Design Discussion for Sloping Runway Scenery

[Wally-Bob]

The intent of releasing a method for creating sloping runways to the world is to propagate a plethora of freeware offerings to benefit all enthusiasts of the hobby.

Let the discussion begin and lets' build 'em.

Wally-Bob

 

[scruffyduck]

Hi Wally-Bob and welcome to FS Developer

 

[Tejal Bernardo]

Really interesting issue, to get airports with his real profile, many sceneries would be improved a lot, thanks for the tutorial

 

[Wally-Bob]

Jaacck,

Referring to JY43 Hill Top Airport, I didn’t build platforms. On page 22 of the tutorial I built the “simple” (read fastest to make) platform to illustrate a point. That platform is rectangular at 1.64KB. If I built JY43 with platforms, only 3 of which would be rectangular and 2 would have enough sides to be considered curved. 14 rectangular “simple” platforms (read objects) would be 22.96KB. Now figure out how many rectangular platforms necessary for a curved appearance and the object count … SRX_JY43_v1_w-b.bgl, the entire Sloping Runway FSX, taxiways and hangar parking area contains one object, a single triangular polygon. The complete BGL file is 3.07KB.

Try this, turn off (rename as *_bgl.off) every file in JY43 except the SRX and fire up the simulator. There is nothing to see. The sloping runway is there and it is invisible. Why? Effect triggers are invisible.

Not to say 22.96KB or even 1MB and hundreds of objects would cause stutters on a high end system, but good practice is not to add unnecessary objects, polygons, vertices etc. to get the results you want. Does JY43 Hill Top Airport stutter on your rig?

_w-b

 

[GaryGB]

Hello:

Developers may find information on suppressing the "dirt effect" on custom photoreal surfaces intended to be rendered as "hardened surfaces" without the frame-rate hit of a "hardened platform attachment" with FSX sceneries... via SCASM SurfaceType code and edits of the XML code for airport aprons in this thread:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18345&highlight=SCASM+runway+effect

NOTE: This particular SCASM tweak reportedly DOES WORK compatibly in FSX !


Apparently Arno has further implemented this tweak into his ModelConverterX tool as described here:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showpost.php?p=120493&postcount=20



...Also see rhumbaflappy's reply at:

http://www.ptsim.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1731&p=7299#p7299



PS: Please see the discussion regarding additional considerations with airport design as relates to this issue and the topic(s) above in this thread:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=77831



Hope this simplifies the work-flow with regard to this issue !

GaryGB

 

[arno]

Hi,

What Gary mentions is a ModelConverterX function to convert BGLComp XML aprons to the SCASM SurfaceType command. I once made that because I wanted to suppress the dirt on a resample photo scenery.

Let me know if this feature is used by others as well, I might be able to make it a little more user friendly if others also use it .

 

[Wally-Bob]

Arno,

If I understand the SCASM Surface Type command method;

1. A terrain hugging hardened surface effect is placed regardless of the texture rendered including FSX default.

2. The hardened surface effect would take precedence if it was resident in the highest priority layer of those that define the surface type of the rendered scene.

Correct?

_w-b

 

[Wally-Bob]

Arno,

If I understand the SCASM Surface Type command method...

_w-b

Answer: No I didn't understand the SCASM method. I didn't even know about the SCAM method until recently from these current posts here. I looked at some scenery done with the SCASM Surface Type method and found:

1. The Hardened Surface Effect is attached to an object (model) surface not the terrain.

2. Layer priority does not apply to objects. (barring object excludes of coarse)

So if I am now correct, the following is the conclusion:

The end result of the SCASM vs. Platform method is the same. Intuitively, the in simulator performance should be identical for the identical scenery written by both methods.

The preference for development method will be based upon the developers familiarity with available tools. The quality of either method's results are dependent on the developer's attention to detail, particularly the placement of the object/model with respect to the underlying terrain.

Comments welcomed.

_w-b

 

[rhumbaflappy]

The SCASM SurfaceType command applies to the terrain... which is why you need to define an area.

A platform sticks to the object as an attachment.

The difference is this. If your platform doesn't exactly match the terrain mesh, there may be problems.

Dick

 

[Wally-Bob]

Dick,

Then it seems my first premise was the correct one and what I thought was a SCASM scenery was actually a platform scenery.

Do you know of a SCASM method scenery file I could look at?

_w-b

 

[rhumbaflappy]

Here's an XML stub I made in ADE named test.xml:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<!-- Created by Scenery Design Engine (SDE) on 9/3/2011 -->
<FSData
   version="9.0"
   xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
   xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="bglcomp.xsd">
   <Airport
      country="United States"
      state="Wisconsin"
      city="Delavan"
      name="Lake Lawn"
      lat="42.6341250166297"
      lon="-88.6011305451393"
      alt="299.008M"
      magvar="2"
      trafficScalar="0.7"
      airportTestRadius="5000.0M"
      ident="C59"
      >
       <Aprons>     
<Apron
   surface="CONCRETE"
   drawSurface="TRUE"
   drawDetail="TRUE">
   <Vertex
      lat="42.6417044642742"
      lon="-88.6014825836115"/>
   <Vertex
      lat="42.6416412572568"
      lon="-88.6004961210392"/>
   <Vertex
      lat="42.628304567801"
      lon="-88.6023401197018"/>
   <Vertex
      lat="42.628304567801"
      lon="-88.6031119683102"/>
</Apron>
      </Aprons>
   </Airport>
</FSData>

I ran this through Arno's ModelConverterX using his Special Tools|XML Apron to SCASM Converter.

Header( 1 42.6417044642742 42.628304567801 -88.6031119683102 42.628304567801 )
LatRange( 42.628304567801 42.6417044642742 )
Area( 5 42.6349887142832 -88.6018576981657 22 )
RefPoint( 7 : 0.1 42.6349887142832 -88.6018576981657 v1= 2000 v2= 2000 )
SenseBorder( :t0
307 7463
1115 7393
-395 -7428
)
:t0
SenseBorder( :t1
307 7463
-395 -7428
-1027 -7428
)
:t1
:st
SurfaceType( 0 20000 20000 0 )
EndA

I then altered the surfacetype to water as per the SCASM docs:

SurfaceType( 2 20000 20000 0 )

Sinking in the "water":

Dick

 

[Wally-Bob]

Dick,

Got it. Understood. Thanks.

Observation: layer priority does not apply.

Next premise, surface type has a generic priority as:

1. Hardened
2. Water
3. Land

meaning that a SCASM water surface area placed in a higher priority layer would not "overwrite" a SCASM hardened surface in the same area placed in a lower priority layer.

Is this correct?

_w-b

 

[rhumbaflappy]

Not sure...

 

[Wally-Bob]

Dick,

Tested my above generic surface type priority premise, it is correct.

_w-b

 

[FrostySoftware]

Is there any way to do this from 3DS/GMAX? I have a groundpoly drawn out as an editable poly but performance is terrible when it's placed in FSX as an asphalt platform.

 

[Wally-Bob]

As far as I know, the only SCASM method is Arno's ModelConverterX as described above.

For the platform method, simplify the shape as much as possible. Try to use only the hardened surfaces. The idea is to get the polygon count down as far as you can and still achieve your goals.

_w-b

 

[FrostySoftware]

As far as I know, the only SCASM method is Arno's ModelConverterX as described above.

For the platform method, simplify the shape as much as possible. Try to use only the hardened surfaces. The idea is to get the polygon count down as far as you can and still achieve your goals.

_w-b

Ok, thanks