• Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:

    • Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
    • Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
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    • Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
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    Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.

    By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.

FSX Flattens

A

Aviasim

Guest
Hi, I dont know where to post this so I will post here and will be moved to correct section.


Heres the problem, my Leicestershire Aeroclub X is not compatible with Orbx England or VFR GenX Vol 2.

I had a customer reporting mesh issue with both, so, I made my own mesh and created a flatten in SBuilderX, all is fine now, looks amazing etc however, you can very clearly see where the flatten is as there are very sharp, steep cliffs around the whole airport.

Do any of you know how I can have this flatten slowly blend in to my custom mesh?

highly appreciate any help
 
Messages
7,450
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us-illinois
Hello:

George Davison (aka "Golf-Hotel Delta") has posted examples of terrain "skirts" which are specially constructed sloped flatten triangles that surround- and intersect with- vertices of the central airport flatten and the underlying terrain mesh which surrounds the terrain skirt itself. :idea:

Triangle vertex elevations of a terrain skirt (or "Kilt" ...or "Kilted Flatten" :p ! ) must match elevations of the central airport flatten vertices, and the surrounding terrain mesh vertices ...where they intersect, thereby keeping the edges of all adjacent triangles in exact alignment with each other (even when they are sloped or "tilted"); this allows the FS terrain engine to map ex: textures onto it as a continuous surface. :alert:

This is essentially the process of creating a "TIN" (Triangulated Irregular Network). ;)

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&gs_rn=...598,d.aWM&fp=97443b2ca834c05d&biw=939&bih=601



You may wish to check out some of these links:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&gs_rn=...598,d.aWM&fp=97443b2ca834c05d&biw=939&bih=601

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforu...5-Ranger-Creek&p=287437&viewfull=1#post287437



PS: This question would probably be a good topic for the "FSX Terrain" sub-forum here at FSDeveloper


Hope this helps ! :)

GaryGB
 
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Messages
213
Country
germany
Make use of Legacy_LWM_Land_Flatten in SBuilderX:
Legacy_LWM_Land_Flatten_01.jpg

You can easily assign individual altitudes to each individual Point!
Legacy_LWM_Land_Flatten_02.jpg
 
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7,450
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us-illinois
Hello again, "HF":

Indeed, one can also use the legacy LWM3 type sloped / tilted flatten polygons in FSX (instead of the CVX vector type compiled by SHP2VEC), as that legacy LWM3 type is still able to be displayed ...unlike legacy Area16N "flat" flattens which are not displayed by the FSX rendering engine.

Thanks for reminding us of that LWM3 sloped flatten option for FSX ! :)

GaryGB
 
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203
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ca-britishcolumbia
Would it also be possible to make a "sloped ramp" on which amphib aircraft could
taxi out of the water onto land?

Rather than making a ramp in GMax?

Ken
 
A

Aviasim

Guest
Right sorry but this thread seems to be drifting off topic, if you want to know about flattens for amphibian aircraft write a new thread, I want to try find THEE way to do a flatten for an ordinary airfield but so the flatten blends nicely to the mesh
 
A

Aviasim

Guest
Will check it out, but Gary Summons of UK2000 seems to be using a method which would be useful for every scenery developer to know but unfortunately he doesnt want to say what it is yet he scours the FSDeveloper forums learning how to do other things that developers on here happily share for other developers.

Flattens and sloped flattens in SbuilderX or ADE are hard, no seperations or anything, but look at this, one polygon with many sections, one object, and he says the sloped flattens automatically blend in to the surrounding mesh...wish it was that simple for us, I am sorry but this is really P*****g me off now!

Here : http://www.uk2000scenery.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=414.0;attach=148;image

You see he has just only polygon object divided many times, outer edge where the slopes begin, then up to the center where it turns yellow in which will be airport alt...this is exactley what we need, or to find out how to do these instead of flattens that look like this: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/204/kbtv.jpg/

There you see the flatten that is just one poly with many vertexes on the boarder of the flatten...no sections or anything meaning you WILL see cliffs!
 
Messages
506
Country
unitedstates
Doesn't Luis require a license for SBuilderX files in commercial scenery?

Yes, commercial work requires a license.

Please ask this in your own thread, it is off topic.

Darren, lose the attitude. Otherwise you aren't likely to find the help you want.

You've posted no pictures showing what the problem is, so how can anyone accurately give assistance?

There are ways to properly blend mesh into a flatten, but are you willing to purchase the tools to make it happen?

BTW, this is a terrain issue and should have been made in the corresponding terrain forum, not the General Chit-chat forum.
 
A

Aviasim

Guest
Yes, commercial work requires a license.



Darren, lose the attitude. Otherwise you aren't likely to find the help you want.

You've posted no pictures showing what the problem is, so how can anyone accurately give assistance?

There are ways to properly blend mesh into a flatten, but are you willing to purchase the tools to make it happen?

BTW, this is a terrain issue and should have been made in the corresponding terrain forum, not the General Chit-chat forum.

Im just saying, he is posting a question in a thread that will make the thread go off-topic.

I dont really need to make pictures, I just want to make a flatten for my airport and make the flatten slowly blend out to the surrounding mesh used by Orbx England.

I did say I didnt know where to post this.

If I dont get help to sort this, then users will see cliffs around the airport if they are not using default mesh. The airport is at its correct real world altitude, it would just be nice to make it so there are no cliffs or strange mesh issues when using Orbx England or VFR Gen X
 

scruffyduck

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I agree. This thread is getting very scrappy. It is certainly possible to blend flattens into the mesh using ADE. There is a technique that uses triangles to achieve this. It may be that some folks have a tool to make the job easier. If such a tool does exist then as far as I know it has not been made available to the general community and if that tool is benefiting a commercial developer then I can't see any reason for them to make it available.
 
A

Aviasim

Guest
I agree. This thread is getting very scrappy. It is certainly possible to blend flattens into the mesh using ADE. There is a technique that uses triangles to achieve this. It may be that some folks have a tool to make the job easier. If such a tool does exist then as far as I know it has not been made available to the general community and if that tool is benefiting a commercial developer then I can't see any reason for them to make it available.

Just wanted to keep a thread on topic Scruffyduck :)

Please do you know about how I would go to blend flattens smoothly and seamlessly to mesh using ADE?
 

scruffyduck

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Unfortunately I just create tools for others to use :eek: However as I said the general idea seems to be to create a series of sloped flatten triangles that bridge the difference between the airport flatten and the surrounding mesh.

Perhaps one of the guys who actually knows what they are doing (rather than me) will chip in :)
 
A

Aviasim

Guest
Rite, here is a picture:

dd_zps97154115.png


These 2 are drawn in 3ds max...

The shape on the left has lots of vertexes around the border...none in the middle, no skirt....just like the polygon you would create in SBuilderX or ADE, however, you will see cliffs!

The shape on the right is how I want my flatten, it has a skirt...which would allow for it to slope into the surrounding mesh....the vertexes on the outside will be at ground level...the vertexes on the inside will be at the altitude of my airport....making the airport flat, but sloped to surrounding mesh.

I am unable to do this in SBuilderX or ADE, Gary Summons of UK2000 can create flatten polys like the poly you see on the right, where its just one shape but many polys for the skirt and outer vertexes that go on the ground and inner vertexes that will be at airport altitude.

Now i hope you all understand.

If i cant get this sorted, EGBG for FSX wont be compatible with orbx england mesh or vfr gen x mesh unless they didnt mind seeing cliffs or if they were to disable the mesh and use default
 

HolgerSandmann

Resource contributor
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392
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ca-britishcolumbia
Hi Darren,

if you load the file ADE_FTX_ENG_EGBG_CVX.bgl, in \ORBX\FTX_EU\FTX_EU_ENG_05_SCENERY\scenery, into TMFViewer.exe, you can inspect our version of the sloped flattens at EGBG. These were manually placed in ADE, along with similar ones for more than 180 airports in FTX ENG. In other words, it may be tedious to place sloped flattens in this manner but it's not hard once you have figured out a workflow.

When I place sloped flattens (I didn't make those for FTX ENG and actually prefer SBuilderX) I turn off all autogen, slew around the airport along the surface to check how far out each sloped flatten polygon should reach, and use TCalcX to read out the local altitude for each polygon vertex. Other people use other approaches meaning you just figure out what works best for you.

The alternative approach is to use Global Mapper or similar GIS tools to blend you main airport flatten (platform) into your terrain mesh file, which is actually the approach ACES used for many of the default airports. The drawback is that you don't have fine control over the gradient of the surrounding slopes unless you go really fancy/complex and use more than a single fixed blending distance.

Cheers, Holger
 
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7,450
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us-illinois
Hi Darren:

There is a lot of hard-earned / well-tested insight in what Holger posted above to this thread, which merits thorough consideration. :teacher:


BTW: Keep this in mind: :rolleyes:

For sloped / tilted flattens, THE FSX RENDERING ENGINE WORKS WITH TRIANGLES... NOT RECTANGLES !

Also, like other "precision" vector content, scenery flatten polygons (whether FSX "CVX" flattens or legacy FS8 / FS9 LWM 'flat' or LWM3 'sloped / tilted' FSX-compatible flattens) are also aliased by FS to the vertices of nearby quad matrix grid Area Points (1/256th of a LOD quad span in Meters per side), which is the closest achievable inter-point distance for terrain vertices in FS, based on how one has enabled those terrain vertices via the ex: FSX terrain mesh resolution slider.



As to the steps involved in making Sloped / Tilted Flattens: ;)


In SBuilderX Menu:

1.) Click Help > SBuilderX Help > Search Tab

2.) Enter the word "Slope", then Click "List Topics"

NOTE: "Working With Points, Lines and Polygons" = only hit returned on "List Topics" Search)

3.) Click "Working With Points, Lines and Polygons", then Click "Display"

4.) In SBuilderX Help right-side Window Pane, scroll down to "Set Altitude"



As an additional example of Sloping Polygons, refer to the ADE9X English Manual:

1.) Browse: Start > Programs > Airport Design Engine > Documentation > ( ex: ) Manual English v1.50.4402 Beta.pdf

2.) In that PDF Document, Navigate to: 15.2.3 Sloping Polygons (Pages 220 - 222)



As I have posted elsewhere in threads here at FS Developer, one of the proprietary tools used to create the UK2000 airport terrain skirts was developed by George Davison (aka "Golf-Hotel Delta"), who is 'Assistant Designer' with the UK2000 scenery organization.

Over the years, George has kindly taken the time to post a number of helpful illustrations here at FS Developer, of the more complex terrain skirts he uses around airports, along with general conceptual descriptions of how to make such sloped flattens; in each of them, IIRC, he clearly identifies the need to use TRIANGLES to make such structures as a "network" of sloped flattens.


Alternatively, Holger's recommendation to examine:

[FSX install path]\ORBX\FTX_EU\FTX_EU_ENG_05_SCENERY\scenery\ADE_FTX_ENG_EGBG_CVX.bgl

...in:

[FSX SDK install path]\SDK\Environment Kit\Terrain SDK\TmfViewer.exe

...shows that one can make less complex skirts around airports, which may also work as well as those George has previously shown us. :wizard:


Hope this helps ! :)

GaryGB
 
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7,450
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us-illinois
Would it also be possible to make a "sloped ramp" on which amphib aircraft could
taxi out of the water onto land?

Rather than making a ramp in GMax?

Ken

Hi Ken:

The sloped flatten on the ground would already be "hardened", therefore it would likely not need to be made in a 3D modeling app as a scenery object with a 'concrete' attribute, hardened platform attached to a flat plane set just beneath the surface ...as is discussed elsewhere.


But if you are interested in other possibilities with seaplane ramps, see:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showpost.php?p=145713&postcount=7


Hope this helps ! :)


< And now we return you (promptly) to Darren's thread ...which is already in progress ! ;) >

GaryGB
 
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