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Copyright Interpretation

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bobbyjack said:
I think part of the problem is that many folks think that if they own something ( either they bought it or they got it free), they can do what ever they please with it. That is only true to a certain extent.

Let's say I buy a book about the "Mona Lisa". I can read that book. I can give that book away. I can throw that book out. I can cut it in half. But I can't photo copy a page of it

Bob
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it just blow your mind to know that legally, you can NOT give that book away??? People do it.. But legally, you are not allowed. You must sell it and then give the proper portion to the publishing company. This goes to the same reason that when a library discards a book, they remove the cover.. Once the cover is gone, it is illegal to own that copy and it must be destroyed. Having 5 kids, I own many books that have had covers ripped off.. Doesn't it suck that legally speaking, I am breaking the law.. LOL

Copyright laws and interpretations can be fun to talk about...because so many of the laws are simply ridiculous...Especially because they are created and written by lawyers.

This entire topic was really put into the wringer when record companies wanted audio-tape manufacturers to put huge usage taxes on blank tapes because people could record off the radio or record someone elses record or pre-recorded tape. Or God forbid, you record a live concert or event.

BTW, as it was posted about the lifetime of the author and 70 years after... The courts have ruled that doesn't stand up.. Look up, if you want, cases of using, copying, etc.. old video games of companies that no longer exist. Suits have been brought against people that took old games that were made for Atari systems, Colecovision, Odyssey, etc... and put them into new game packs.. Ported them (decompiled, modified, and recompiled) to computer systems and other new game consoles.... Every one of those cases was won by the people/companies that are doing this work now...because the games they are working with are considered dead. The companies are long gone or have given permission by NOT taking back assumed permissions.. In other words, if 5 people use their stuff...and they do nothing...but then one does it and that company or it's former members, representatives, etc.. decide they WILL file a suit....since they didn't against the others, it is assumed by the courts that they gave permission and their rights are revoked...

It's a tricky field... And if you ever do actually have a question, just call a patent/copyright lawyer and ask them. I don't have a dedicated patent lawyer in my family...but counting siblings, aunts, uncles, and cousins that I am close with, I have 6 lawyers (2 are judges), 2 architects, 2 mechanics, 3 published authors, 5 scientists, and 2 business owners.. I have people I can ask questions of and do because some of these things affect my own business. I also read Newsweek, the Wall Street Journal and the NY Times...and they have stories about these kinds of things on a regular basis..

---

Here is my personal opinion on using things such as textures and objects.. IF you are using an object that was created say back in 2004 that you download from an FS file site. In the package, it says you can use the object in your projects as long as you notify the author and tell him/her what you are using it in.. Now, if you email that person and the email is bounced back as they don't exist....you do a web search for a current email ...by checking google, bing, newer versions of their work, etc... and you do NOT find a valid email, You have met your responsibility. This is my own personal opinion.

IF you download a pack with 1000's of items in it...and there is no information on each item and who created it... You are free to use those items in your scenery. However, I would put in my information the name of the package I got the items from. And always put a note that if someone sees something I used that they created, and they have a problem with it, they can then contact me and I will remove it if that is what they want. Or give them full credit if that is all they want.

I personally do not sell my work and have no intention of ever selling it...so maybe I give myself a bit more license than many others would do... But, as a developer myself, I would make sure that my information is always current and up to date, so that if people need to get hold of me, they can. If I fail to do so, then I have basically said screw it, it's just not worth my time or effort... Thus, to me, I have given up all my rights to the work I created... It IS up to the developer to make sure they are available to the end user IF they want total control over the work they put out for the world to use. It shouldn't be up to someone else to spend 10 hours searching for you..and wait for 6 months for you to reply to a request if you put in your copyright info that they must contact you before using it in a package they create.. That is very irresponsible. And just because you disagree with that point of view, doesn't make it a wrong or illogical assessment...

IF something says you can not use it for any reason...then that's that. Period. If you do, then you do so at your own risk...

IF something says contact the author and just let them know where it is being used...then once you mail them via the address they have given...you have fulfilled your obligation that they gave..

BTW, I did ask my lawyer cousin a question before I released an old plane with our new BlueStream Air paint on it... I wasn't getting any response from the planes creator about letting us release the model with the paint... My cousin told me to write a nice letter explaining what I wanted to do.. Instead of asking and waiting for permission, tell them that we would be releasing their great model with our paint in 30 days.. and that if they did NOT wish us to do that, all they needed to do was to let us know not to and we would not do so..

The reason we wanted to release the model with the paint was that you could only find it on a fileshare (pay to use) web site.. Apparently that site had it and the other sites it was originally on for free had all vanished.. The authors own link to the file was dead. My cousin said this reasonably puts the burden on the model creator, which is a totally legal and acceptable policy used by millions of people and companies every day. So, that is what we did. 5 months after we released it, the author emailed us saying he loved the paint on his plane and was happy that his plane was back in circulation.. Of course we gave full credit to him in our read me.

Anyway, you now know where I stand.. Agree or disagree...that's where I stand.. And I will back it up...

I hope this doesn't get locked.. If people can't control their feelings in a respectful and peaceful way, then remove them...not the topic.. It is a topic that should be ventured into, especially by developers.. We don't all have to agree...but understanding one another and why we believe or do what we do can only be good for the community.

- Greg
 
mmann said:
Maybe I can just copy part of the plane, like the fuselage and wings. I don't need the virtual cockpit for a static.:D

Regards, Mike Mann
Click to expand...

More likely the rivets in the tail ;)
 
When I posted a similar query on another site; Frank Safranek who does the paints for Alphasim replied:

Yes. As long as it is freeware. And please include that EULA in your package so the next guy doesn't grab it from your package and add it to his payware package.

Regards, Mike Mann
 
Indeed. Simplest result. Permission sought and given. Thanks alphasim.
 
SpectroPro said:
It shouldn't be up to someone else to spend 10 hours searching for you..and wait for 6 months for you to reply to a request if you put in your copyright info that they must contact you before using it in a package they create.. That is very irresponsible. And just because you disagree with that point of view, doesn't make it a wrong or illogical assessment...
Click to expand...

Hi Greg,

I notice that on MANY products (not in FS!) it just says (for instance) "(C) 2011 xxxx Company" without ANY ways of knowing who they are or where they are.
That doesn't make the copyright void IMHO. In fact, don't know about the US laws, but AFAIK the International Laws and most certainly most national European laws state that there is intellectual copyright on ANY creation WITHOUT stipulating so specifically.

Although I understand the tendency to finding this all a bit annoying and hence wanting to 'interpret' (and maybe bend a little) these rules, in the end it just means you'll have to create your OWN products, books, songs, models and photos. Or pay up. Or look elsewhere. Or get permission. :D

Now, the MAIN problem in all of this, most certainly as far as FS is concerned, is the fact that NONE of the FS developers, publishers and distributors have money to prosecute people that think they can make up their own copyright laws, populate the torrent sites or just bluntly sell freeware on nice looking webshops.

So the latter makes this entire discussion sort of mute, no matter who is right. And yes, extremely frustrating for the actual creators and people who are trying to make (at least part of) a living in this home industry.
 
Francois,
Just saying something is copyright (and you are correct, if you write/publish/create ANYTHING, you automatically hold the copyright to it IF it is original...) doesn't automatically mean no one else can use it. You MUST specify what rights you wish to maintain. I found this out first hand many years ago when I was doing web design.

So, if you were to create a tree, and put it online for others to download...and you have a simple line saying:

"Copyright 2011, Francois"

All that legally means is that you are the creator of that product. Without a 'rights' statement, AND based on the fact you made it available to anyone that wants to use it....You have, legally speaking, given permission for anyone to use that tree in anyway they see fit. Now, some courts may say that is true ONLY if they publish YOUR original copyright info. Some would say that isn't even required, as you didn't stipulate that they must do that. Trust me on this one issue...JUST saying copyright without specifying the boundaries of that copyright is basically the same as saying TAKE IT, IT'S YOURS TO USE HOWEVER, WHEREVER, AND WHENEVER...

I learned that the very VERY hard way.... So, if you GET a product like that, morals or guilt should play NO part at all....because it IS 100% free for you to use however you want.. So said the 7th District Federal Court...

- Greg
 
This reply is copyright by Fr. Bill Leaming (2011). All rights reserved.
 
I am closing this thread now. I think there has been ample opportunity to discuss this particular subject and we are in danger of going round in circles and re-hashing old discussions.
 
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