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Flightsim.to new business model and terms of service leaves content creators without rights to their own work

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We probably don't want to polarize the situation. The TOS is problematic, that fact does not establish flightsim.to as evil, nefarious, or any of these other superlatives. The idea of a business model, to set up in a free port and then profit off of stolen amateur content, is not only laughable, it is, almost literally and except fore here, unthinkable. Work it out, maintain the precious boundaries, but let's not vilanize anyone, simply to justify our conviction.
 
Marc L said:
Wow, I "love" how they banned @darshonaut and @CanadianCaptainMoustache from fs.to just for asking questions on DISCORD (not the website).... It confirms that we are right AND that we are also right about where this is going (Freeware behind paywall, Addond reuploaded without consent and maybe as payware etc) Waw flightsim.to just destroyed themselves...

@KL791 I 1000% Agree with these!
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I never talked to them on discord, that was Cap. Moustache who said that.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread I tried to delete my files as it was said this would work until the 5th of march.
As it only worked for some of them, I uploaded text files for others and mentioned the file is deleted thereby.
Many of my files I did exactly nothing with and left them as they were. I had about 50 files on their site, some of them were only flightplans or simple autopilot mods, some were small airstrips in Germany and some African countries or South America or Papua.
I have three larger addons, which I am now hosting on my own website.

Obviously, me according to them breaking ToS with my uploads and then banning me from purchases I made is an interesting move.
I think it was one 15 EUR aircraft (Stream TL Ultralight) and 4 airports by CAELUS I bought in a sale.
They did not mention explicitly what the reason for the ban is, but frankly, I have moved on, as explained.
I won't lose any sleep over the addons that I bought . (I have them archived)

May they live a happy and long life.
 
simmershome said:
They must always grant access to purchased addons, no matter what the disagreements are.
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must and will are not always the same.

I had the discussion with Simmarket. I bought this Germany roads (from tourbet?), It was so broken that all roads in MSFS flickered. a return has been ruled out because the developer has not agreed. then I opened a PayPal case and PayPal frozen the 10€ at Simmarket. the 10€ were worth it to Simmarket to block my account including all addons bought. a hint on my part to the withholding of my other addons I got the reference to the terms and conditions: "Simmarket is not obliged to offer your purchases permanently for download, make backups...". so much on the subject, that can also be overturned
 
darshonaut said:
I never talked to them on discord, that was Cap. Moustache who said that.
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Opps, you are right, I missread that! sorry

simmershome said:
They must always grant access to purchased addons, no matter what the disagreements are.
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I Agree with you, You litterally paid for them, even if it was 1€, I wouldn't feel like nothing happened :/

Thanksfully, I never purshased anything there, only used the FREEWARE addons and liveries made by commulity!
 
onlinetk said:
I had the discussion with Simmarket.
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Yes, the methods are becoming more and more restrictive because the market is literally flooded with a lot of junk, too.

And topic
I considered hosting my addons there right at the beginning because of the range and decided against it. 99% of .to domains are used to avoid any legal action or to make it extremely difficult. You are always the fool if you put yourself in the hands of the operators of such domains. I had also voiced my concerns on German sites and was then hated for it. Unfortunately, I was right.
 
I think the best approach is to use the DCMA Takedown Request

DCMA Takedown

If you Google “file dmca takedown request” it’ll give links to a free option.

Alternately you can get ChatGPT to help generate it:

[Your Name and Contact Information] [Date]

[Recipient's Name and Contact Information] [Website or Platform Name] [Address]

Dear [Recipient's Name],

I am writing to request a Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) takedown of the infringing material available on your platform [Website or Platform Name].

I am the owner of the copyright for [Name of Product], and I have discovered that this product is being infringed upon on your platform without my permission. The following is a description of the infringing material:

[Description of the infringing material, including the URLs or other identifying information]

This material is a clear violation of my copyright, and I ask that you remove it immediately to prevent any further unauthorized use. I am making this request in accordance with the DMCA, which requires online service providers to respond to copyright infringement claims and remove infringing content.

I certify under penalty of perjury that the information provided in this notice is accurate and that I am authorized to act on behalf of the copyright owner. I also understand that any false statement may result in civil or criminal penalties.

Please let me know when the infringing material has been removed. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

Sincerely,

[Your Name]
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Im on the team "lets calm down and see if there is a way to fix this mess". Im not sure going at war against them is the most productive way of doing things. Im also not sure (well i am actually) they really really dont know how to handle this, and are digging their hole a little deeper each time they communicate. They should regroup, think about it, send a few DMs to the top devs on their platform, asking to collaborate and see if they can salvage a deal with you all. Essentially do what @KL791 did, layout some reasonable terms, tailor made for the platform, and not some copypasta of awful ToS that are widely used (wich doesnt make it any less awful btw).
As an outsider, having no content there, doing only payware, and knowing nothing about the law, it looks quite easy to fix. :D
 
leprechaunlive said:
As an outsider, having no content there, doing only payware, and knowing nothing about the law, it looks quite easy to fix. :D
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I have always hosted everything myself. Then you have less radius, but no less good addons. For me, it's a hobby. So I build for the fun of it, just like others fly for the fun of it. You don't earn anything from flying either, so I don't have to do that with development. And whoever wants to find me will find me, or he won't. It's as simple as that. However, I don't see my hobby as an object to finance a business model for third parties. I would never subject myself to such conditions, not for all the clicks in the world.

It doesn't have to be written on my tombstone: He had a million downloads:D
 
Late last year, we found out that FS.TO did not allow us to delete our free sceneries and landmarks from their website.
We sent messages to them : no replies.
We decided to react by "updating" our files : we uploaded one single image to replace every original files.
Many FS.TO members complained about our decision.
But we fully eplained why we had no alternative but to scuttle our own creations.

Behave with FS.TO as they behave with you !

SPINOZA Team
 
Too many bad actors roam our shores. Now is this New Pirate. Some years ago another one went out of business with one guy at the helm, never paid what he own, and another came in to scam again. It never stops, so be very careful where you upl;oaad your stuff. I now have only one place I upload for they are serious and responsible people and the other is my own store. I suggest if you have Payware or Freeware stuff that you open your store and forget the Pirates for ever....


rollingcumulus.com

HOME & STORE

rollingcumulus.com rollingcumulus.com
 
Most of us have been pretty rough on Flightsim.to. I don't believe their intentions are villainous, but perhaps insensitive regarding their freeware contributors. Changing terms without contacting each contributor with a removal option was not a good idea.

The bottom line is they need to allow freeware contributors the unlimited option to delete their content. As far as their terms of service, I could care less... don't upload if you do not agree to the terms. Or delete your content if the terms are not what you like after contemplating their ramifications. It is very simple. Unlimited deletion. No time limits or jumping through their hoops. Another option for Flightsim.to is to remove all freeware content. Problem solved.

Until that occurs, if you are uneasy with your stuff at Flightsim.to, request the removal of your items, or do as Dean described above (DCMA removal). And I still advise members to NOT upload to their site until this is resolved. Unlimited, unrestricted, unimpeded ability to remove your content forever is required to re-establish community trust.
 
When any commercial entity online changes it's ToS or Privacy Policy, etc... things that are legally binding... they notify any account that it has to agree to the new terms. They also provide the ability to close out one's account if one choses to not agree to the new terms. They can not force you to agree to new terms.

This situation with FS.TO is honestly probably not legal in that they failed to provide a method for users who do not agree to the terms to cancel their account, which would also require any and all files uploaded to be deleted as the old agreement would be legally null and void. Even if the old ToS had an "in perpetuity" clause... the new ToS would null the old ToS and thus the old agreement is vacated.

The ToS should also provide information regarding what laws the ToS are administered under (jurisdiction). If it does not, then typically the jurisdiction is based on the user's locale and not the server/business. There's a reason this information is in a ToS. A ToS is basically an End User's License Agreement... for a web site. :)
 
Just copy/-paste:
1677001466320.png

See also: https://fselite.net/content/flightsim-to-proposes-terms-of-service-changes-after-backlash/
 
If this is implemented, and left alone!, then I am optimistic that Flightsim.to can regain it's status as a great repository for freeware MSFS addons. Time will tell.
 
I still see many other items which needs to be corrected eg their right to modify files, they need to revise their ToS profoundly, make it understandable, non-contradictory, communication of acceptance of future changes and, and... In my view they are coming a bit out of the bush because they are under heavy pressure, but still they do the same mistake of just trying to patch rather than really make a profound change. That mistake has costed many great companies their life. Yesterday I received a mail from Sketchfab on changes to their terms; simple language; well explained; 1 month for contributors to accept. It was so nice to see.
 
KL791 said:
Yesterday I received a mail from Sketchfab on changes to their terms; simple language; well explained; 1 month for contributors to accept. It was so nice to see.
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I got the same email. Very well done.
 
Some more insight in this post (copy past from flightsim.to Discord):
forums.flightsimulator.com

Flightsim.to and 3rd Party Developers Dispute

Chris from Flightsim.to has shared a quite long statement on the Discord server, thought I’d put it here for you guys. @WombiiActual / Wombii We’re going to introduce a version number on the terms page and the ability to review the older terms for a reasonable period of time. E-mails are also...
forums.flightsimulator.com forums.flightsimulator.com
 
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