'm going to do this step-by-step so that I don't mess up.

Step 1- download and install SDK from link:
Hello...

If this is for FS-Steam then the only SDK that should be used is v1.4 from LM, the version you stated v4.4 which can only be used with P3D only. You will have compatibility problems for sure. The v1.4 can be obtained here, if you do not have it already: https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/resources/prepar3d-v1-sdk.227/
I downloaded and ran the .exe provided, which installed the basic set of SDK tools. I ran FSX and it wasn't there (obviously). Now what do I do next?

(I'm too scared to even touch the dll.xml files right now)
 
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#20
Hi Robert:

Did you first check the FSX.Cfg file to remove any existing entries for SDK modules in the [Trusted] sub-section before re-installing the SDK ? :scratchch

If not, those entries may disable Module functionality. :alert:

GaryGB
 
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