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confused as heck..

W

Warchild

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us-oregon
I apologize for asking a newbie question but well i'm rather new to making models for fsx. Please bear with me..
I am experiencing a model issue i've never seen before in FSX and P3D i've never seen before. it baffles me to no end. the gist of it is, i'm using the same exact MDL file for both FSX and P3D, but FSX shows me one version of the model and P3D shows me an older version of the model. its like i have two models in the same file. I'm using Max 2012 and LM's SDK and have been trying to compile the model for two days and more or less failing miserably. Perhaps this is why. If anyone can give me insight into what causes this issue, and can educate me as to how to alleviate it, i would be greatly appreciative. I'm including two pics of the model, one the fsx loading screen and the other being the P3D screenshot of the model Again, the same exact mdl file was used for both programs..
Thanks.
Pam


07ad276d-3617-4305-a670-9a38529b537d_zps4b0acb66.jpg


2013-8-2_12-40-42-600_zps24448b65.jpg
 
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It sounds like a file copying issue to me. Are you certain that the old file is being overwritten? Do the mdl file dates match?
 
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N2056 said:
It sounds like a file copying issue to me. Are you certain that the old file is being overwritten? Do the mdl file dates match?
Click to expand...

Yes they do.. In fact I simply copied the entire folder over to P3D this morning as i didnt have p3d working till i bought a new license this morning. everything filewise is identical to FSX. going further, i even went in and deleted the interior models which "were" based on the original model, but i still get the same results.
 
Try turning Windows UAC off (temporarily) and see what you get. If OK, then you have permission issues and Windows is not allowing you to load the new copy.
 
tgibson said:
Try turning Windows UAC off (temporarily) and see what you get. If OK, then you have permission issues and Windows is not allowing you to load the new copy.
Click to expand...

UAc is off.. Sorry, I probably should have mentioned that before, but i just didnt think about it..
The P3D installation is older, but the license is brand new. The model itself has never been in p3d till this morning, and frankly, i've never exported anything from max to fsx before, so i must admit ignorance as well..

I've exported the model to a .obj file and have imported that, but now i'm working on other newbie issues with it regarding friendly names and such.. I dont know if the obj file will solve the issues and wont till i can get past the fiendname issue and the unknown system exception it causes.. To be honest, I think GMax was better at exporting and this p3D SDK is seriously problematical..
 
P3D SDK is amazing and works very good.

Have you tried using the ACES tools in max to create a new GUID and friendly name?
 
VAEjonp said:
P3D SDK is amazing and works very good.

Have you tried using the ACES tools in max to create a new GUID and friendly name?
Click to expand...

yes. the Aces tools are all i use. Using the fileproperties tool, I can set the GUID but it doesnt seem to set it from the tools menu as a verify gives me GUID and friendlyname issues all the time.. i've started purposely exporting files simply to create the GUID and friendly name. I know.. weird right?
It seems that with the copy i have, the only thing that works truely well is the tool for fixing scaling issues..
 
:confused:

I've never heard of anything like this before. Are you ABSOLUTELY SURE that it's the same exact .MDL file? Try opening the problematic model in ModelConverterX and ensure that it's not the one in FSX. I'll have to agree with N2056 here, it sounds like a file copying issue. Delete the P3D one and replace it with the model you want (the FSX one). If that doesn't work, the only possible explanation for this is......

Well, ALIENS. :yikes:
 
ozzman1997 said:
:confused:

I've never heard of anything like this before. Are you ABSOLUTELY SURE that it's the same exact .MDL file? Try opening the problematic model in ModelConverterX and ensure that it's not the one in FSX. I'll have to agree with N2056 here, it sounds like a file copying issue. Delete the P3D one and replace it with the model you want (the FSX one). If that doesn't work, the only possible explanation for this is......

Well, ALIENS. :yikes:
Click to expand...

We're on the same page. I opened both the fsx version and the p3d version in modelviewerx and both models display correctly. however when i load the same model file into p3d it shows up as an old and discontinued versio from two days ago.

As for the file copy issue, there wasnt any. I litterally copied the entire folder from FSX where it displays properly, and pasted that folder in the p3D airplanes folder. there were no individual files copied.. none, zero, nodda..

I thought maybe modelconverter could show me if there was a "phantom" model still stuck there in a hidden or invisible state, but it couldnt. no more than max itself can.

You guys, the denizens of fsdeveloper are the best modelers in the world. and if none of you have ever seen these ghosts, i really dont know what i'm gonna do.. I'm certainly no where near as good as you all. Just a noob really.. I feel very lost..
 
Upload the max file and someone will surly take a look. Hang in there, we're all learning all the time.
 
VAEjonp said:
Upload the max file and someone will surly take a look. Hang in there, we're all learning all the time.
Click to expand...
Thank for the kid words of encouragement. this is obviously driving me 8nsane, and it simply the last of a long string of problems ive been having with this model. the rest i think i have ironed out, but this one really takes the cake.
Ive uploaded the max file to https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63691108/S100.max . Its for Max 2012 32 bit. i had to use 32 bit as according to what ive found, 64bit is not supported by the SDK yet. maybe someday.
The file should load normally in max with no problems. The bow should be curved and there should be vent holes along the siderail. In FSX it shoyld present the same as it does in max. curved bow and all, but in P3D it should present as the old hull with a straight bow and no vent holes along the siderail. If it shows properly in P3D, then theres a possible problem with my install of max, though i cant imagine what that could be.
the help and encouragement are both greatly appreciated..
Thanks
Pam
 
N2056 said:
I wish I could help more, but I don't have P3D.
Click to expand...
it's ok.. Most people dont have P3D and even fewer have max 2012. I knew it was going to be an uphill battle from the moment i started, i just wasnt expecting the curve balls ive been getting..

I pulled a trick hoping to eliminate the ghost and exported the deck and the hull individually to two separate .obj files, then imported each .obj file into a new max scene. ::chuckles:; i dont know if that worked or not as now when i export the .x file, the export experiences an "unknown system exception" at 77% of the way and crashes max.. verifying the models tells me that all the LODs are named wrong, but there doesnt appear to be any way to rename them in either the aces tools or max itself. I'd start thinking that the gods hate me, but Bill leaming and lionheart are both right here, and i know they dont hate me at all.. so thats out the window.. joking aside though, it is quite difficult to deal with. i'm real good at kitbashing, and not too shabby at basic modeling, but this exporting stuff is maddening..
 
When I export, I use the 'Export Selected' only, after selecting everything in the scene.

I have had this happen to me a couple of times. I ended up having something very simple causing this. It was terribly embarrassing.

But... I wonder if you have two versions of models in your P3D system? If you take out the one, does it still show up in P3D? You might have the first prototype version in your system, like a model fitted into another aircraft folder to get it to work, etc.

Just an idea.

EDIT: Also, I found that working for ages on rebooting updated models, that both FSX and P3D will quit updating the files, so a reboot of the sim will restore updating. its like it only updates so many times and stops. Probably a 'laziness' intelligence programming, or P3D is becoming sentient and is playing games with me. :S


Bill
 
Stupid question: Did you reboot or turn off the PC in the last few days?

Sometimes MSFS just refuses to delete its stuff from Windows' page file between sessions.
 
Erm, a long shot this: does FSX display unmapped geometry or must it be at least mapped first? I seem to remember P3D being favourably compared with FSX in that regard: that P3D would show unmapped, untextured objects while FSX wouldn't. If that is the case, part of your model wouldn't show because it isn't mapped yet. Or had any FSX materials assigned to it.

But I may be whistling in the wind... :o Tidy model, Pam!
 
Both of those are really good suggestions.. P3D I didnt do a reload that i remember, I simply started it up and loaded the boat and had a minor heart attack.. I havent tried loading the model today. guss I'm too afraid of what i'll see, The page file issue is a possibility. FSX uses two graphics buffers and there were problems with that in the early days of dsx where you would make changes to a planes skin and it wouldnt update, because it kept using the wrong buffer (or something close to those lines ). That idea crossd my mind as well so i created several differently named meshes with different GUIDs and different friendlynames, but that didnt help.. So as i said above, I exported the main pieces of the boat to two seperat .obj files and re-imported and combined them as a new model. That didnt help either.. One clue i'm looking into is that there are more co-located vertices in this model than there are actual used vertices. seriously! I'm suspecting theres an overlay that doesnt show up in perspective/material view and is too cluttered to see in wireframe. I know i'm grasping at straws, but yeah, i'm that baffled.

Addendum.. I just started p3d with the latest model and the problem is still there.. more and more i suspect its all the colocated vertices and i have no idea how to proceed with that.
 
hairyspin said:
Erm, a long shot this: does FSX display unmapped geometry or must it be at least mapped first? I seem to remember P3D being favourably compared with FSX in that regard: that P3D would show unmapped, untextured objects while FSX wouldn't. If that is the case, part of your model wouldn't show because it isn't mapped yet. Or had any FSX materials assigned to it.

But I may be whistling in the wind... :o Tidy model, Pam!
Click to expand...

Thanks Hairy.. and you may have something there.. Its worth me looking into..
 
What does your Model folder look like? Do you have multiple .mdl files in it? Is the model.cfg file calling an old one by chance?
 
A quick update. I've found at least part of it. Group 244 has, no materials, no nothing. its totally invisible in max but the bounding box is still there if you select that group and going into mesh edit and selecting vertices the vertices appear and are selectable. Odly, theres no anything else you would expect, like lines. I'll bet if i go through the entire upper deck model, I'll find several phantoms hiding in there just like the one above.

I had to create a copy of just the foredeck ( the on part of the boat that used to be part of the old hull ) and save that to a new file. Then i pulled that file in and started using the LOD tool to isolate each LOD and discovered an extra LOD that wasnt supposed to be there.
 
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