Cost for image processing functionalities

[arno]

scenProc has various image processing functionalities, for example to features to detect features from image and the feature to create photoreal sceneries from imagery. All of these functionalities use the OpenCV library for the image processing. As I make my tools in C# I'm using a C# wrapper around the OpenCV library, for that I use EmguCV. This wrapper library is not free however (it's only free for open source projects). Since scenProc is closed source I did buy a license for it in 2017 when I first started to use the library. At the time this license cost around 250 euro. And the license was valid forever for that specific major version.

With the current upgrade to .NET 8.0 that I'm working on, it was time to update the OpenCV and EmguCV to a more recent version (the old version I used did not support the new .NET version and of course the new function also offers more functionality). When I checked this about 2 months ago I saw that I could upgrade the license to the current version for around 150 euro and then it would remain valid for the current major version forever again. Quite a fair offer, but I didn't buy it back then as I hadn't started with the .NET upgrade yet.

This week, with the .NET upgrade almost done, I decided to check again to buy the license upgrade, but unfortunately I found out that the EmguCV license model has recently changed. Instead of a license that is forever valid for a specific major version, they have now moved to a subsription model where you need to pay for using the library yearly. And compared to the old prices (between 150 and 250 euro per major release), the price has been increased quite a bit as well. It is now around 150 euro per year.

In 2017 when I bought the license it was with a commercial project that I was working on in mind, so I did not mind to spend the money back then. But the current yearly price I feel is too high to spend that amount of money yearly. I am not considering the following options to support these features of scenProc. Please specify in the poll which approach you prefer:

• Remove the image processing features to prevent having to pay the yearly price. Personally I would not prefer this approach, as I think they are useful and it was quite some fun to develop them.
• Do a yearly donation round to collect money to cover these costs. With these donations the imagery processing features will remain freely available for everybody.
• Put the image processing features behind a license key and let users who want to use them pay a small price for a one-year license.

If any of you has other ideas on how to handle this cost, I am happy to discuss that in this thread as well of course.

 

[arno]

I have been in contact with EmguCV about this as well and have been able to get a discount on the subscription. But still there is a yearly subscription to pay now and I am looking for the best way to cover that cost.

 

[Christian Bahr]

Hi Arno.
The cost of the license could be covered by a donation campaign here in the forum.
Although I have no use for it at the moment, I would like to have it, it is quite possible that I will use the feature soon.

 

[Christian Bahr]

To set a good example, I donated 50 EUR to support Arno and his colleagues. This works very well via the linked Donation Button here in the forum.
So, dear fellow developers, don't be stingy! Everyone here will definitely have 20 or 30 EUR to spare. I mean, Arno, Dick and all the other members of the team are doing a damn good job. And they have been doing so for decades

 

[Clutch Cargo]

Christian, that was quite a generous donation. Couple of questions Arno - this effects the Texture Filter Editor? Could someone continue to stay with the current version of scenProc and not lose any features?

I think adding a licensing feature would put an extra workload on yourself. At least I found that out years ago when I had to track users during installs and the like of my sceneries. I'm leaning to more towards a donation drive idea and see out that works. Of course 5 Euros is really small for an annual cost if you go that route.

 

[arno]

To set a good example, I donated 50 EUR to support Arno and his colleagues. This works very well via the linked Donation Button here in the forum.
So, dear fellow developers, don't be stingy! Everyone here will definitely have 20 or 30 EUR to spare. I mean, Arno, Dick and all the other members of the team are doing a damn good job. And they have been doing so for decades

Thanks a lot, very much appreciated.

Just one note, for my tools there is a separate donation link: https://www.scenerydesign.org/donations/. I try to keep the money for keeping the website running and for my tools separate.

 

[arno]

Couple of questions Arno - this effects the Texture Filter Editor? Could someone continue to stay with the current version of scenProc and not lose any features?

This indeed affects the texture filter editor and the steps that use the texture filter configuration.

The current stable release of scenProc is not affected. That one still uses the old EmguCV for which I bought the license before. I did actually go ahead already and buy the new subscription license as well by now.

I think adding a licensing feature would put an extra workload on yourself. At least I found that out years ago when I had to track users during installs and the like of my sceneries. I'm leaning to more towards a donation drive idea and see out that works. Of course 5 Euros is really small for an annual cost if you go that route.

I do have all the libraries for licenses already, ModelConverterX has glTF animation export behind a license and actually scenProc had a license in the past for certain features that were developed exclusively for a commercial project (but after that project failed, I made them generally available). But I think I prefer the donation approach as well. And with the help I have received today I can already cover a big part of the cost for the first year (I don't mind to pay a bit myself as well).

 

[Christian Bahr]

Just one note, for my tools there is a separate donation link: https://www.scenerydesign.org/donations/. I try to keep the money for keeping the website running and for my tools separate.

Ah, I didn't know that.

 

[DragonflightDesign]

I don't use scenProc and I probably never will, but I'd prefer the 'whip round' method (goes off to put his money where his mouth is).

<rant> Subscription models are a blight, especially when as stated above with EmguCV, the yearly subscription price equates to the old perpetual licence and if the subcription fails for any reason, the product quits working. Hundreds of percent increase in profit for doing nothing. I have a subscription to Adobe Photographer's Package (Photoshop plus Lightroom) but before I 'agreed' I calculated how long it would take the subscription to reach the price of the old v6 perpetual licence. It's getting close, so I'm now moving off that to Serif Photo and ON1, both of which are perpetual licences and both of which have drastically reduced annual upgrades which you can either take or not. </rant>

There. That's better

 

[Christian Bahr]

@DragonflightDesign
My software licenses are also only available as a subscription. These are annual recurring license fees. Am I annoyed about that? No, why should I be? Companies have to pay their employees because they don't work for free. But maybe I'm wrong, I'm happy to be proven wrong. In any case, I know what I have in terms of the software and it is definitely worth every single cent (3dsm, photoshop, arcgis)

My point is simply that in all the years that I have been active here in the forum, I have benefited greatly from the knowledge of my fellow developers here, but also from the tools supported here, such as the Airport Design Editor. Arnos's Modelconverter and scenProc are particularly worth mentioning here.

I am happy to support this, even if I am not currently benefiting from it. I have already benefited from it before and can now reward it.
Everyone has 20 EUR or 30 EUR left over, so what are you waiting for?

 

[SkyHighStudios]

Hi!

Even we are not using that softwares we are totally willing to support all of your effort and your work!
Is it possible that we can donate in any other way than PayPal?

 

[DragonflightDesign]

Hi Christian

In terms of a monthly cost, the Adobe Photographer's Package is good value. So is Prepar3D. What usually sets me off on a rant (as above) are those companies which suddenly convert a perpetual licence fee into an annual subscription fee without any change in the cost. That's pure profiteering. Adobe, even with the massive reduction in initial outlay when they changed from perpetual to subscription, admitted that a monthly subscription to the Creative Cloud applications is a bottomless profit well that far outstrips the old perpetual licences. My gripe with Adobe is that if I miss a monthly payment (as happened when a new debit card was issued) Photoshop just quits working. Many (not most) other companies with a monthly subscription just keep you on the current version. Admittedly, Lockheed-Martin are not one of them, but that's the main reason why I want to get away from Adobe.

-Dai

 

[=Hollywood=]

I haven't been using ScenProc for a while as my film work has taken over priorities but I'd definitely want to chip in when I have funds available to support you as you've done so much for us over the years.

One other option could be a licensing agreement if users utilize scenProc in commercial projects, that becomes an administrative pain though. Maybe the best approach would be a hybrid approach like GlobalMapper does with the LIDAR module, keep core functionality on the basic level and then you can buy a key for the more advanced functionality.