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FS2004 Can't Get Started

Hi,

I tried lighting the KSAN test BGL. from beginning to end.

1. Create Project - KSAN OK
2. Loaded the KSAN_ADE9_CA62.bgl file. OK
3. Turned on the view of the undesignated taxiways since that was turned off. OK, but they are not selectable.
4. Right clicked the airport, and added the stock lights. OK, but the VASIs were dislocated.
5. Left clicked the line between the VASI lights and tried to move them to their correct location. VASI would not move.
6. Left clicked one VASI light and then Shift Clicked the other light to select the entire VASI. VASI would not move.
7. Selected one light of the VASI, moved that, and then selected the other light and moved it. OK, but might have changed the geometry of the placement.
8. Saved the Placement. OK
9. Stripped the airport BGL of its lights. OK. Now using Stripped airport BGL file, with backup as .xxx.
10. Compiled the Data, using FS2004 BGL Lights. Not sure of the difference between these and effects. OK. Two BGL files created.
11. Loaded the airport into FS2004 and lights displayed. OK. I didn't check details yet.
12. Cleaned up the light placement around intersections, etc. Added some by using Insert Light into Line and some by using Copy Light/Paste Light. OK.
13. Saved the Placement. OK.
14. Compiled Data. OK.
15. Opened FS2004 and all lights were visible and in their designated places. But a few strings of taxiway lights appeared to be using white lights instead of blue, even though AFLT tells me they are blue. I discovered that the Place Stock Lights routine placed many duplicate lights, right on top of each other. Once the duplicate lights were deleted, they are now all blue. But this is a relatively tedious process (but I admit less tedious than placing all light strings by hand).
16. I decided to delete the VASIs that were created by the Stock Lights and create new ones. OK. I'll just create new ones from now on.

All done. :)

Thanks,
 
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Looks like we're almost there. I have corrected the VASI issues but, of course, you don't have that version yet (later today). I'll check the duplicate light strings from GetStock Lights.

Thanks,
Don
 
Question: why don't the structures that support the approach lights have legs to the ground?
 
Hi,

I decided to check out the lighting of my airport using default lighting, BGL lights, and standard effects.

Default:

aflt_ksan_default.jpg


BGL Lights:

aflt_ksan_BGL_Lights.jpg


Standard Effects:
aflt_ksan_effects.jpg


I would have assumed that standard effects would look more like the default, but it doesn't. Looks best with BGL lights to me.

Thanks,
 
Hi again,

It appears that AFLT is not connecting to my FS2004. I do have FSUIPC installed (latest FS2004 version). The Ground Elevation box is blank and I have no plane symbol. ADE connects fine.

Hope this helps,
 
In the ADE file I have the main runway's lights set to MEDIUM, but they are imported (Use Stock Lights) as HIGH.

Hope this helps,
 
Just posted 4.1.10. It fixes the VASI problems (location, move). This will be the last release for today.

Please understand that most of my efforts in testing AFLT have been directed at light creation, not replicating stock lighting arrangements - although, in retrospect, I suspect most users will have a stronger interest in the latter. Consequently, you are probably the first to undertake what amounts to exhaustive testing of stock data importing.

I discovered that the Place Stock Lights routine placed many duplicate lights, right on top of each other.
Click to expand...
Is it possible you instructed AFLT to import them more than once. At the moment, AFLT does not check whether or not the lights it is importing have already been imported.

why don't the structures that support the approach lights have legs to the ground?
Click to expand...
They should and they will In the next release.

I would have assumed that standard effects would look more like the default, but it doesn't.
Click to expand...
I believe flightsim uses BGL_LIGHTs for FS9 lighting. Regarding the three screenshots, I notice the following:
  • the spacing of the default runway edge lights seems inconsistent without apparent reason, while AFLTs lights are uniformly spaced
  • VASI spacing appears to be greater in the AFLT versions. I'll check that.
  • AFLT seems to have omitted the MALSR approach light bar.
It appears that AFLT is not connecting to my FS2004.
Click to expand...
There does appear to be some sort of issue there, FS9 failed to connect on my first try. But, I then stopped and restarted AFLT and it connected as expected, It also re-connected as expected when I stopped and restarted FS9. An initialization issue, I expect.

In the ADE file I have the main runway's lights set to MEDIUM, but they are imported (Use Stock Lights) as HIGH
Click to expand...
Consider it fixed.

I was wondering what I was going to do tomorrow.

Thanks for all your help,
Don
 
why don't the structures that support the approach lights have legs to the ground?
Click to expand...

Tom, I don't seem to have such a problem with my airports. Would you provide a screenshot, please.

Re VASI spacing, please verify that the displayed spacing violates the specification. It's OK on my system and seems to reflect what's shown on the ADE display, which makes me wonder about how FS9 interprets the specification.

Don
 
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Hi,

Sorry, I should have replied to this earlier. The narrow spacing between VASI lights is a remnant of this airport being originally created by AFCAD, which puts the lights 300 ft apart. AFCAD got the value from the default airports in FS2004, which also places VASI lights 300 ft apart. This was carried over into the ADE file and then into the AFLT file. When I deleted these and replaced them with AFLT created VASIs, the lights were instead spaced 700 ft apart. I looked into current FAA documents and it says that the lights should be between 500 and 1000 ft apart, with the suggested value of 700 ft. So you are correct for today's airports. I don't know if the spacing has changed between 2003 and now, though.

Here is a picture of one of the approach light bars. This was created by the Use Stock Lights command, from the KSAN test BGL above. In the ADE it is a MALSR approach with 0 strobes, although 5 strobes are now displaying in the AFLT import. A bug?

aflt_ksan_bar.jpg


If I delete the Stock Light approach and create one from within AFLT, the appearance of the bar is the same. The wide bar is just three of these side by side.

BTW, when I started AFLT this morning (still 4.1.09), the connection to FS2004 via FSUIPC is working, so it must indeed be an initialization issue of some sort. When I quit FS and restarted it while AFLT was still running, I lost the connection. Saving my file, quitting AFLT and restarting it while FS was running restored the connection. So AFLT is not making the connection when FS starts while AFLT is already running.

Hope this helps,
 
Thanks, Tom.

AFLT uses the VASI spacing specified in the stock data. As far as I can tell, the display reflects the data. (It's sort of difficult to be sure since, when displaying the default airport, there are no 3D models and the lights don't show in an overhead view.) AFLT also appears to use the same spacing as ADE.

That approach light bar doesn't look like the one AFLT uses. (AFLT's is orange). Since I've got the KSAN "stuff", I'll see if I can duplicate using it.

I found and fixed the FSUIPC issue last night. I'm wrestling with the other issues at the moment and will re-release ASAP.

Don
 
PS. In an 1976 FAA document, the spacing specified for large airports is 700 ft, but also has a note that says a spacing of 300 ft can be used "For SAVASI. May be used for siting VASI-2 on utility airports with space limitations and no plans for expansion to a VASI-4."

All the default airports I can find in FS2004 that use VASI (usually only smaller airports; larger airports use PAPIs) use a spacing of 300 ft. I assume they are considered "utility airports" as described above? Do you know of a stock airport with a 700 ft VASI spacing? It's not really important, because you are using the FAA standard spacing at the moment. If needed that can always be changed when creating/editing them.

When I load the Approach_T.mdl object from the BaseModels/FS9 folder into ModelConverterX, this is what is displayed:

aflt_ksan_bar_mcx.jpg


which is exactly what I'm seeing in FS. There are also Approach_T_Head.mdl and Approach_T_Post.mdl files in the folder, but these are not specified in the MALSR approach definition page, only Approach_T.mdl.

Hope this helps,
 
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It's not really important, because you are using the FAA standard spacing at the moment.
Click to expand...
No. The spacing is specified in the airport data. I use whatever it is.

Re the approach bar, that's certainly what the bar would look like without a texture. I'll investigate.

Don
 
Hi,

The reason that the texture is not loading is that the textures were apparently copied to:

C:\FS\FS2004\Addon Scenery\CalClassic Core\scenery\texture

instead of:

C:\FS\FS2004\Addon Scenery\CalClassic Core\texture

Once I moved the textures to the correct folder, the bars are now solid orange, but still no legs on them. That also made my other lighting objects look much better. :)
 
I'm not quite sure what you mean by you use the spacing value in the stock airport. In this KSAN example, the stock airport has only PAPIs, there are no VASIs there. I mean the spacing *between* the two VASI lights, not the location on the runway. PAPIs have no such spacing value.
 
Hi again,

I have a question. Since you are creating these 3D objects from pre-compiled MDL files, why do you need to create a library of these objects for every airport? if you created a single library of all these objects and upon initial program installation told users to copy the library objects folder to their FS installation and activate it in the Scenery Library, then each airport's Bases BGL file would only need to contain placement information and the textures would not have to be copied into every airport's texture folder that uses these objects. Just wondering...

EDIT: I understand now. You are creating different models on the fly, apparently. For example, some edge light models have a blue light, and others have a white light. For a single library you would need a separate object for each color. But with standard colors that would only increase the number of total objects needed by two fold or so, not that many.

Thanks,
 
Last edited:
Hi,

Using 4.1.10 the VASIs are indeed now placed correctly when you Use Stock Lights. The connection to FS also seems to be fixed. We're getting there.
 
Last edited:
I'm not quite sure what you mean by you use the spacing value in the stock airport.
Click to expand...
The location of VASIs and PAPIs relative to the center of the runway, and the spacing between upwind and downwind VASIs is defined in the .bgl. What I meant is that I use whatever is so specified.

I'm having trouble reproducing a couple of issues you highlighted earlier.
  • First the duplicated taxiway lights. If you ask AFLT to import the lights, if those lights have already been imported or otherwise created, AFLT tell you so and seeks confirmation before re-importing. So, it's not clear how you got those duplicates - especially some with the wrong color. If you can duplicate the problem, please send me the project folder containing the duplicates and a description of your process.
  • Texture folder path. If the scenery folder path ends in "\scenery", I simply strip off the last 8 characters and add "\texture". Is it possible your "\scenery" had a following space (which I have now addressed.
I haven't yet had a look at your KSAN approach towers. That's next on my list.

DOn
 
Tom, I've just checked out KSAN and the approach towers appear normal - with legs and everything. I simply imported the .xml file you sent a day or so ago and compiled. Perhaps you are missing one of the base models or one has somehow become corrupted.

Please reinstall AFLT to a fresh folder, import, compile and test. If it still gives you partial towers, please zip up your project folder and send it to me.

Don
 
41.11 just posted. Even though we haven't yet "come to grips" with your two remaining issues, Tom, I felt there had been enough changes to warrant another release. I believe all outstanding issues other than the two above-noted ones have been resolved.

Don
 
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