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FSX Curved Runways

L

lammy

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ca-ontario
Hello

First of all, I would like to state that I am a noob so please forgive me for any mistakes :p. I am currently making a scenery for FLL (Fort Lauderdale) and as of 2014+ runway 10R/28L has been expanded, as well there is now an incline in the runway. I am using Airport Design Editor, as well as for most of the modeling I use Sketchup. If anybody could tell me how to create a runway that has an incline on it and is still usable to UI aircraft. I don't care about AI using the runway.

Thanks, Ryan
 
For sloping runways you need to 3d model terrain, and harden it. Sadly this is close to impossible to be done in Sketchup but you can give it a try meanwhile I would recommend you to use Blender or gmax for hat.
 
I do have Blender and Gmax (with the fs tools). I am not very proficient with it, but what is the process of creating them? Thanks for the speedy response.
 
I'm only familiar with Blender:
The best way to start is using a heightmap on a grid with the displacement modifier. Then doing some adjustments if the runway is too bumpy.
A texture has to be applied the best way from a licensed sat image (tiled) and detail maps.
Duplicate the terrain model and tag the copy to be a platform, if needed split the copy into different objects so the platforms can consist of different materials (grass, concrete....).
Export and place as a scenery object.
 
Thank you very much for both of those replies. I am assuming this also works for taxiways and aprons. Because FLL has (as well as most airports) don't have all level runways. Thank you again!

Blue Skies, Ryan
 
On a practical basis, in addition to having flown into KFLL in real life and knowing it is essentially flat, Google Earth shows only a 3Ft. height difference from West to East on the RWY axis, and that is likely based on lower resolution data. :idea:

Does this minor difference warrant the use of platforms which can affect ones performance on the overall scenery at the airport (assuming the remainder of the airport is to be detailed) ?

BTW: Sketchup can model terrain easier than most 3D apps, as it has a built-in (and accurate) mechanism to download and import the terrain mesh along with the aerial imagery from Google Maps, and can also import via other methods, 3rd party aerial imagery and elevation data. ;)

GaryGB
 
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GaryGB said:
Google Earth shows only a 3Ft. height difference from West to East on the RWY axis,
GaryGB
Click to expand...

According to both AirNav and SkyVector the 10L/28R goes from 5.5 to 5.2 feet and 10R/28L goes from 10.0 to 64.9 feet. This looks like a good candidate for sloped runways for at least 10R/28L.
 
It is interesting (...if not alarming) to see the diversity of elevations reported for this airport. :eek:

Real world pilots would likely be in possession of the facts before flying into KFLL, although one might wonder how reliable this info is from the AOPA web page for KFLL:

"Elevation: 64 ft (19.5 m) (Surveyed)"

http://www.aopa.org/airports/KFLL


And IMHO, would-be FS developers should IMHO also be in possession of the facts before making even an arbitrary personal-use-only version of this airport.

Perhaps we are so accustomed to the real world irresponsible reporting of airport locations / elevations which has been allowed to be incorporated into the FAA database (and thereby into the MSFS airport database) with resulting troughs / plateaus ...that we might not see a need to check the facts ? :scratchch


First, on a 'practical' basis, KFLL RWY 28R start location is 3 Kilometers West of the Atlantic Ocean shoreline in a 'mostly flat' area of Florida.

The KFLL RWY layout would require reconstruction of the entire airport if even one RWY was ever raised to a substantially higher elevation.


Google Earth "jump" coordinates: 26.194653,-80.168186


The 3 highest natural elevation points in Broward County FL are reportedly in Pine Island Natural Ridge Area at max 29 Feet, 7 Miles SW of KFLL, with a 4th point being SE of the intersection of FL HWY 869 and Interstate 95 in the southern part of Deerfield Beach, 8 miles NE of KFLL.


AFAIK, nearby highway overpass ALTs do not exceed 35 Feet AGL (according to Google Earth).


Some information for Fort Lauderdale Hollywood International (ICAO KFLL) from FAA and USGS shows inconsistencies of reported ALT:

http://aeronav.faa.gov/afd/05mar2015/se_92_05MAR2015.pdf


http://www.airport-data.com/airport/FLL/

"FAA Information Effective: 2013-12-12"

"Elevation: 9 ft / 2.74 m (Surveyed)"


Perhaps also, some 3rd party "airport info" websites may have mis-interpreted FAA info for KFLL (possibly scanned / OCR'd from FAA documents) ?:

http://aeronav.faa.gov/afd/05mar2015/se_92_05MAR2015.pdf



BTW: Perhaps these ALT inconsistencies will no longer be an issue for KFLL in FAA databases in the future when newer data goes online:

http://aca-net.com/projects/airport-projects/ft-lauderdale-hollywood-international-airport-fll/


In the mean time, a cursory survey using 10 Meter DEM data with NAIP 1-Meter aerial imagery and 1-Foot contours overlaid ...shows "the facts":

KFLL_NED10M_NAIP1M_GM1MContours.jpg

One might wonder whether the FAA has in some documents shown (' = Ft.) rather than (" = Inches) for elevation ! o_O


HINT: 60 Inches = 5 Feet :pushpin:


PS: Even Wikipedia seems more 'believable' than the "aviation" sources ...at this point in time: :alert:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Lauderdale–Hollywood_International_Airport


NOTE: Those with an interest in greater precision of analysis (or 'accurate' FS development) at KFLL may wish to access this data:

http://coast.noaa.gov/dataservices/.../data/520/2007_FDEM_South_metadata.xml&f=html


Hope this helps ! :)

GaryGB
 
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Lane Street said:
Is any part of Florida 70' ASL?
Click to expand...

Yes, up in the panhandle you get into the mountains of Florida.


And for KFLL, noting that it's from 2007, the 3m mesh source at USGS shows the highest elevation around the airport is 15m. Of course, once you get off the I-95 freeway overpass it comes down quite a bit. Runways are showing 1-2m elevation.
 
I go to Fort Lauderdale a lot. I don't like flying from there - too busy now - PBI is much more civilized. But the family still tend to use it and when I am here I get shuttle duty. It is pretty flat around here. The highest things I see and the overpasses over the 95 :)
 
A little disconnect from the original topic... But

I am making the apron in Sketchup (all the correct altitudes to my knowledge). After I apply textures, what would be the process for exporting? Also, in Airport Design Editor, how would I set this up so that the taxiways don't show up over the custom scenery. Would I have to lower the elevation of the airport to the lowest elevation?

Thanks, Ryan
 
IMHO you should now make your apron model into a ground polygon. You can do this easily by using the ground polygon wizard which is part of Model Converter X. Export your Sketchup model in collada format. This can be read by the gpw. You will need the lat and lon and the altitude in meters to make the gp. The airport altitude, the airport's flatten altitude and the gp's altitude all should be exactly the same. You do not need to change the airport altitude. By design the ground polygon will show over default aprons, taxiways, and runways.

Ed
 
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