• Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:

    • Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
    • Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
    • Questions about aircraft design can be posted in the Aircraft design forum
    • Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
    • Questions about terrain design can be posted in the FS2020 terrain design forum.
    • Questions about SimConnect can be posted in the SimConnect forum.

    Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.

    By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.

FSX: Hold Shorts radius

Andrew

Andrew

Messages
783
Country
norway
At ENGM I tried to set the Hold Shorts according to reality...but got into problems with AI planes "popping" away into thin air. So I checked the radius, and in order to get things to work correcly, I had to move the Hold Shorts closer to the runway. Which is unrealistic at ENGM.

Is there anyway I can manipulate the Hold Short radius...increase it?

Cheers,
Andrew :stirthepo
 
Andrew said:
At ENGM I tried to set the Hold Shorts according to reality...but got into problems with AI planes "popping" away into thin air. So I checked the radius, and in order to get things to work correcly, I had to move the Hold Shorts closer to the runway. Which is unrealistic at ENGM.

Is there anyway I can manipulate the Hold Short radius...increase it?

Cheers,
Andrew :stirthepo
Click to expand...


The rules on hold short distances changed with FSX I think. I am not sure if they guys have figured it all out yet. In FS9 there was a fixed distance and if the hold short was further away than that distance you would get problems. IN FSX I seem to remember it is more complicated and might relate to aircraft size as well.
 
Doug Matthews from Microsoft posted some information about how the default hold short nodes are set - the formula is based on runway width.

Lee Swordy stated in the AFCAD2 readme
The maximum distance seems to be just over 230 feet, but it is best to keep it under 225 feet (68.6 m) to be safe. Note that the maximum distance is from the edge of the runway, not the center line.
Click to expand...

After some posts concerning behavior at KLAS Rwy 19L takeoffs - I did some testing. I've since gone back are repeated the same tests with FS2004, and observed basically the same results.

Basically 225 feet appears to be a workable minimum for all but the smallest AI and user aircraft. The actual minimum distance does appear to be farther for larger aircraft - but tests of different model B747 aircraft of the same model radius and wing_span show some variation - because the reference point of the aircraft was different.

My basic test is to take KBAD and use the C taxiway. Set the aircraft as a user aircraft and taxi toward the runway, stopping immediately when the option to request takeoff appears in the ATC menu. I then can test the same aircraft as AI.

I've seen some very small Cessna's have to be within 185 feet of the runway, and some large B747 aircraft the hold short can be up to 550 feet from the runway.

Another item which quickly became clear is that if the aircraft taxi's over a hold short anywhere along the runway which is close enough - the final hold short does not have to be that close to the runway.

i.e. Where Taxiway S makes the little jag toward the 9R/27L runway at EGLL puts large AI and user aircraft within the runway range.

The short answer for ENGM is that the hold short nodes have to be that close, or the AI aircraft will not takeoff.

It does not matter if it is realistic or not - that is the way FS works.

You can "cheat" with FSX which you cannot with FS2004. You can set hold short nodes at the realistic location, then closer to the runway set a second hold short node - but set the properties on the closest to the runway node as HOLD_SHORT_NO_DRAW

That will give you a functional hold short node with no runway markings. The AI behavior might appear a little unrealistic, but only people who are extremely familiar with the airport operation will notice the difference.
 
Thank you for this great insight!

I`ll stick to the MS rules. As you say...only people that are extremely familiar with the airport will notice such "details". Actualy I can move my Hold Shorts a little back now, just have to keep the radius synced with the rwy end line and not the centerline...which will make things much better visually.

Cheers,
Andrew :stirthepo
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top