Having trouble creating SHP file

[jgarnold]

I have a project which I created and built successfully about a year ago which contains a scenery object and an (exclude all buildings)n polygon.

I have modified the building and so want to recreate the 'package'.

I place my object (slightly different place to original but that is immaterial) then create my polygon and set properties to exclude all buildings. It displays in magenta.
This is where I am having trouble.
Firstly in the scenery editor I cannot expand the 'polygon' listed there (there is no 'upside down facing' triangle
Secondly
I select select SAVE SCENERY (in the scenery editor) and a window opens for saving the (type) shape file ie .shp and I navigate to the scene folder inside the packagesources folder then enter my filename and click on SAVE
What used to happen next was that a new window would appear to enable the saving of the (type) scenery file eg .scn but it doesn't so I can't save the polygon.
Maybe SDK updates since I originally did this changes the work flow which I am unaware of.

[added later] or does SDK only 'write' one xml file containing both the placement of the object AND the polygon?
I 'opened' the xml which was written and it seems to contain data for both - ie it contains a
<SceneryObject ....>....</SceneryObject> and
<Polygon.......>......</polygon>

Any assistance would be appreciated.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi John:


IIUC, you are in part, referring to issues previously discussed here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/no-scn-files-saved.450762/

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/save-scenery-doesnt-prompt-me-to-save-a-shape-file.453259/

Keep in mind again, to avoid misunderstanding, THERE ARE NO .SCN files!, never!

Reportedly, since SU9 the default behavior of MSFS SDK DevMode GUI is to write Polygon data into the Project (airport) XML.

I predict this will lead to impaired MSFS performance in areas that have multiple airports with larger (50 Km+) ARP test Radii.


However, we still have the option to save Polygon data to a *.SHP (ESRI Shape) file:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/project-saving.454364/post-903037


IIRC, if we 'check the box' to use *.SHP files, then certain Polygon data is stored in *.SHP ...rather than *.XML format.

I prefer *.SHP as I can work with data in various GIS applications to edit existing objects, and utilize open source GIS data sets.


Another use for *.SHP files is recovery of data, and for data derived from existing BGL files used as a "vector primitive" to be edited:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ing-need-help-on-exclusion.452347/post-881241

GaryGB

 

[jgarnold]

Thanks Gary

I suspected that (since SU9 the default behavior of MSFS SDK DevMode GUI is to write Polygon data into the Project (airport) XML.)

I did download the documentation for SU9 at the time of the update but must admit I didn't look it or maybe a 'cursory glance' at it. It is a 'formidable' document to 'wade' through. It would be good if there was a small document which contained a list of major changes with perhaps references to the main document.

I note that SU9 was released 2022-04-26 which is well after the last time I used SDK to build a package.

The second link you mentioned (save scenery doesn't prompt for a shape file which was created my 'moi') mentions (by mamu) about scn and shp files (dated Aug 2021) well before SU9.
I always update my tips and suggestions file (word document) and it contains all that 'stuff' but nothing about what you have pointed out and as such the last time I used SDK to build object placements exclusion polygons was after that. I will now modify it.

Anyway I now realise that didn't have a problem and just needed to be up to date with changes to SDK. Thanks again.

 

[GaryGB]

So, now things will be in top-top "SHP" ?

Or maybe that was ...ship "SHP"

GaryGB

 

[jgarnold]

Not quite ship .shp yet
I only get an xml file created when I SAVE SCENERY as I didn't 'check the box' to use *.SHP files.
The xml file is written to the SCENE folder which IIRC used to be to contain the .SCN and .SHP files.
I haven't as yet progressed to actually building the package (I wonder if the steps to do that have changed with SU9?) and so do not know if there is a different procedure when using the xml file and when using the shp file. Maybe the doc will reveal that but which area of the docs I wonder.

 

[GaryGB]

This is what the online MSFS SDK docs say regarding SHP files:

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/html/Introduction/Using_The_SDK.htm?rhhlterm=SHP&rhsearch=SHP

Note that one may click the 'Search' magnifying glass icon to bring up a query entry field; less words (or a single word) works best.

GaryGB

 

[jgarnold]

Thanks Gary. Yes I know about the search but often can't think of a 'correct' term to search for and sometimes end up with a lot more 'hits' to have to wade through than is needed.

Under what circumstances would a developer want to write polygon data to a .shp file (vector data) instead of writing it to the Project (airport) XML?
IE what is vector data required for and is it necessary (for a package which only contains a model with placement and a polygon)?

BTW what is/was your occupation?

 

[GaryGB]

Hi John:

If all you have is a single Polygon with an Exclude Buildings attribute, it is just as practical to save that vector data into the airport XML to be compiled into a BGL, as it is to use a ☆.SHP file.

SHP is best to use if working with large data sets, and/or data sets which require vertex geometry vetting, smoothing, or point density reduction in a GIS-enabled FS utility or specialized GIS application.

Sorry, I prefer not to disclose my profession; but let's just say I have spent way too many years in multiple undergraduate, graduate, and post-graduate curriculae.

GaryGB

 

[jgarnold]

Thanks. That is ok. You are a lot more learned and educated that me (ex IT business analyst, programmer) with no university education.

 

[GaryGB]

I think a graduate of the "School of Hard Knocks" is worthy of an Emeritus distinction just as well as having papers from a school of letters.

GaryGB

 

[jgarnold]

Definitely. I had forgotten about such school courses and maybe I too could have added that to my 'list'. I also have OG tacked onto my name (old geezer).

 

[scruffyduck]

Shp file based scenery polygons are depreciated. I believe they can still be compiled but not sure. Certainly, the preferred method is now to use the XML based scenery polygons

 

[jgarnold]

Thanks Jon. GaryGB advises that unless you particularly require/want a .shp file ('check the box' to use *.SHP files) everything gets written to the 'airport' sml file. And the SDK documentation also states that.

 

[GaryGB]

Shp file based scenery polygons are depreciated. I believe they can still be compiled but not sure. Certainly, the preferred method is now to use the XML based scenery polygons

Thanks Jon. GaryGB advises that unless you particularly require/want a .shp file ('check the box' to use *.SHP files) everything gets written to the 'airport' sml file. And the SDK documentation also states that.

Hi Jon:

Please note that since SU9, MSFS SDK 0_18_0_0 DevMode GUI shows an option for use of ESRI SHP files:

DevMode GUI > Scenery Editor Menu > Edit > Save Polygons In Shapefiles


It would be helpful to those FS Developers who use external GIS utilities and 3D modeling applications with GIS features, to be able to utilize ADE for scenery creation via both XML and ESRI SHP file source code methods.

Please retain the existing functionality for utilization of ESRI SHP files in ADE.

If possible, it would be helpful to have this option as well as the (new) XML-based methods to be available in ADE.

Perhaps there may be a way to import data into ADE via (properly configured) ESRI SHP files and/or by "Import XML" ?

Thanks in advance for considering those using both ADE and other specialized software ...for airport / scenery development.

GaryGB

I think it is too late Gary. I have already retired (and removed) the code for SHP and replaced it with support for the XML versions. Asobo are changing things faster than I can keep up

As some of you may have noticed, development on ADE MSFS halted a few months back due to personal matters, However I am looking at implementing the XML based version of Scenery Polygons and removing support for the SHP file versions. I have not scoped out the amount of work but there is more than a bit. I will update on progress when there is some

Indeed, use of ESRI Shape (*.SHP) files by MSFS SDK is still 'alive and well' via the dialog box described above in my quote.

If MSFS seeks to eliminate use of ESRI Shape (*.SHP) files by MSFS SDK, it would inappropriately limit the ability by 3rd party FS developers to implement corrections and customization to MSFS scenery, and by keeping scenery development dependent on MSFS' proprietary XML schema(s), such an agenda may be seen as anti-competitive behavior when it (purposely ?) does not facilitate use of industry standard data formats and tools that are readily available for working with open source data.

The solution to making MSFS scenery "As Real As It Gets" should not, IMHO, be solely reliant on use of content generation via MSFS' proprietary XML and BlackShark's proprietary technology for implementation of Open Source data sets (that all too often look ridiculous at run time rendered as vertically extruded footprints for buildings placed along Green roads, that are themselves improperly shaped and positioned among an overkill of excessively dense trees, that can only be fixed by creating custom local Biomes and/or countless polygons).

Regarding custom Biomes, the MSFS SDK makes it clear these are to be created using ESRI Shape (*.SHP) files:

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/html/Samples_And_Tutorials/Samples/SimpleBiomes.htm


Did I forget to mention 'floating orb' streetlights along default roads that make it more practical to exclude / replace entire roads rather than just lights ?

So, again, I ask: where is the 'hidden MSFS Terrain.Cfg' that defines this type of IIUC, "vector autogen" object ?


A related concern, IMHO, involves ASOBO's attempts to substitute a type of individual- rather than global- scenery package Terrain.Cfg in "airport" XML code, while also attempting control of Terrain scenery content rendering with ARP test radii that, instead of being set at 5,000 Meters, is now recommended to be set for 10 times that at 50 Kilometers, in order to enable peripheral non-airport scenery to even be rendered at the greater distances that Terrain rendering inherently requires through a Quad Grid-based rendering sub-system that should be "separate- but equal" ...to that controlled by airport XML coding.

IMHO, attempting to code / render that type of scenery complexity via FS "airport" XML sub-system is unlikely to yield good run time performance.

I would actively oppose "deprecation" of FS scenery development via ESRI Shape (*.SHP) files by MSFS SDK in favor of moving Terrain development into the 'airport' XML coding and rendering sub-system.

Anyone with a vested interest in their own agendas may choose what they support in their software; but If ASOBO were to take the action of entirely eradicating an option to utilize ESRI Shape (*.SHP) files via the MSFS SDK, I may entirely "deprecate" MSFS on my computer.

Deprecate vs. depreciate

To depreciate is (1) to lessen in value, or (2) to lower the value of something, especially by falsely undervaluing, disparaging, or belittling it. To deprecate something is to express disapproval of it or to disparage or belittle it. So the two words are synonymous in some uses.

grammarist.com

GaryGB