Negativity...

[lionheart]

Hey guys,

I am starting to see a trend of people starting to post on posts that want to do nothing but shoot people down. Why? Why is it so important to almost hurt peoples feelings over a simple post? If you dont have anything nice to say, why pick on them?

I say, be nice... Be a man, not a playground bully. Think before you write. You might be writing something that will hurt some guys feelings all because you think you know everything and you demand people think what you think.

This is a forum of some very intelligent people, intellectuals. We are lucky and blessed to have this 'university' of aircraft and scenery design. Dont turn it into a playground of bullies and angry comments.

Lets build people up, help people, work with people, not shoot them down, make them look bad, answer them with negative, hurting words. That 'will' make you look bad as time goes on. You who bully people might have a moment of glory in a temporary victory, but later down the road, you will be known for your views and comments and find you have fewer friends then if you had said some nicer things.


If you cant think of anything nice to say... Maybe dont say anything and wait for another post to come along where your input might be better placed and taken as words of wisdom instead of pure negativity.


My humble thoughts. I am directing this at no particular people, just saying, it seems to be a trend with negativity.... I would hate to see some of us leave because of being bullied around.



Bill

 

[hairyspin]

Agreed. This has been a generally friendly, helpful place to come and learn the FS trade and I'd really like it to stay that way.

 

[GoranM]

Should try developing for X Plane.
Almost all the FSX guys bully the X Plane developers.
Either that or they say nothing at all.
But VERY rarely will they throw out a compliment.

 

[Gman]

Hey guys,

I am starting to see a trend of people starting to post on posts that want to do nothing but shoot people down. Why? Why is it so important to almost hurt peoples feelings over a simple post? If you dont have anything nice to say, why pick on them?

I say, be nice... Be a man, not a playground bully. Think before you write. You might be writing something that will hurt some guys feelings all because you think you know everything and you demand people think what you think.

This is a forum of some very intelligent people, intellectuals. We are lucky and blessed to have this 'university' of aircraft and scenery design. Dont turn it into a playground of bullies and angry comments.

Lets build people up, help people, work with people, not shoot them down, make them look bad, answer them with negative, hurting words. That 'will' make you look bad as time goes on. You who bully people might have a moment of glory in a temporary victory, but later down the road, you will be known for your views and comments and find you have fewer friends then if you had said some nicer things.


If you cant think of anything nice to say... Maybe dont say anything and wait for another post to come along where your input might be better placed and taken as words of wisdom instead of pure negativity.


My humble thoughts. I am directing this at no particular people, just saying, it seems to be a trend with negativity.... I would hate to see some of us leave because of being bullied around.



Bill

You're right, people need to get along, however sometimes people say things which need to be addressed....

When I first saw this thread I thought you were talking about the recent senseless uber-negative spam campaign against Microsoft for not making Flight! another cash cow for payware developers, but alas, you apparently didn't extend your sentiments of fairness to the creators of the very Flight Simulation world which has brought us all together.

Haven't you yourself been taking part in the intelligently savage intellectual berating of Microsoft for having the audacity to develop and market their products as they see fit?

Were you not hurting people's feelings with your comments?

Hopefully you will apply everything you wrote above to your own comments regarding Microsoft, and begin to practice what you have preached.

In my humble opinion, we are lucky and blessed to have Flight Simulator XX, and this esteemed forum would simply not exist were it not for Microsoft producing the Flight Simulator XX platforms and providing the SDKs to both freeware and payware developers. Fortunately, thanks to the R&D fortunes which were invested by Microsoft, and the creativity of their developers, there's plenty of meat left on them Flight Simulator XX bones for years to come.

By the way, I apologize if I hurt your feelings.
To the friends I may have just lost, don't let the door hit you, where the Good Lord split you on your way out.

Best Regards
Gman

 

[hcornea]

Bill,

I think the spirit of your original post is quite on the money. Threads seem to have a habit of drifting off course of late, into one agenda or another.

 

[scruffyduck]

Bill,

I think the spirit of your original post is quite on the money. Threads seem to have a habit of drifting off course of late, into one agenda or another.

I can vouch for that We mods seem to have to spend more time recently in refereeing.
There is a pattern though - the main topics that lead to drift and disagreement seem to be on matters legal or matters related to some new Sim/Game that was recently released by a little known outfit in Seattle

Threads related to design and development can drift off course but usually in a friendly sort of way.

Never the less I would say that this forum is still very friendly compared to some others I could mention. I am aware that sometimes we may seem a bit harsh in closing threads etc. Sometimes it is a difficult balance to make. We do discuss it before a decision to close or censure is taken. We are also proud of our reputation as a friendly place and want to keep it that way

 

[rhumbaflappy]

The forum has some tools. Among them, you can select the option to ignore the posts of specific members. You won't even see the posts with that solution. Sometimes this is the simplest and most effective method if someone's posts irritate or insult you.

Most problems arise with topics that are not specifically related to techniques. Design concepts either work or they do not. It gets messy when we enter topics that are conducive to judgements. Avoiding comment, or not even reading those topics, would reduce the possibility of confrontation.

If any of our members feel bullied or intimidated, I encourage them to to contact myself ( rhumbaflappy ), Jon ( scruffyduck ) or Arno. Explain the problem that involved you, point us to the threads, and we'll see if we can resolve the issue peacefully with private correspondence.

We've done this in the past with success. We are discrete with confidences. Our goal is to make this a comfortable place to exchange ideas and techniques concerning flight simulator development.

We do try to be firm regarding personal attacks on other members.

You would also be surprised how sometimes a member will not even realize they have been misbehaving. What seemed a responsible conversation, or innocent remark, can be regarded by others as aggressive or antisocial behavior... this is an odd side-effect of internet correspondence. We can be easily mistaken in our intentions. This can also be complicated by our international membership.

To sum this up... Avoid topics "judgmental" topics. Avoid other members that you feel may intimidate you with personal remarks by using the forum ignore option. Use the personal messaging to contact the admins or mods to express your concerns (there is also a report post button on each post within a thread). For those of us that may need some counseling regarding our forum behavior, please accept the direction of the admins or mods that may contact you. We don't want anyone banned. We want everyone welcomed and accepted. The best attitude here is one of tolerance.

Dick

 

[lionheart]

The forum has some tools. Among them, you can select the option to ignore the posts of specific members. You won't even see the posts with that solution. Sometimes this is the simplest and most effective method if someone's posts irritate or insult you.

Most problems arise with topics that are not specifically related to techniques. Design concepts either work or they do not. It gets messy when we enter topics that are conducive to judgements. Avoiding comment, or not even reading those topics, would reduce the possibility of confrontation.

If any of our members feel bullied or intimidated, I encourage them to to contact myself ( rhumbaflappy ), Jon ( scruffyduck ) or Arno. Explain the problem that involved you, point us to the threads, and we'll see if we can resolve the issue peacefully with private correspondence.

We've done this in the past with success. We are discrete with confidences. Our goal is to make this a comfortable place to exchange ideas and techniques concerning flight simulator development.

We do try to be firm regarding personal attacks on other members.

You would also be surprised how sometimes a member will not even realize they have been misbehaving. What seemed a responsible conversation, or innocent remark, can be regarded by others as aggressive or antisocial behavior... this is an odd side-effect of internet correspondence. We can be easily mistaken in our intentions. This can also be complicated by our international membership.

To sum this up... Avoid topics "judgmental" topics. Avoid other members that you feel may intimidate you with personal remarks by using the forum ignore option. Use the personal messaging to contact the admins or mods to express your concerns (there is also a report post button on each post within a thread). For those of us that may need some counseling regarding our forum behavior, please accept the direction of the admins or mods that may contact you. We don't want anyone banned. We want everyone welcomed and accepted. The best attitude here is one of tolerance.

Dick

Many thanks Dick.

It is true that sometimes we say things that are harsh and we dont realise it. I can usually handle it when I am treated rough, but man, I hate to see others take the abuse. Then is when it ruffles my feathers. Some one posts something innocent enough and several jump on him.

Yep, I did say some partially negative things on Flight, and since then, I have also posted my blessings on the franchise. I have stated 'I hope Flight does very well and I hope people that fly in it enjoy it immensely'. I have said this a couple of times now, not including this time.

I hope everyone has a great day and that we continue to grow in our knowledges of FS development and having fun and learning.


Bill

 

[Southwest]

I couldn't agree with you more Bill.

My hobby has been spoilt entirely by a user here and so I'm giving up. I'm fed up of trying to help people and being spat at in return.

 

[MatthewC]

I couldn't agree with you more Bill.

My hobby has been spoilt entirely by a user here and so I'm giving up. I'm fed up of trying to help people and being spat at in return.

Man i didn't think that it was a real problem here, i hope you can change your mind cause i really like your work but if you don't i will understand.

 

[khaos_56k]

I have seen those who've been a bit harsh but I hope it's more often just being misread... sarcasm definitely doesn't translate well and there are some here who don't speak/write English as their first language which can lead to a post that isn't as friendly as the user wanted. Regardless, I agree we should all make the effort to be as understanding and patient as possible. Some of us (me) are getting older and our minds aren't nearly as sharp as they use to be...

Should try developing for X Plane.
Almost all the FSX guys bully the X Plane developers.
Either that or they say nothing at all.
But VERY rarely will they throw out a compliment.

Goran, all I can say to that is FS9/FSX and X-Plane are so completely different in every way that the lack of response is probably because the majority of us here don't develop for it. I've looked into it myself but I saw it as too frustrating and aggravating to venture farther than "dipping my toe in the water". I have a hard enough time developing what little bit I do...

 

[GoranM]

Goran, all I can say to that is FS9/FSX and X-Plane are so completely different in every way that the lack of response is probably because the majority of us here don't develop for it. I've looked into it myself but I saw it as too frustrating and aggravating to venture farther than "dipping my toe in the water". I have a hard enough time developing what little bit I do...

X-Plane isn't for everyone and no one accepts that more than me. You tried it, it wasn't for you, you moved on. The lack of response doesn't bother me. It really doesn't. But when a person (a certain individual who will remain nameless until the end of this post) insinuates that I'm a liar, with regards to the time it took me to make an exterior aircraft mesh, it's hard not to take offense. That post this person made was several months ago. I responded to it, and not another word by way of an apology (even if it was an apology for a possible misunderstanding) was uttered by said individual. That tells me a lot. It's not as if I'm a threat to this person. We develop for 2 completely separate platforms. Also, it isn't the first time I've had a run in with this person.
This is not an isolated case. But I have to say, the number of FSX dvelopers throwing their weight around the x plane arena is countable on the fingers of 1 hand.

Sometimes I think I need to take a 9 to 5 job just to have a rest.

 

[hcornea]

I'd take it as complement.

It was quite an achievement to produce it within that timeframe.

The disbelief expressed was along those lines. I certainly would have taken months to make anything like that, if I could at all.

 

[lionheart]

X-Plane isn't for everyone and no one accepts that more than me. You tried it, it wasn't for you, you moved on. The lack of response doesn't bother me. It really doesn't. But when a person (a certain individual who will remain nameless until the end of this post) insinuates that I'm a liar, with regards to the time it took me to make an exterior aircraft mesh, it's hard not to take offense. That post this person made was several months ago. I responded to it, and not another word by way of an apology (even if it was an apology for a possible misunderstanding) was uttered by said individual. That tells me a lot. It's not as if I'm a threat to this person. We develop for 2 completely separate platforms. Also, it isn't the first time I've had a run in with this person.
This is not an isolated case. But I have to say, the number of FSX dvelopers throwing their weight around the x plane arena is countable on the fingers of 1 hand.

Goran M

Really good modelers can make fantastic models in a week. I was 'shown' this by Feng Zhu, lead designer for Lucas Movies (Star Wars) and now runs two art center colleges in Singapore. They (the new kids coming from college) can create the most amazing 3D finished, painted work, in a week, ready for a game. These are amazing people, driven hard with enthusiasm (and young age) and can do in 7 days what takes some of us (me) weeks.


So.... This can be so. My present 3D mesh artist does my planes in 'days' and it takes me weeks to finish the art on them and gauges. Days......

He is now working temporarily for Bill Leamings team. (Treat him nice. He's my shining model maker!)

I admire you for being able to do XPlane work. The animations look pretty intense in the tools they have. Do you do this as side work?


Bill

 

[treeman]

I believe there also used to be a decorum among developers not to publicly post unnecessary criticism and attacks against other developers.

Sadly that seems to have vanished.

 

[GoranM]

Really good modelers can make fantastic models in a week. I was 'shown' this by Feng Zhu, lead designer for Lucas Movies (Star Wars) and now runs two art center colleges in Singapore. They (the new kids coming from college) can create the most amazing 3D finished, painted work, in a week, ready for a game. These are amazing people, driven hard with enthusiasm (and young age) and can do in 7 days what takes some of us (me) weeks.


So.... This can be so. My present 3D mesh artist does my planes in 'days' and it takes me weeks to finish the art on them and gauges. Days......

He is now working temporarily for Bill Leamings team. (Treat him nice. He's my shining model maker!)

I admire you for being able to do XPlane work. The animations look pretty intense in the tools they have. Do you do this as side work?


Bill

Game developers are in a league of their own. My hat's off to those guys because they truly work at miracle speeds. My problem is I'm too picky and end up re-doing a lot of the mesh I worked on.

Animations in x plane are a little technical to work with, but once someone get's into the flow of it, it pretty much becomes second nature.
I'm fortunate enough to be doing this full time. That's why I sometimes spend up to 20 hours a day working on these add ons.

 

[Southwest]

Perhaps I was a little rash in my decision to stop developing. I will stop providing help to those who doesn't deserve it...

 

[Aviasim]

Perhaps I was a little rash in my decision to stop developing. I will stop providing help to those who doesn't deserve it...

Southwest,

It's a shame to see/here that you have withdrawn and cancelled your Plymouth airport scenery project, it was looking really nice and seemed very close to finish

 

[scruffyduck]

Guys

This is a moderatorial comment that some of the posts in this list are again getting personal. What started off as a good post about working together is just beginning to show signs of sharpened knifes. We will edit out direct attacks to avoid flame wars. As Dick says if you really have a beef with someone then take it off line or ask us to intervene.

 

[solid]

My two cents worth....Bill you are right. After what you have said I thought that it has been rather foolish ranting among ourselves about the Flight Game....we don´t really care an iota of it do we????...so if I have hurt someone´s feelings because of the looney game MS will regret having even thought of , I send a peace pipe and a bear hug!!!!...