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Hand-Crafted Ground Texture

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france
Hello dear developers :)

I wanted to ask you if ever experienced doing yourself the ground texture as done by Russ White:


here is a video showing the development and result I know that by this way, he is doing 2cm/pix (look at orbx: Stewart, Bella Coola, Damyn etc)

If you are familiar with this or already tryed it, I have some questions :)

1) Does it will need to be on a 3d model to be 2cm/pic on FSX? (if heard that photoreal can't be lower that 7cm)

2) can it be done With GIMP?

3) how does it work? wich tool to use? need to get some texture sample? (grass, asphalt, mud) or every texture are done manualli with simple colors?

4) does it cost FPS? (a friend told me that there are no FPS impact even with texture set max)

5) is it woth (trying) it, I mean that some areas in the world got poor imagery (ie. Wallis & Futuna) If I don this methode, it will only be airport area) not the whole scenery area)


Thanks in advance, and if you can tell me more, feel free :)

Greetings,
AScen
 
1) Does it will need to be on a 3d model to be 2cm/pic on FSX? (if heard that photoreal can't be lower that 7cm)

2) can it be done With GIMP?

3) how does it work? wich tool to use? need to get some texture sample? (grass, asphalt, mud) or every texture are done manualli with simple colors?

4) does it cost FPS? (a friend told me that there are no FPS impact even with texture set max)

5) is it woth (trying) it, I mean that some areas in the world got poor imagery (ie. Wallis & Futuna) If I don this methode, it will only be airport area) not the whole scenery area)


Thanks in advance, and if you can tell me more, feel free :)

Greetings,
AScen

I have done it as a matter of fact and I had some coaching from Russ White himself at the time while I was developing for Orbx.

1) Yes you will need to make a model, I used gmax, I started getting memory crashes when I reached about 70 textured tiles using my 1024px .psds in gmax so I had to make a set of tiny .psd "placeholders" specifically for use in the modeling program to avoid the crash. I had 30 cm imagery available and I had to resize that to 1462.857% to achieve 2 cm. It just took me 1 minute and 43 seconds to open the source file incidentally (1.4 Gb) and that's clocked at 4.4 Ghz and loading from an SSD. The source covers the ramp area only of a smallish GA airfield, it's 19,856 x 16,370px with a bazillion layers. You really need to grasp the sizes you'll need to be dealing with at 2cm before you start because once you get 1/4 of the way through synthesizing textures you've got so much into it a resolution change is not an option. I would recommend some test GPs at different resolutions, settle on the lowest one you think you can possibly live with, it'll look good when you get some buildings bedded in with some grass, etc.

2) I don't know, I'm sure it's possible, I had to limit mine to 1024 px textures to avoid the TML tweak which meant I had something like 140+ unique textures + seasonal variations and night. Photoshop has some batch processing functions that simplified things a lot, I don't know if Gimp can do macro type things but that's what you need. Also you can use a batch file to process .psds directly with Imagetool so for me PS was the way to go.

3) What you need in 2015 is an RC drone with a good camera. I did it with whatever I could find at cgtextures.com but it was difficult because all the ground level photos of grass were actually too high in resolution (or more correctly they simply didn't cover enough area). By the time you scaled them down to something that looked right at 2cm you had to tile it a million times to cover the area you needed to cover and then you'd end up with repetitive patterns throughout. You don't really need ground level photos taken by humans from 4 feet up, ideally you'd have dozens of photos from 50 feet up and covering 100 feet of ground that you could source all sorts of stuff from, a mud puddle, a patch of asphalt, tire tracks in dirt, etc. It wouldn't matter if the drone pics were from the actual airport so much, dirt, grass, and asphalt pics from a truck stop would suffice, mainly what you need is a lot of asphalt and grass variation from a multitude of photos at your disposal, otherwise it's very hard to eliminate repetition.

4) I haven't noticed an FPS impact but the textures do need a couple seconds to load, sometimes you see black tiles even on adjacent photoreal while the GP textures are filling in, the sim seems to prioritize and photoreal and LC ground textures are always the first compromise, once the GP textures are loaded though it doesn't seem to hurt performance much on my setup anyway.

Honestly I think 2cm is overkill, I did part of my GP at 4 cm and you have to be sitting right on the border where the high and low resolutions join to even see the difference. Here you can see it, look at the bottom edge of the image right in the middle and you can see the line running vertically, 2cm on the right, 4cm on the left. The seam continues across the entire GP as shown by the red line, you'll notice by the time you move your eye to the opposite end of the concrete you can't see the difference because at that distance you're looking at lesser resolution mip maps anyway. The 4cm texture on the left requires 1/4 the work, pixels, modeled planes, and of course the VAS requirement will be significantly reduced. Image is straight from the sim, cropped but not resized or sharpened.




5) Of course it's worth trying, make a plane in gmax that covers about 70 feet on the ground in both directions (that would be about 2cm using a 1024px texture) and make a texture for it. See how it works out for you in the image manipulation program because the modeling program is pretty much insignificant, you'll spend 10 minutes making a GP that uses one 1024px texture and putting it in the sim, then you'll spend 4 hours trying to make that small spot of ground look right on your texture. :)

Have fun, you will find it satisfying, not sure I can say profitable though as it's an insane amount of work.

Jim
 
Hi,
thanks a lot :D
Unfortunately, I don't have drone, even I get one, I don't live in the place I want to sceneryse, I think I'll need to do it manually :P

it looks to be a hard work though :|

I propose you to coach me (if possible)
If you, I'll give you my Skype in PM ;)

Greetings,
AScen
 
No I don't really want to coach anyone, I hate skype, and I can't really outline a specific process that you'll need to work through anyway. Just attempt something, and when you have questions ask them here in this thread or start another one and I'll do what I can to help.

You should know that it took me most of a summer working 12-16 hrs a day to do the GP on this one airport BTW, there's no way I'd ever do it again, every minute was spent stressing out over something like the gmax out-of-memory crash and wondering what unexpected thing would happen next to stop you in your tracks with 1000 hrs of work at stake. I got down to adding the last 10 winter textures or so and the MCX GP wizard apparently decided that was 10 too many, the entire GP went bonkers with textures out of place, transparent green things extending thousands of feet in the air, and autogen suppression for 10 nm in every direction. (Use square textures only I'm told) I managed to work around it by splitting the GP into two parts at the last minute but you can imagine what seeing all that work, that close to the end, going absolutely crazy in the sim was like. I seriously contemplated suicide, and then 30 min after the airport released the captains were grumbling because I'd forgotten to add the AWOS frequency, lol! That's what it will be like all the way through, you've been warned! :)

Yeah the drone is out of reach for me too but given their recent popularity maybe it's possible to find some ground photos on the net somewhere taken by drones specifically for CG artists to use? I can't seem to find any at cgtextures but this might be a good place to start anyway:

http://www.cgtextures.com/textures.php?t=browse&q=1939


Many of the textures available have already been synthesized into scenes semi-ready for use, look at these for example, but also look at the repetitive patterns in the grass, that's what you need to avoid:

http://www.cgtextures.com/texview.php?id=44129

Jim
 
Thanks for reply,
I think it will be a real nightmare xD, anyway, as you said, its worth it to try.

If I do in 1 image the whole area, and then, slicing it in different images (squarre) will it work? (but this way, I will avoid differnce on alignment on 2images what applying to the model (tell me if you don't understand the question)

Thank you for helping me in the new technologie, you are amesome :)

grtz
AScen
 
If I do in 1 image the whole area, and then, slicing it in different images (squarre) will it work? (but this way, I will avoid differnce on alignment on 2images what applying to the model (tell me if you don't understand the question)

I don't know if I do understand the question but yes that's basically what you'll have to do. You need to upsample that image a huge amount to achieve 2cm or 4cm whichever you choose, like I said I had to go 1462.857% to turn 30cm into 2cm. Depending on the size of the area, your source may be so huge after upsampling that you can't handle it in one file alone, then you'll need to split it into smaller parts and the next problem you face is making the two join seamlessly when you start exporting slices for textures. I found I needed to leave a little overlap and then I could import a section of the adjoining source along the edges and just sort of continue it from there.

And then yes, slice it up into square textures and apply each one to a square plane in the modeling program.

You'll start with something blurry and oversized like this (click full sized):

gp_tiles02.jpg



Cover it up with high-res stuff so it looks like this:

gp_tiles03.jpg


Don't paint taxiway lines on your textures BTW they'll look awful when the lower resolution mip maps start doing their thing, instead plan to loft them in the modeling program and apply a repeating texture to the loft, the edges will stay sharper that way as you taxi across the airport.

That's about all there is to it, lol.
Jim
 
I meant, the whole airport area in 1 GIMP file, to be sure texture will be seamless (and then slicing the image and reassemble is the software)

For markings (taxi, runway...) you mean I do it as another layer (model) as a groundpoly?
The first image you show, this is as reference?
the second is with all textures layers on?
BTW the second was taken in FSX or it is one of the texture file?

Thanks a lot :)

GRTZ,
AScen

PS: Sorry for bad english, I'm french :)
 
What I'm trying to say is suppose your real world airport ramp area that you have imagery for is 7000 feet wide and 7000 feet deep and you want to cover that at 2cm, your source file before you slice it up will need to be 102,400x102,400px and there's no way any photo manipulation software can handle something of that size so you'll need to break it up into sizes that you can manage which ideally isn't much over 15,000x15,000px or so. That's an extreme example of a large airport but that would mean something like 49 individual 15,000x15,000px sources - that's kinda what I meant when I said "You really need to grasp the sizes you'll need to be dealing with at 2cm before you start..." in the first post.

You can't use your imagery in the state it's in, if you're going to do that just turn it into photoreal with resample.exe and be done with it. You're going to have to enlarge that intensely to achieve 2cm or even 4cm, that's what I was trying to show you with the two images above. Of course enlarging it intensely will make it very blurry, you have to eliminate that blurriness by pasting parts of photos over it or whatever you can figure out to do with it.

This is what that area looks like in the 30cm imagery I downloaded:

gp_tiles04.jpg



Resized 1462.857% to achieve 2cm:

gp_tiles02.jpg



...and with new texture synthesized overtop:

gp_tiles03.jpg


At this point you're gonna have to show me that you've at least made an attempt before I help anymore, I can't explain every tiny detail in depth before you even start, I don't even know how to do it myself, I never did and I still don't, I figured it out as I went and if I had to do it again I'd have to figure it out all over again. You're going to have to figure it out for yourself too or you simply can't do this, when you try for yourself you'll see what I'm talking about and then you'll have questions, I'll answer them if I can.

Jim
 
okay, tell me if im doing good/
I downloaded 1foot (30cm) imagery on USGS TNM, are these images 102 400x102 400px (as you said)
then, can you re explain me how to slice them? (in 15x15pix or 15 000x15 000?)
and if I'm correct, once sliced, I need to resize it 1462.857%?

Greetings, AScen
 
Hi Marc,

Completely off topic, is that Dauphin Island Airport?

Besides that, good luck and I will be checking this thread regularly to pick up on the technique you use as I have wanted to do this myself for a long time as well.

Brian
 
Hi Brian,
are you medium? :O you are scaring me :|

yes, its Dauphin, how did you guessed it? wich detail?

Grtz,
AScen

PS: what do you think about the new logo :) it a friend who did it on photoshop, using a draw I've made)
 
I am not sure about what am I doing, but eh, I here to learn, right? :)

For sure, it will not be 2cm for this one ;)

upload_2015-9-27_19-27-2.png


upload_2015-9-27_19-27-39.png


upload_2015-9-27_19-29-58.png
 
Don't be scared :p I found this airfield when I was looking for a small airfield I could practice this technique on myself. Just when I looked at your post I was looking at this airfield and recognised it. You beat me to it ;)

For the runway I advice to get rid of some of the damage as it looks repetitive right now. Other than that it looks good.

Your logo is also really cool, I like the design.

Brian
 
So, you wanted to do Dauphin to practice Hand-crafted Texture? what a coincidence :P
thx for advice, but I'm still learning this concept, maybe I'll restart it :P
Thank you for support :)
 
I really don't get why you're blowing a 15cm source up so much. Why not use is as a noise layer over a 2cm tile at a lower level? Surely you'll have 2000 drawcalls this way?
 
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