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FS2004 Can't Get Started

That's odd, I can vary the size of the other effects in the colors.txt file. There is an entry for PAPI-White and PAPI-Red in the colors.txt file, but changing the size parameter doesn't change the size of the VASI lights. I assumed that VASI and PAPI would use the same lights. And the only lights I can find in the Effects folder are PAPI-White and PAPI-Red. Are these used for VASI too?

OK, using 4.1.15.

I compiled my KSAN airport using Inverse Mipped Effects. You are right, at a distance these are much better. However, they are very dim close to the airport. They currently start brightening up at 7.6 NM from the airport, and stay bright until about 8.6 NM out. If they could brighten up instead at around 4.0 NM to around 6 NM, then a BGL Light file could take over closer to the airport and create the nice fat lights close to the airport. Since BGL lights are easy on frame rates, their addition should not hurt the frame rate much. (SEE POST BELOW).

The other problem is that the one type of light that needs to be bright at a distance is the VASI lights, and they are not getting bright when the runway lights do as you get further from the airport.

Good news on the pulsing. Knowing the cause is half the battle.

Thanks,
 
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I have a problem with 4.1.15. I cannot left click and select lines of lights. I can right click them to get them to turn red, but the dialog boxes don't work (Place Lights is always grayed out). I also cannot select individual lights - even right clicking doesn't work. Selecting runways and taxiways works OK.

4.1.14 works OK.
 
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That's odd, I can vary the size of the other effects in the colors.txt file.
Click to expand...
You are referring to the size multiplier adjustment. When you referred to effect size, I assumed you were talking about the X-scale and Y-scale parameters of the effect. Unfortunately, the way the code is currently written, that control has no effect on PAPI/VASI effect size. I can easily fix that. In the meantime, AFTER you compile, open the .two PAPI .fx files and adjust the X-Scale and Y-scale parameters ( they will be "6" and "3" respectively for standard effects). Please note any changes you make will be temporary; those effects are generated as part of the compile process. If you want to make it permanent (even thought I can fix the multiplier), change the effect names and declare them "custom".

Actually, all the lights change brightness as you get further away from the airport, The change is so gradual you don't notice. As I said before, I may be able to improve that performance by creating a separate set of mipmaps for FS9.

I cannot left click and select lines of lights. I can right click them to get them to turn red, but the dialog boxes don't work (Place Lights is always grayed out). I also cannot select individual lights - even right clicking doesn't work.
Click to expand...
I've obviously done something I shouldn't have.

Don
 
So far I was looking at the end of the runway without approach lighting. What would work perfectly for the VASI lights is to have the Inverse Mipped Lights of the MALSR approach. Those brighten up at 2.6 NM, just as the BGL Light version of the approach lights are fading away. If these lights could be translated into VASI lights. then that would be what I need. Also, the BGL Light approach lights are quite a bit brighter than the runway lights, just what's needed for a VASI too.

I find now that Place Lights will light up in 4.1.15 if I enter a spacing - I forgot that you need to do that even for edits (even though my custom spacing seems to be retained). So it's just the selection that is a problem.
 
All the lights generally, work the same way for a given light source. What's different is color and size.

I don't see any significant difference between the BGL LIGHTs in the Apporach array and the runway edge lighting. Once you get a little bit away, I think what you are seeing is the effect of 5 closely-spaced BGL Lights on the approach towers compared against the much greater spacing between runway edge lights.

Please re-download 4.1.15 from http://stuff4fs.com. The selection issue is fixed in the current version. (I fixed one problem and created another.)

Don
 
Hi,

Yes, selection seems to be back, thanks.

You're probably right about the approach lights. I understand FS2004 can crash if there are lights too close together, so I guess we can't add more bulbs to the VASI lights. Too bad. I assume I could add another BGL file with just VASI lights in it, though.
 
Adding an extra light or two to the VASI is easy to do. In fact. We can experiment tomorrow.

Don
 
Great It looks like two BGL Light bulbs will be bright enough (I am assuming the current VASI BGL Lights are as bright as they can be) .

If we can also get the Inverse Mipmapped VASI lights to act like the MALSR approach lights and brighten up at 2.6 NM, that should be just about perfect.

Then we can talk about blended light files (BGL Lights and Inverse Mipmapped lights duplicated at each position for approach, VASI/PAPI, and runway lights). :)
 
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I am assuming the current VASI BGL Lights are as bright as they can be
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Yes, The RGB in the colors.txt files are all set to maximum brightness.
If we can also get the Inverse Mipmapped VASI lights to act like the MALSR approach lights and brighten up at 2.6 NM, that should be just about perfect.

Then we can talk about blended light files (BGL Lights and Inverse Mipmapped lights duplicated at each position for approach, VASI/PAPI, and runway lights). :)
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, Tom, I have little control over inverse-mipmapped lights. There is a maximum of 8 mipmaps and Flightsim "decides" which one it uses at any time. Other than the obvious, instantaneous distance has nothing to do with which mipmap is used. It is unfortunate that FS9's handling of transparency isn't the same as in FSX/P3D. If it were, the LOD-variable lights over which I have greater control could be used.

While I suppose some sort of blending might be possible, it would be a nightmare to both document in an intelligible fashion and implement. And I wonder just how many users would have the technical knowledge (the merits of each of the three types and their interactions) to make use of such a feature. If it seemed useful, I could provide for a light-source specification for each light type with a default/override light source - but that would be an enhancement "down the road". I've got to get the initial version stable first - and with yours and Martin's help we are getting close.

I'll be making another release later today that gives you a similar level of control over BGL lights as you currently have over effect size and that also fixes the "pulsing" issue.

Don
 
OK, no problem. I'll try to figure out why the inverse mipped approach lights are bright at 2.6 NM, while the runway lights are not until 7.6 NM, if I can figure out the textures used, etc.

If I want to get fancy with multiple light types I can create multiple BGL files. That's really quite easy. I just have to remember to add INV or BGL to the front of the previous filename (light types) so AFLT will not delete them when it compiles the next set.

I'll be looking forward to the next release.
 
if I can figure out the textures used, etc.
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There's only one, and it's named in the effect file. The mipmaps are uniformly graduated. If you have, or could point me to a good description of how FS selects mipmaps, that would be helpful.
I just have to remember to add INV or BGL to the front of the previous filename (light types) so AFLT will not delete them when it compiles the next set.
Click to expand...
????

Don
 
OK, I found the texture in the Effects/texture folder. I didn't think to look there. I don't have a way to examine the inverse mipped MDL objects, they crash ModelconverterX. So I can't find out if there is an instrinsic reason that the approach lights are visible at 2.6 NM instead of 7.6 NM. But it might be the same issue as the BGL lights - there are 5 of them close together. I'll try that next.

Re: your ????. If I compile a Project into a folder that contains files from a different Project, those files are deleted. For example, here is a folder with the files from the ksan_vasi project:

aftl_original_folder.jpg


When I compile the ksan project into that same folder, the ksan_vasi project files are deleted:

aflt_new_folder.jpg


If I rename the ksan_vasi files by placing INV_ or BGL_ in front of their filenames, they are not deleted when I compile a new project into that same folder.

Hope this helps,
 
If I double up the inverse mipped BGL files I get reasonbly bright lights to within about 4 NM of the runway. Then they fade away rapidly, until you get extremely close to each light. Adding a BGL Light file takes over at that 4 NM, and keeps things bright all the way to the runway. Works pretty good. I still haven't got a VASI light bright enough to see (remember I'm using the puny VASI21, which only has one light each), so I may have to keep the VASI light in the ADE file to provide a default VASI light which is just bright enough to start my approach from 2000 ft AGL. I can now match this VASI location to the location of a VASI in AFLT, to provide the 3D models.

The only untoward effect I am seeing is that I get a general glare across the entire screen as I'm about to touch down, perhaps from all the effects. It's not bright enough to affect my landing, and it only lasts for a second, flashing on and off. I see it even with only one inverse mipped light file active (and nothing else), but it does get somewhat brighter when I add another. I don't mind them, but a friend says they are annoying.
 
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Final decision (I think). If I use a default ADE VASI, then BGL Lights will do what I need for the rest. They become visible at about the right time (4 NM away) and look great when you're at the airport. No glare as you touch down either.

Thanks for your help,
 
A couple things:
  • I've just found a coding error kept PAPI/VASIs dim when using BGL Lights. They are much brighter now. Nonetheless, I'm going to implement the solution I mentioned in an earlier post.
  • While using a BGL_Light to brighten the inverse mipmapped works at your specific airport- and maybe for FS9 generally, it's not an overall solution since BGL Lights aren't available in P3D and with FSX, effects are substituted for BGL_Lights. But, you have given me an idea if fine-tuning of the mipmaps doesn't resolve the issue. That is, using a standard effect to supplement reverse mipmapped effects.
I'm still on schedule for another release today.

Don
 
Will that release deal with the P3D file placement from our conversation by any chance, Don?
 
Will that release deal with the P3D file placement from our conversation by any chance, Don?
Click to expand...
That problem was dealt with in Version 4.1.15 - or at least I thought I had dealt with it in that release.

Don
 
Please have a look at our conversation. You seem to have missed my latest comments.
 
Hi,

Good news about the VASI lights; I'll be interested in that and the size adjustment capability.

Yes, an enlarged standard effect could probably supplement an inverse mipped effect when close to the airport, much as I would use BGL Lights for FS2004.
 
Tom, Martin (and anyone else interested. I have just posted Release 4.1.16 to http://stuff4fs.com. It fixes the:
  • the P3D compile issue
  • the pulsing of the lenses on the 3D models
  • and improves the visibility/range of PAPI/VASI lights using BGL_Lights,
  • generates 0 strobes for MALSR (and all other) approaches when there are none in the stock item.
Unfortunately, Tom, I was unable to implement the ability for users to override PAPI/VASI brightness in the manner I had hoped (i.e., via colors.txt). I can always do it another way, but I thought I'd let you first take a look at the improved operation in the new release since the system now does as you intended (i.e., adds a second BGL_Light). This was always intended, but a coding error defeated its implementation.

I look forward to your comments.

Don
 
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