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Fumblings from a newbie

Francois

Francois

FSDevConf team
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Well, after 2 years I guess I'm not a total newbie anymore. On the other hand, I think you'll need at least 5 years to become anywhere near proficient in model building.... :D

So I made a crude LCT (Landing Craft -Tank) and am now working on a set of German WW2 bunkers. I have found a book with all the Regelbau plans (the standard bunker models the Germans used) and would like to share some of my attempts, tips and frustrations here.
Who knows, it may serve someone who is getting started, like me.

I started work on a model 401, a FLAK bunker that had an anti aircraft gun on top. It looked the most simple..... *cough*. Actually there is a hugely complex model on the Sketchup library, complete with all fittings and furniture inside, but that thing would STOP FSX from running. So I'll build my own.

I use a plugin to make the nice rounded corners that many bunkers had....
it is called RoundCorners: http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=20485

The TROUBLE with this trick is that the rounded corners are VERY difficult to manipulate afterwards. Like I've been trying for days to cut a door in one, that I forgot.

Another thing I have learned is that while LEARNING, do just that: learn. Then when you have finally figured out how to do something, START ANEW.
Endless experimenting and modifying does NOT provide a good model in the end.

So...... I am now working on my third version of the simple little bunker..... attached are M1 and M2...... :D
 

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Hi Francois,

Looks nice! Just keep the number of polygons reasonably low - Sketchup models can really get out of hand very rapidly. :) When in doubt, do the modeling in the textures, rather than in the 3D model.
 
Yes Tom, I will do my best on that. I also am at the 4th version of the same bunker already..... it gets more efficient every time :-)
One of the problems I find with texturing Sketchup (and maybe Gmax and 3DSMax as well) is that you either need to have 'separate surfaces' to texture details on OR you need to have a fitting texture for a large area. The former makes for more polygons, the latter requires a complete surface of one side of a model.
 
Hi Francois:

Good to see you're having some fun with your latest project ! :cool:


Working with curved surfaces is daunting sometimes. :o


As you may know, a few things can help when working with curved surfaces: :idea:


* Sketchup Menu > View > "check" to turn on display of Hidden Geometry



* Use Fredo6's "Tools on Surface" (...to draw lines, and thereby enable manipulation of 3D geometry on curved surfaces as needed):

http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=323&t=11212#p76625

http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=28171#p244458



* When texturing 1 side of a curved, multi-face / multi-edge surface with a 1-piece texture (to minimize DrawCalls):

1.) Apply the texture via "The Projection method"

...Or:

2.) Apply the texture via "The Hidden Lines / Adjacent Faces Approach"

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-add-photos-to-curved-surfaces-in-google-ske.html

http://www.sketchupwoodplans.com/2011/05/03/adding-materials-curved-faces-approaches/

http://www.pushpullbar.com/forums/showthread.php?128-Wrapping-textures-on-curved-surfaces


Hope these ideas might prove helpful ! :)


PS: I've also had a bit of fun recently with some "bunkers" over at KEWL (...or maybe I was just going "bonkers" in solitary confinement ?) ! :D

GaryGB
 
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Francois said:
Another thing I have learned is that while LEARNING, do just that: learn. Then when you have finally figured out how to do something, START ANEW.
Endless experimenting and modifying does NOT provide a good model in the end.

:D
Click to expand...
I think the same here. one can lost much more time trying to guess how this work.thiking we will learn on the way. :D
Sketchup is great but must be carefull and try to minimeze the Frame rate. one have to make textures sheets to texture the surfaces, saving a lot of textures.
 
Hi Gary ! Sorry for your loneliness........ as an aside, did I mention I have a developer working on Emma Field in the deepest secret? I am not going to shout it from the roofs anymore..... he might let me down too as have so many others ;-)

Yes, I use Fredo6. The Projection Method I didn't know yet, will experiment. THANKS !!!

Francois
 
Hi,

View the hidden geometry and unsoften/unsmooth the lines.

Oops, sorry, Gary, you were first.
 
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Francois said:
Hi Gary ! Sorry for your loneliness........ as an aside, did I mention I have a developer working on Emma Field in the deepest secret? I am not going to shout it from the roofs anymore..... he might let me down too as have so many others ;-)

Yes, I use Fredo6. The Projection Method I didn't know yet, will experiment. THANKS !!!

Francois
Click to expand...

Yup, we've been missing you (...and at least "1" of your other persona's), so we hope to see you there again ASAP ! ;)


Thanks for the update... what with multiple efforts underway to enhance the scenery of that beautiful area in the Olympic Peninsula for several versions of FS, I'm confident KEWL will once again be a lively and fun place sometime soon ! :cool:



PS: Here's a nice Aidan Chopra video on the "Projection Method":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHsRRLCAOm8



Also, here's a video (in Russian) showing ease of use with "Tools on Surface" to draw lines (...which can be cut / extruded for doors, windows, gun ports, ventilators etc.):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBNJLLdCZbU



Alternatively, one can use the "Intersection" method to draw lines on curved surfaces (...which can be cut / extruded for doors, windows, gun ports, ventilators etc.):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KhaD6PBVa0


Hope these ideas make building your bunkers even easier ! :)

GaryGB
 
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Gary, I want you on my National Security Advisory team when I am President of the USA in 2020. Seriously you have details on EVERYTHING!
You are the man.

How big is the Iranian 492 Tectonic plate platform and what is its range?

(Now watch the CIA bust in my door in the morning asking how I came to know of the Tectonic plate platform 492, who Im working for and how much they paid me.)
 
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Hi Kevin:

Thanks for the kind words. :o


< Ahem > ...Now, please direct me to that Government Agency in charge of detecting inbound Meteorites arriving during the daytime... :rotfl:


But seriously, I sometimes wonder if "The Average Man" couldn't run this country better than so-called "Experts". :rolleyes:


I rather like the idea of the humble accountant played by Charles Grodin in the movie "Dave" driving up to the White House in his beat-up car to consult with his friend the President, then promptly identifying budgetary waste, and setting forth a truly balanced budget for the future of the country. :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D89VFP-BBas



BTW: In the 60's and 70's, "The Man" had a different connotation ! :cool:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man



Some days, Google is my "friend". ;)

GaryGB
 
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Ha, I know what 'The Man' meant !! :D:D He chased us when we played soccer on forbidden lawns in the park!

As for the Russian tutorial: Gary you really overestimate my linguistic abilities ! ;)

But thanks for the links..... I won't have time to start my Sketchup because of digesting all that info today ! :eek:
 
Hi Francois:

I certainly might have thought it possible with your known extensive linguistic abilities, and considering your numerous trips in and out of the Eastern Bloc, that you might just speak Russian. :p

But, that video (even without sound) was the only one I could find (in a cursory search) which showed that feature of Fredo6's "Tools On Surface" actually drawing "various shapes on various shapes" ...with impunity. ;)



PS: Speaking of "The Man":

IMHO it's humorous to think of the efforts many of us go through to convince ourselves that we, in spite of prior attitudes steadfastly held in our youth, haven't actually BECOME "The Man" ...as years went by.

And IMHO, it's also humorous to observe that, when confronted with the realization that even if we have inadvertently become "The Man", we reserve the right to do "non-conformist" or outright "rebellious" things to deny the possibility that we have 'totally' sold out to "The System". :stirthepo


This Sprint Mobile phone TV commercial from a few years ago really satirizes that scenario well: :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG-VB5xb6KM

GaryGB
 
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Just as well then that with simulators we can be anyone, or anything, we like........ not withstanding possible less-desired realities. :D
 
kevintampa5 said:
Gary, I want you on my National Security Advisory team when I am President of the USA in 2020. Seriously you have details on EVERYTHING!
You are the man.

How big is the Iranian 492 Tectonic plate platform and what is its range?

(Now watch the CIA bust in my door in the morning asking how I came to know of the Tectonic plate platform 492, who I'm working for and how much they paid me.)
Click to expand...

Hi Kevin:

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you on this issue of a purported "Iranian 492 Tectonic plate platform", but I was busy with some other "virtual mischief", and I only just now found this reference published in 2012: ;)

Excerpted from:

http://earthbyte.org/Resources/Pdf/Seton_etal_Global_Plate_Model_ESR2012.pdf


"The final closure of the Tethys Ocean started with the collision of Greater India to the southern Eurasian margin either around 55 Ma (Lee and Lawver, 1995) or 35Ma (Van der Voo et al., 1999b; Hafkenscheid et al., 2001; Aitchison et al., 2007) marked by the Indus-Tsangpo Suture zone and ended with the closure of the Tethyan seaway between Arabia and Iran forming the Zagros Mountains (Hessami et al., 2001). Several fragments of Tethyan ocean floor are postulated to underlay some of the basins in the eastern Mediterranean (see Müller et al., 2008a).

In the Mediterranean region, several Cenozoic back-arc basins formed due to the convergence between Eurasia and Africa (Rosenbaum et al., 2002). The Liguro–Provençal basin opened from around early Oligocene (~35 Ma) due to the eastward rollback of Apennines subduction (e.g. Carminati et al., 2004) and the rotation of Corscia and Sardinia (Speranza et al., 2002) and the accretion of the Kabylies blocks to the African mar-gin (e.g. Rosenbaum et al., 2002). Additional extensional basins such as the Pannonian basin were associated with Africa–Eurasia collision and associated with the Carpathian, Ionian and Hellenic subduction zones (Faccenna et al., 2001).

Our model for the evolution of the Tethys Ocean closely follows that of Heine et al. (2004), which is largely based on Stamp fli and Borel (2002) except in the Jurassic –Cretaceous. We agree with the separation of the Tethys into three oceanic domains, as first suggested by Metcalfe (1996) and adopted by Heine et al. (2004). We define the paleo-Tethys as the ocean basin that formed after the separation of the Hunic superterrane from the northern Gondwana margin, the meso-Tethys as the ocean basin that formed after the separation of the Cimmerian terrane from the northern Gondwana margin and the neo-Tethys as the ocean basin that formed when West Burma/Argoland separated from northwest Australia. Finite rotations de-scribing the opening of all three basins as well as associated sea floor spreading isochrons are mostly derived by following the model of Stamp fli and Borel (2002) and Heine et al. (2004).

We follow a Devonian opening model for the paleo-Tethys (Metcalfe, 1996 ) but do not discount that opening may have been diachronous and occurred as early as the Silurian (Stamp fli and Borel, 2002) in the west-ern Tethys. As the reconstructions presented in this paper do not extend beyond 200 Ma, we will not describe the accretionary history of the Hunic superterrane. We agree with Stamp fli and Borel (2002) that the cessation of spreading in the paleo-Tethys led to southern ridge jump, initiating opening of the meso-Tethys around 280 Ma, coincident with the collision of the Hunic terrane to the southern Laurasian margin and the initiation of rifting of the Cimmerian terrane from the northern Gondwana margin in the early–mid Permian (Metcalfe, 1996). We in-voke NE –SW directed spreading for the meso-Tethys consistent with Stamp fli and Borel (2002). The accretion of the Cimmerian terrane to the southern Laurasian margin also marks the closure of the paleo-Tethys ocean. We broadly follow the timing of accretion based on Golonkaetal.(2006) and Golonka(2007). The uncertainty in the south-ern extent of the Laurasian margin means that the timing of accretion may change significantly depending on the southern extent of the Laurasian continental margin. Following the closure of the paleo-Tethys, a margin-wide episode of back-arc opening occurred along the southern Eurasian margin— from China to western Europe. This back-arc system was responsible for the crust that now forms part of the Cretaceous aged ophiolite complexes through southern Europe, Cyprus (Troodos), Iran and Oman."

So I think it likely that Iran would be reticent to actually use such "Tectonic Tactics" on ex: 'Teutonics' because any induced reverberations might transfer via the Alps and the Mediterranean floor, and eventually into the Iranian Plate, thus the consequences would surely come home to them in a way that they'd feel in the 'depths' of their beings ! :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Feel_the_Earth_Move


PS: Oops... sorry for the "Evolving Thread" digression, Francois... I was over due for a bit of "Fractious" behavior to convince myself I'm not going to become ..."The Man" ! :duck:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fractious


GaryGB
 
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