Max Defiant Project

[Paul Domingue]

Thanks for the complements all. Brandon, nice hearing from you.

I thought I would continue with how I model for two reasons, incase someone new is interested in my methods and also I invite the masters to point out any way I can improve my development skills.

Before I start refining the structure I like to begin some rudimentary animations. Since the line drawings available on the internet are notoriously inaccurate it's a good time to see how it's all going to fit. On this model I don't want to start cutting gear wells and hatches until I am comfortable with how the gear is going to fit and I have the shape of the wing as accurate as possible. On these early aircraft without the blueprints you don't have any measurements for retraction arms and pivot locations so it is a bit trial and error.

[URL='http://postimg.org/image/k4hm01oxp/'][URL='http://postimg.org/image/kep4je3jx/'][/URL][/URL]
[URL='http://[url=http://postimg.org/image/kep4je3jx/][img]http://s6.postimg.org/kep4je3jx/anim_03.jpg[/img][/url]']As you can see I need to do a lot more reshaping of the bottom of the wing where it meets the fuselage. According to the front view line drawing the wing is in its proper place but the side view shows it to be a bit high. Obviously the side view is more correct. That's what I mean about the line drawings.

Next, prop blades used to mystify me but not anymore. I have made Hamilton Standards but never a de Havilland prop. This is the quick and easy way to make a nice looking prop blade in Max.
If you can get a cross section of the blade it will help but a few good photos will work just as well.

Begin with a spline. Here I used four splines, the almost circular base, airfoil midsection, another airfoil near the tip and an arc to complete the tip. Connect each section and adjust the curves as needed.
[URL='http://[url=http://postimg.org/image/m3y7rgj99/][img]http://s6.postimg.org/m3y7rgj99/blade_01.jpg[/img][/url]'][URL='http://postimg.org/image/m3y7rgj99/'][/URL]

Next apply a surface modifier, simple enough.
[URL='http://[url=http://postimg.org/image/fc7solu9p/][img]http://s6.postimg.org/fc7solu9p/blade_02.jpg[/img][/url]'][URL='http://postimg.org/image/fc7solu9p/'][/URL]

Next apply an edit poly modifier to the stack then adjust your smoothing groups to give a nice sharp edge on the trailing edge and rounded on the leading edge, as you would a wing surface.
[URL='http://[url=http://postimg.org/image/ef1dfqirh/][img]http://s6.postimg.org/ef1dfqirh/blade_03.jpg[/img][/url]'][URL='http://postimg.org/image/ef1dfqirh/'][/URL]

Next add a twist modifier to the stack and twist it using the limiter for the base and the tip, we really don't want the tip twisting much.
[URL='http://[url=http://postimg.org/image/i8utow03h/][img]http://s6.postimg.org/i8utow03h/blade_04.jpg[/img][/url]'][URL='http://postimg.org/image/i8utow03h/'][/URL]

Well that's it and you have a nice prop blade quickly made that you can use on many models.
[URL='http://[url=http://postimg.org/image/mzup6wsxp/][img]http://s6.postimg.org/mzup6wsxp/blade_05.jpg[/img][/url]'][URL='http://postimg.org/image/mzup6wsxp/'][/URL]

Hope you enjoyed my mini tut.

Paul[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]

 

[hairyspin]

I've got a few photos of the RAF Museum Hendon Defiant's undercarriage I'll post when I get back at the weekend.

 

[Dutcheeseblend]

Thanks for the prop creation explanation Paul! Thumbs up for this project

 

[Paul Domingue]

I've got a few photos of the RAF Museum Hendon Defiant's undercarriage I'll post when I get back at the weekend.

Any and all reference would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the offer.

Just got the Pilot's Notes and Service Manual, now I need to print it and spend some time reading.
If anybody is in need of some manuals for vintage war birds I highly recommend http://www.flight-manuals-on-cd.com/

Thanks for the prop creation explanation Paul! Thumbs up for this project

I imagine you have similar tools in Blender. It would be nice to see how it is done. Maybe you could post a quickie Blender method of prop blade creation here for new modelers?

 

[Dutcheeseblend]

I imagine you have similar tools in Blender. It would be nice to see how it is done. Maybe you could post a quickie Blender method of prop blade creation here for new modelers?

Not exactly the same tools, but roughly similar. F747fly got me on the right track and currently I'm thinking/working on methods to implement this in my own development projects.

Regarding prop modelling itself: difficult. Depends on how detailed one wants to go. Exact shape of the prop or approximation? Personally, I think, an approximation of the prop shape is enough.

 

[F747fly]

Not exactly the same tools, but roughly similar. F747fly got me on the right track and currently I'm thinking/working on methods to implement this in my own development projects.

Regarding prop modelling itself: difficult. Depends on how detailed one wants to go. Exact shape of the prop or approximation? Personally, I think, an approximation of the prop shape is enough.

I can remember doing a short one on fanblade modelling... Though it wasn't a very accurate one Glad it helped though

 

[hairyspin]

Here we go, it's all I've got. Paul, I'm sending you a PM with link to full-size versions (much larger).

The brakes are in the wheel hub, but note the brush-like fitting for keeping the tyres spick & span: All that mud! You're not in the Navy now my lad, get them wheels scrubbed!!

 

[Dutcheeseblend]

Interesting photographs Tom! Nice mechanism and funny brushes

 

[Paul Domingue]

Thanks Tom. Best detail pics I've seen so far. Note the red covers on the polished section of the oleo sliders. They were added by the museum. The antenna mast is extended, normally retracted for takeoff and landing.
I'm going to have fun with the gear because it has to rotate on two different pivots at the same time, looks like the retraction system is going to be complicated geometry but I like that kind of stuff.

 

[hairyspin]

Yep, the red covers are museum standard issue to prevent oleo sag and lots of the exhibits have them. I thought you'd find the gear geometry a challenge!

 

[Paul Domingue]

She's slowly coming together. Tom, those pics were a great help with the main gear. I got the gear animated but it was hard without a single measurement to go by. A lot of trial and error with pivot points. So some pics.

[URL='http://postimg.org/image/ocdd5mse5/'] [URL='http://postimg.org/image/x3kdzwbp9/'] [URL='http://postimg.org/image/4ghdq3bct/'] [URL='http://postimg.org/image/z9eouef5p/'][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]

 

[Dutcheeseblend]

Very nice! Are you planning to keep this mesh detail on the gear or simplify it? Looks very good!

 

[Paul Domingue]

Very nice! Are you planning to keep this mesh detail on the gear or simplify it? Looks very good!

Just the opposite, I plan to add more detail.

 

[hairyspin]

Quick work, Paul, and very nice indeed!

 

[bob5568]

Paul, I'm enjoying this thread. I think the images will be more helpful for newbies if you show your modifier stack. Just a thought.

Bob

 

[Paul Domingue]

Paul, I'm enjoying this thread. I think the images will be more helpful for newbies if you show your modifier stack. Just a thought.

Bob

Thanks for giving me a dope slap, that was part of the reason I posted this thread.
I'll make some more pics.

 

[Paul Domingue]

Everybody has there own way of modeling in gMax or Max, this is how I do it. I try not to stay in a rut and like to experiment with new methods and techniques so don't be afraid to try something new. There is always a better way.

My model with it's planetary system of projection planes for the reference maps. This is very basic stuff but to do it properly takes quite a bit of time and effort. I may take as much as a couple of days just setting up the backdrops, scaling all the images and aligning them. Usually once I start the model I have to fine tune the projection planes both in scale and orientation.
I use layered PSD files that have various sections cut into layers and model variations stacked in the layers. This allows me to turn on or off a particular layer as needed for my current state of modeling without having to add a new projection plane.
Note the small planes, these have diagrams of components for the undercarriage and are not aligned with the model. I'll build the part offset then move it into the main model. There is less confusion that way.

[url=http://postimg.org/image/ysyj52xq5/][/URL]

For me the wing is the base of this model. How the wing meets the fuselage and where the gear folds in are central to the development of the rest of the model. With that a few images of the progression of the wing/plane development.

The spline cage. This is the best method I have found for creating a nice wing structure. I used to agonize over wing tips until I started working with splines now even a caveman can do it. The Surface modifier and the Edit Poly allow me to see what my end results will be. I can adjust the iterations as needed to get a happy medium between poly count and smooth curves.

[url=http://postimg.org/image/6z84nw3el/][/URL]

In this image I have removed the aileron as a separate spline cage. I need a slightly higher iteration on these ailerons for proper looking curves.

[url=http://postimg.org/image/icunz3dx9/][/URL]

I have now made a cut with the ProBoolean tool. Once you do this ProBoolean collapses the stack but you can back out if you wish. I love this tool and use it extensively. It does require some cleanup afterwards but well worth the little extra effort.

[url=http://postimg.org/image/pc8pygdvh/][/URL]

These images show the wing with some poly cleanup and the beginning of the flap development. Symmetry is turned on in the first image. The inboard flap is completed now to do the same for the outboard.

[url=http://postimg.org/image/4csm6yc71/][/URL] [url=http://postimg.org/image/arrn3miwt/][/URL]

In this image the fuselage is selected. I have already cut the nose off and converted it to an Edit Poly. The nose is a set of panels in reality and I was happy with the shape. It is now in a layer where I will build the finalized fuselage. Notice that I use layers in Max. I have never cared for the Named Selections system and since I use Photoshop with extensive layering it is comfortable for me to do the same in Max. Also note in the right hand corner of the viewport is the Milviz Mirror Tool, if you don't have it get it. It's one of the best little Max scripts around. Thank you Colin.

[url=http://postimg.org/image/h80ltprgd/][/URL]

If you have any questions or would like a little more in depth information on something please ask and I'll try to answer. This way I'll know what people are interested in. My next post will be on the gear animation.


Paul

 

[bob5568]

Paul, I really enjoyed these images. I like your modelling technique! It looks like the flaps have significant polys due to the ribs being modeled in 3d. I've never modeled an aircraft so I don't have a feel for poly budgets. I have been focused on autos lately.

Recently, I started to model with the images for front and back bisecting the vehicle so I not only can model against an opaque and self illuminated graphic, but the structure behind the image plane is not visible. This used to drive me a bit batty, and I found myself hiding polys all the time to make sure when I was working on the front, I wasn't distorting the back unintentionally. Also, now the image for the front is at the front, I used to have to have it at the rear, so I could see it in the front view (and vice versa for the rear image).

I spent a moment looking at your boolean, debating in my mind whether it was worth it, or would it be better to just cut in the edges and extrude. Have you tried it that way?
Bob

 

[Paul Domingue]

Paul, I really enjoyed these images. I like your modelling technique!

Thank you very much, my ego has been boosted.

It looks like the flaps have significant polys due to the ribs being modeled in 3d. I've never modeled an aircraft so I don't have a feel for poly budgets. I have been focused on autos lately.

With my abandonment of FS9 my poly count is no longer a concern. I do watch the vertex draw calls for FSX but that is not a concern for P3D. Currently the model is at 30k and as long as I stay under 300k for both external and interior models combined I'll be ok. I might mention that I have a low end computer and if it works for me then it should work fine for others. To be honest with you I model for myself and since I am a freeware developer I don't have to worry about the end user.

Also, now the image for the front is at the front, I used to have to have it at the rear, so I could see it in the front view (and vice versa for the rear image).

That's the oddity about Max's view nomenclature. Right, left, top and bottom views indicate the side of the object being viewed but front and back indicate the direction of view. Why they did this I don't know but it is to late to change since everybody has become used to it.

I spent a moment looking at your boolean, debating in my mind whether it was worth it, or would it be better to just cut in the edges and extrude. Have you tried it that way?
Bob

I use cutting and extruding quite a bit on objects but in this case I felt it would be much easier to use a Boolean cut. I created the pattern with splines so I could get the smooth curves I wanted where hand cutting would not have been so nice without a lot of work. I am not afraid of using a Boolean and find it to be an excellent tool in the right hands. You know it's not the Boolean that kills the model it's the people who use the Boolean. That brings to mind the tool bar mirror tool. I use it extensively without problem but I know what its capabilities are and its downfalls. Knowledge is power.

I render with AO to look for anomalies after a Boolean cut and editing as seen here. You will notice the smooth surface surrounding the gear well. Also there is a second cut inside the well which is only temporary but it does show the type of anomalies I am looking for after a cut. If it looks good with AO then it will be fine in the sim.

Thanks for you interest

Paul

 

[hairyspin]

The view oddity is because Max uses one coordinate system and DirectX the other: in one if X is right and Y upwards on the screen, then Z is straight towards you; in the other Z is straight away from you. Blame who you will, I only ask who insisted .dds textures are vertically flipped before saving?