FSXA Problem With Terrain Elevation

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

I again reviewed your project as last submitted in a ZIP file, and I see where I may have been mistaken as to your Nauru tutorial workflow.


I now do not see where you completed the Nauru tutorial procedures on Page-2, Steps 21-26.

That is the steps where you create a "Hole" in the surrounding CVX vector water tiles.

It is required to allow water to stay at the assigned values for 0 Meters AMSL. and separates the island area from default water tiles.


You do show an ABP flatten for the RWY / Airport area, and Shorelines; but I have not found the CVX vector "Hole" area demarcated.

That may explain the failure to assign elevation of surrounding water tiles independently from the island areas within the "Hole".

Subsequently, water Altitude may be uneven, and thus not flat / level.


Please review your workflow and be certain you have completed all steps as presented in that Nauru tutorial.

Then I would be willing to review an updated build of your project attached / linked here in a ZIP file.

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

Hi Ken:

I again reviewed your project as last submitted in a ZIP file, and I see where I may have been mistaken as to your Nauru tutorial workflow.


I now do not see where you completed the steps in the tutorial on Page-2 Steps 21-26.

That is the step where you create a "Hole" in the surrounding CVX vector water tiles.

That is required to allow water to stay at the assigned values for 0 Meters AMSL. and separates the island area from default water tiles.

Hi Gary,
I did completed the steps on page 2 steps 21-26. I followed every step that was outlined. But I did go back deleted the hydro poly and did it over again. It made no difference. the water is still not flat like yours. Since you're using my files that I sent you, it should look exactly the same on mine. If I did not do something correctly, it should show up on both our computers. There's one thing I wanted you to look at that I'm concerned about but I don't know if it plays a part in causing the water anomalies. Take a look at the authors work from the tutorial:

This is the CVX_HYDRO.BGL that replaced the default cvx9232.bgl. Now take a look at mines and noticed there are some differences in the QMID squares:

In the author's image, there are only 4 squares at the lower half of the island. Mine covers 8 squares, and the squares in my image are somewhat different than the author's. I don't know where those extra squares are coming from, but I selected QMID 7, just like the tutorial says, and the hydro poly covered the entire QMID 7 square, meaning that I clicked Fill to QMID 7. Of course, these images are zoomed in and you can't see the entire QMID 7 square. This may not be no concern but this has caught my attention.

but I have not found the CVX vector "Hole" area demarcate.

I'm not sure what you mean, but when I went back and redo my hydro poly, I've noticed that when I place my cursor over the poly line, the line I've used to cut a hole in the poly so that the image shows, it says 230-pts polygons of type none:

It's strange why it says "None." I was thinking it would give some type of name. When I zoomed out so that the entire QMID 7 square is shown, it does say Hydro Default Perinnial. Everything inside that QMID 7 square is blue, except the island. It doesn't appear that way because the transparency is turn down to 35 so that I can see where to draw the polygon. These are the only things I see that was concerning.

Please review your workflow and be certain you have completed all steps as presented in that Nauru tutorial.

Yes, I've completed those steps. Here's something else I thought about. Are all of these steps supposed to be carried out in the same project or am I supposed to do each project separately? The author did not say anything about doing them separately and I done everything in the same project. Here's another question: I'm sure the author was using SbuilderX verions 3.13. I'm using the latest version, 3.15. Would that make any difference here?

Then I would be willing to review an updated build of your project attached / linked here in a ZIP file.

Okay, here's the zip below. This is the SbuilderX project. The ADE project is still the same as the one I've posted. I think I've posted it.

Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

Okay, here's the zip below. This is the SbuilderX project.

Ken.

Hi Ken:

CVX vectors do not save in a SBuilderX Project file (*.SBP), whether a SBP is created manually or automatically at intervals.

SBuilderX Exchange files (*.SBX) must be created manually, and should be saved at each project step via:

SBuilderX Menu > File > Export > SBuilderX SBX ...

So, in SBuilderX we load / save ongoing projects via *.SBX files.

A SBuilderX SBP file is useful for 'some' limited non-CVX vector purposes; but projects with CVX vectors must be loaded / saved via a SBX


Please export from the current build of your Nauru tutorial SBuilderX project, a *.SBX, then ZIP and attach it here.

The ADE project is still the same as the one I've posted. I think I've posted it.

Ken.

NOTE: I do already have your last ADE *.AD4 from your completed current Nauru tutorial project; you attached it on thread Page (1) above:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/attachments/anyn_adex_km_alt-bgl.97317/


BTW: CVX vector data does not store in Airport BGLs; so in ADE we load / save ongoing projects via *.AD4 files.


FYI: In TMFViewer, if needed, we can better see water tile quads via: TMFViewer Menu > Vector Data > Polygons > Draw (un-check 'Fill')


I shall defer my reply to your other inquiries above until after your SBX has been attached, and I have had time to examine it.

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

Hi Ken:


SBuilderX Exchange files (*.SBX) must be created manually, and should be saved at each project step via:

SBuilderX Menu > File > Export > SBuilderX SBX ...

This is something I never known about until now. The tutorial only mentions saving and opening SBP files. So, thanks for that tip.

A SBuilderX SBP file is useful for 'some' limited non-CVX vector purposes; but projects with CVX vectors must be loaded / saved via a SBX

So, are you saying that I should always save my projects as SBX rather than SBP when they contain vectors?

Please export from the current build of your Nauru tutorial SBuilderX project, a *.SBX, then ZIP and attach it here.

Okay, I have it attached below. After I saved my project as SBX file, I imported the file but I don't see any difference here. It's the same as opening my SBP file. I hope I saved it correctly.

FYI: In TMFViewer, if needed, we can better see water tile quads via: TMFViewer Menu > Vector Data > Polygons > Draw (un-check 'Fill')

Okay, I have it unchecked. I can see the quads much better. Thanks. If I did not save it correctly, just let me know.


Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

Although I may be able to reconstruct and analyze part of your workflow from your ADE *.AD4 file, I can not yet do so in SBuilderX.

The Nauru tutorial steps analysis requires that I be able to see the imagery source files that your SBuilderX project is intended to work with according to the instructions you have saved within that project's *.SBP and *.SBX files

AFAIK, it may not be possible to properly reconstruct a SBuilderX project without having all source files along with the *.SBP and *.SBX files.

So one should have SBuilderX set to enable Undo, and auto-save the SBP file at timed intervals.

I believe you should recall that I have previously explained in at least (1) other thread, one should always first manually create a Project by entering a name in its Properties, enable Undo, then save that project file immediately to a designated folder path as a *.SBP file having a name matching that in its Properties.

Next, one should manually export a *.SBX file with a name matching that in its Properties.

At that point one is ready to work.


One must also manually export / over-write a *.SBX file at timed intervals while actively creating / editing SBuilderX project content.


On my installation of SBuilderX, when I load either your *.SBP or Append your *.SBX, all 'missing' imagery file linkages are deleted from the workspace, and IIUC, also from the *.SBP project file code (which is in proprietary Binary code that cannot be edited externally to 'fix' it).


Those 'missing' imagery file linkage files are in the *.SBX file you last attached here, and can be seen by opening in NotePad- (but not editing- or saving- into):

Nauru International Airport.SBX

[Map.1]
Name=Photo01
BMPSu=C:\SbuilderX 315\Tools\Work\L17X252608X252653Y131432Y131479.BMP
BMPSp=C:\SbuilderX 315\Tools\Work\L17X252608X252653Y131432Y131479.BMP
BMPFa=C:\SbuilderX 315\Tools\Work\L17X252608X252653Y131432Y131479.BMP
BMPWi=C:\SbuilderX 315\Tools\Work\L17X252608X252653Y131432Y131479.BMP
BMPHw=C:\SbuilderX 315\Tools\Work\L17X252608X252653Y131432Y131479.BMP
BMPLm=C:\SbuilderX 315\Tools\Work\L17X252608X252653Y131432Y131479.BMP
Cols= 11776
Rows= 12288
NLat=-.494378630962907
SLat=-.560293804171985
ELon= 166.967468261719
WLon= 166.904296875

[Map.2]
Name=Photo01
BMPSu=C:\SbuilderX 315\Tools\Nauru.BMP
BMPSp=C:\SbuilderX 315\Tools\Nauru.BMP
BMPFa=C:\SbuilderX 315\Tools\Nauru.BMP
BMPWi=C:\SbuilderX 315\Tools\Nauru.BMP
BMPHw=C:\SbuilderX 315\Tools\Nauru.BMP
BMPLm=C:\SbuilderX 315\Tools\Nauru.BMP
Cols= 3500
Rows= 3652
NLat=-.494378630962907
SLat=-.560293804171985
ELon= 166.967468261719
WLon= 166.904296875


Note that these are your source files, which must accompany the *.SBP and *.SBX files for your SBuilderX project to be properly loaded / restored.


Please use 7-Zip to create a multi-part archive with file sizes that do not exceed 200mb per each part when the archive is created:

https://www.7-zip.org/download.html

1.) Create a folder on your Windows Desktop named: kmanning_Nauru_imagery_temp

2.) Copy into that folder, both of these files located at these paths, ...on your computer:

C:\SbuilderX 315\Tools\Work\L17X252608X252653Y131432Y131479.BMP

C:\SbuilderX 315\Tools\Nauru.BMP


3.) In 7-Zip file manager:

a.) Browse to your Desktop

b.) Select the kmanning_Nauru_imagery_temp folder you just created

c.) 7-Zip file manager menu > File > 7-Zip > Add to archive ... > Split to volumes, bytes > 200000000 (2 followed by 8 zeros) > click [OK]


4.) In your web browser:

a.) Log in to your MediaFire.com account

b.) Launch the 'Select Files' drop target feature


5.) In Windows Explorer / File Manager:

a.) Select all the numbered ZIP multipart archive files just created by 7-Zip File Manager on your Windows Desktop

c.) Drag-and-Drop, all selected, numbered ZIP multipart archive files just created by 7-Zip, into your web browser > MediaFire 'Select Files' drop target


6.) In your web browser:

a.) In your MediaFire account > 'Select Files' drop target feature > click [ UPLOAD ] button

b.) In your MediaFire account >'Upload Completed' dialog > click Copy Link

c.) Insert that copied link URL to your 7-Zip archive(s) on MediaFire ...into a link within a posted reply in this thread


Perhaps with the full set of source files for your Nauru tutorial SBuilderX project, I can then further troubleshoot your reported issues.

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

Hi Gary,

Here are the Files you requested. I hope it did it correctly in 7-zip because this is a new one for me. I use winzip.

kmanning_Nauru_imagery_temp.7z

MediaFire is a simple to use free service that lets you put all your photos, documents, music, and video in a single place so you can access them anywhere and share them everywhere.

www.mediafire.com

kmanning_Nauru_imagery_temp.7z

MediaFire is a simple to use free service that lets you put all your photos, documents, music, and video in a single place so you can access them anywhere and share them everywhere.

www.mediafire.com

7-Zip created 2 files and I didn't know if you needed both. So I went ahead and uploaded both of them.

Ken.

 

[kmanning]

Hi Ken:

Although I may be able to reconstruct and analyze part of your workflow from your ADE *.AD4 file, I can not yet do so in SBuilderX.

The Nauru tutorial steps analysis requires that I be able to see the imagery source files that your SBuilderX project is intended to work with according to the instructions you have saved within that project's *.SBP and *.SBX files

AFAIK, it may not be possible to properly reconstruct a SBuilderX project without having all source files along with the *.SBP and *.SBX files.

So one should have SBuilderX set to enable Undo, and auto-save the SBP file at timed intervals.

It's strange why it doesn't show the image. I can open my Nauru project file and the image is always there. But I do have to deselect the water class under Views, in order to see my image. I've looked it up in google search and it did say that when you need to export or share a project in a more comprehensive and editable format, you would export it as an .SBX file.

I believe you should recall that I have previously explained in another thread, one should always first manually create a Project by entering a name in its Properties, enable Undo, then save that project file immediately to a designated folder path as a *.SBP file having a name matching that in its Properties.

Yes, I knew about that one. It was the SBX that I didn't know about until you brought it up. I can now open my project as a text file when I export sbx.

Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

Just a quick post before I get an opportunity to look at the SBuilderX project with a complete file set.


You may want to review a related thread post by Jim Robinson which addresses some issues that may be comparable to yours:

https://www.flightsim.com/forums/to...reate-photoreal-scenery-for-fsxquot-tutorial/

Jim Robinson
Posted February 26, 2015

"The hydro polys should have a flattening effect, you shouldn't see the island except for some shorelines and stuff at the airport until you cut the hole for the island. Your photoscenery will always take priority over landclass though so even if you've turned the entire area into water your photoreal island will show on top of it (but it won't have any height). You should end up with a landclass island if you disable the photo.bgl, the only difference from default will be the new landclass island's shorelines will match the photoreal island.


I just tested and noticed an oddity at Nauru, it's like the hydro polys set at "0" are submerged or something. I see land in the entirety of both QMID cells when I tried to repeat your scenario. I've never had to do this before but I "set altitude" of .01m on the hydro polys and everything fell into place.


Try it like this:

(disable your photoreal first temporarily)

-Draw a huge poly encompassing both QMID 11 cells plus a few meters in all directions, tag it Hydro_generic_ocean_perennial, set altitude to .01m


-Click out the outline of the island with another poly, polygon_of_type_none is fine


-select the island poly, right click and "set as hole", click the edge of the huge hydro poly to define it as "parent", it should make a hole


-select the island poly again, right click and "make line", set the line to Shorelines_generic_ocean


-select the large outer hydro poly and slice to QMID 11


-delete the poly strips left around the edges of the QMID cells


-make another small triangular poly extending into both QMID cells, tag it exclude_all_water_polys, right click, fill to QMID11


-make another small triangular poly extending into both QMID cells, tag it exclude_all_shorelines, right click, fill to QMID11


-save


-select > all polygons, select > all lines, compile and move the .bgl


That should give you a landclass island with the correct shape. Now enable your photoreal and see if everything looks OK, you may need to adjust a shoreline here and there."

< This concludes the excerpted quote of Jim Robinson Posted February 26, 2015 >

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

Hi Ken:

Just a quick post before I get an opportunity to look at the SBuilderX project with a complete file set.
You may want to review a related thread post by Jim Robinson which addresses some issues that may be comparable to yours:

https://www.flightsim.com/forums/to...reate-photoreal-scenery-for-fsxquot-tutorial/

Jim Robinson
Posted February 26, 2015

Hi Gary,

I reviewed the tutorial by Jim Robinson and the only thing that was comparable to mine is regarding the moving of the cvx9232.bgl file from it's default location. Jim answered the very thing I was concerned about regarding the tutorial I'm was following. In the tutorial I was following, the author mentioned to move the cvx9232.bgl to another folder. That seemed strange to me since we're supposed to exclude them and not move them. I did move the file but I at least backed it up. Jim stated one should never move a default file from it's original location and that it should be excluded, not moved.

I just tested and noticed an oddity at Nauru, it's like the hydro polys set at "0" are submerged or something.

I have no idea what he's talking about. It would have been nice if he had posted images showing exactly what he's talking about. I don't see any hydro polys that look submerged. If the hydro polys are set at 0, they are not submerged. If set to 0.01, that would put the poly at 0.01 meter above sea level. I don't see how setting the altitude to 0.01 meters would make a hydro poly fall into place. 0.01 meters is less than half an inch.

I see land in the entirety of both QMID cells when I tried to repeat your scenario. I've never had to do this before but I "set altitude" of .01m on the hydro polys and everything fell into place.

Again, I have no idea what he's talking about.

-Draw a huge poly encompassing both QMID 11 cells

Why is he using QMID 11? The original cvx9232.bgl is QMID 7.

By the way, did you found out anything regarding the last files I've sent you?


Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Gary,

I reviewed the tutorial by Jim Robinson and the only thing that was comparable to mine is regarding the moving of the cvx9232.bgl file from it's default location. Jim answered the very thing I was concerned about regarding the tutorial I'm was following. In the tutorial I was following, the author mentioned to move the cvx9232.bgl to another folder. That seemed strange to me since we're supposed to exclude them and not move them. I did move the file but I at least backed it up. Jim stated one should never move a default file from it's original location and that it should be excluded, not moved.

Indeed, the "Best Practice" for SDK compliant FS Development is to Exclude then Replace default and/or other custom scenery content.

Tiberius, author of the Nauru tutorial assumes end users do that for use only on their own FSX installation; but still a "No-No", IMHO.

But, Nauru is out in the middle of nowhere, and anything one does locally is unlikely to impact any other FSX scenery in the region.


Furthermore, at that time, ACES and the FSDEV community did not know of a way to exclude GPSHydroPolys.

CvxExtractor had not yet been developed, so FSX default CVX9232 output could not be used to fix GPSHydroPolygons within the file.

CVX9232, shows typical FSX misaligned GPSHydroPolys, could not be 'fixed' at the time, so was best dealt with by being replaced entirely.


Tiberius "moved" CVX9232 out of FSX \Scenery\1104 folder, and makes a replacement via SBuilderX / ADE CVX vector files rather than making a corrected CVX9232 by name, and then restoring it to FSX \Scenery\1104 folder.


I would have left CVX9232 intact, then CvxExtracted / Excluded / Replaced its CVX vector content via SBuilderX and ADE CVX vector files.

I also would have "fixed" GPSHydroPolygons that use a mesh-clinging attribute, by copying accurate Hydro Polygon coordinates.


In a *.BLN extracted from FSX default CVX9232 output by CvxExtractor, we find code used for GPSHydroPolygons within the file:

NOTE: X,Y,Z record field 3 (Z) = Altitude in Meters; -9999 is a legacy pre-FSX "No-Data" fallback to terrain-mesh-clinging

5,1,GPSHydroPolygons_0_0
165.234375,0,-9999
165,0,-9999
165,-5.36441802978516E-06,-9999
165.234375,-5.36441802978516E-06,-9999
165.234375,0,-9999
Compare the above to an actual Hydro Polygon from the same extracted *.BLN CVX vector data file:

NOTE: X,Y,Z record field 3 (Z) = Altitude in Meters; 0 forces terrain mesh to 0 Meters AMSL
5,1,HydroPolygons_0_0
165.234375,-5.36441802978516E-06,0
165,-5.36441802978516E-06,0
165,-0.17578125,0
165.234375,-0.17578125,0
165.234375,-5.36441802978516E-06,0

BTW: AFAIK, FSX Terrain.Cfg does not define GPSHydroPolygon, WaterPolysGPS or anything containing the string GPS.

Jim Robinson
Posted February 26, 2015

I just tested and noticed an oddity at Nauru, it's like the hydro polys set at "0" are submerged or something.

I have no idea what he's talking about. It would have been nice if he had posted images showing exactly what he's talking about. I don't see any hydro polys that look submerged. If the hydro polys are set at 0, they are not submerged. If set to 0.01, that would put the poly at 0.01 meter above sea level. I don't see how setting the altitude to 0.01 meters would make a hydro poly fall into place. 0.01 meters is less than half an inch.

There are numerous areas of water visibly at Altitudes below 0 Meters AMSL adjacent to Nauru RWY; I have not checked all shorelines.

These areas 'may' render from GPSHydroPolygons used to form water that are not aligned to accurate fully SDK manageable Hydro Polygons.

These are referred to in the SDK SHP2VEC docs as "WaterPolysGPS".


GPSHydroPolygons are "terrain-mesh-clinging, and will drape onto any area at any Altitude assigned in the terrain surface beneath them.

So, without a local flatten to 0 Meters AMSL, the water will not be flat / level.


CVX vector hydro / water tiles must be assigned flat / level Altitudes at 0 Meters AMSL to also flatten SRTM-derived terrain mesh.


GPSHydroPolygons also require an underlying local flatten to force them to 0 Meters AMSL.


A underlying local flatten "should" be provided by Hydro Polygons normally present in CVX9232 and/or its replacement CVX Vector BGL.


Perhaps something went wrong with creation of Hydro Polygons normally present in CVX9232 and/or its replacement CVX Vector BGL?


If the "Hole" was not formed properly surrounding Nauru's land mass to separate it from the adjacent water, Hydro polys may 'fail'.

In that scenario, water displayed at run time may "fall back" to GPSHydroPolygons currently assigned to be "terrain-mesh-clinging".


I will need to examine further the CVX vectors used with the intention to create the "hole" cited above.


BTW: Nauru tides IRL, would likely not exceed 1 Meter max except with storm surges; FSX "Living Water" levels alternate +/- 1Ft. only.

Jim Robinson
Posted February 26, 2015

I see land in the entirety of both QMID cells when I tried to repeat your scenario. I've never had to do this before but I "set altitude" of .01m on the hydro polys and everything fell into place.

Again, I have no idea what he's talking about.

Why is he using QMID 11? The original cvx9232.bgl is QMID 7.

It may be that there is a quirk in the way GPSHydroPolygons "fall back" to underlying terrain mesh via FSX' rendering engine.

Perhps only GPSHydroPolygons are displayed locally near Nauru RWY, rather than with 'accompanying' Hydro Polygons ?


Might this be due to Hydro Polygon CVX object failure, causing them to not be flat, and not flatten terrain and GPSHydroPolygons ?


FYI: Most CVX vectors are clipped at LOD-9 / QMID-11 boundaries in the FS TMF Quad Grid system for terrain.

Only Freeway Traffic CVX vectors are clipped at LOD-13 / QMID-15 boundaries in the FS TMF Quad Grid system for terrain.

Numbered \Scenery 'Areas' contain numerous CVX BGLs, each of which are LOD-5 / QMID-7 in their extent of coverage.

By the way, did you found out anything regarding the last files I've sent you?

They are still undergoing analysis; I may be able to post more regarding my findings this afternoon or evening.

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

I am continuing to trace my way through this thread in an attempt to troubleshoot your run time rendering anomaly at Nauru.

As I went through each post in this thread, I found it significant to consider the FSX run time rendering you achieved in this post:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/problem-with-terrain-elevation.460137/post-934969

If we match IRL, FS custom PR imagery shorelines slope down into FS Hydro Polygons and eventually blend into FS Water Class.

The image above shows a precise render of your ABP Flatten Polygon adjacent to water portions of the aerial imagery.


You may recall that I had listed my FSX installation settings from FSX.Cfg for terrain in the preceding post in this same thread:

My FPS is 100 - 300 in FSX on my current computer build, so all settings are 'maxed out', and FSX.Cfg is set at:

[TERRAIN]
LOD_RADIUS=4.500000
MESH_COMPLEXITY=100
MESH_RESOLUTION=25
TEXTURE_RESOLUTION=29
AUTOGEN_DENSITY=5
IMAGE_PIXELS_FOR_AUTOGEN_POLYGONS=1024
DETAIL_TEXTURE=1
WATER_EFFECTS=7

GaryGB

IIUC, you rendered your personal Nauru tutorial scenery project results in FSX with that apparently 'correct' display.

In that same post, you also compared results you see if you change your own Terrain Mesh Resolution to lower settings.


FYI: If you change Terrain MESH_RESOLUTION to lower settings, FSX decreases density of "grid" elevation data points per Meter.

If you change Terrain MESH_COMPLEXITY to lower settings, FSX decreases density of "vector" elevation data points per Meter.


You must enable both "gridded terrain mesh" (compiled by SDK Resample) and "vector TINs" (compiled by SDK SHP2VEC) as I did, in order to achieve the display of the precise edges of your ABP flatten polygon adjacent to where elevation drops down to MSL.

You must be certain that your FSX.Cfg terrain sub-section settings match those that I posted in order for FSX to enable that rendering.


NOTE: Before we dig further into the methods you used for geometry of your own CVX vectors to verify whether all Hydro Polygons are intact / filled QMID-11 'clips', I believe we should consider what Jim Robinson has explained in this additional thread on a related topic:

https://web.archive.org/web/2014070...t-project-with-FSBuilder-X-and-first-problems


Additionally, here's a few links which might yield some insights on how to work with lines / polygons in SBuilderX:


https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=S7MkXd3QDY2C9PwPpsOqqAo&q=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+GaryGB+SBuilderX+norman+SWF+ydro+flatten&oq=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+GaryGB+SBuilderX+norman+SWF+ydro+flatten&gs_l=psy-ab.3...2125.50802..51528...4.0..0.223.4113.47j1j1......0....1j2..gws-wiz.....0..0i131j0.3KiYO1yxolI


Of particular note is the SBuilderX developer Luis Sa' tutorial video (ShockWave Flash format) showing 'clipping' to terrain quad borders:

http://www.ptsim.com/sbuilderx/videos/normans.swf

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/nice-island_no-mesh.427225/post-647843


https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en&ei=-BybWvD_EovajwOhi53YBw&q=site:+www.ptsim.com+SBuilder+line+polygon+copy+paste&oq=site:+www.ptsim.com+SBuilder+line+polygon+copy+paste&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.12...16050.22280..24989...0....372.1075.0j3j1j1..........1..mobile-gws-wiz-serp.n5QsuBqzGrg=


NOTE: MS Edge and Chrome reportedly can play .SWF ShockWave Flash files, but this may be disabled by security apps.

How to play a SWF ('Adobe ShockWave Flash') file in Windows Media Player

Change the default program for opening a .SWF file to Windows Media Player by:

1.) Right-click the normans.swf file > Properties > General > Change > Windows Media Player.

2.) After this 'Windows file association' is done, Double-click normans.swf file to play it in Windows Media Player.


BTW: If your version of Windows does not provide Windows Media Player, you can play normans.swf in VideoLAN's "VLC" instead:

https://www.videolan.org/vlc/


https://www.google.com/search?q=VLC+SWF+('Adobe+ShockWave+Flash')&client=firefox-b-1-e&sca_esv=8d2e7353062bdfd4&channel=entpr&ei=DVKXaJCLLpbIwN4PkIbBiQU&ved=0ahUKEwjQxam-7_2OAxUWJNAFHRBDMFEQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=VLC+SWF+('Adobe+ShockWave+Flash')&gs_lp=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-yBwM0LjG4B74DwgcFMi01LjHIByE&sclient=gws-wiz-serp


GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

Hi Ken:

I am continuing to trace my way through this thread in an attempt to troubleshoot your run time rendering anomaly at Nauru.

As I went through each post in this thread, I found it significant to consider the FSX run time rendering you achieved in this post:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/problem-with-terrain-elevation.460137/post-934969

If we match IRL, FS custom PR imagery shorelines slope down into FS Hydro Polygons and eventually blend into FS Water Class.

The image above shows a precise render of your ABP Flatten Polygon adjacent to water portions of the aerial imagery.


You may recall that I had listed my FSX installation settings from FSX.Cfg for terrain in the preceding post in this same thread:

Yes, I do recall, and yours was different from mines. You had mentioned that from the menu bar in FSX, your settings in Options\Settings\Displays\and under the Scenery tab, you had all your sliders set at maximum. Even with all your sliders set at maximum, your water still looks flat and does not look like the image above. But when mine are all set at maximum, it looks like the image above. Based on what I've read now, it appears that the above image is correct. What I don't understand is why is your water flat when all your sliders are set to maximum?

You must enable both "gridded terrain mesh" (compiled by SDK Resample) and "vector TINs" (compiled by SDK SHP2VEC) as I did, in order to achieve the display of the precise edges of your ABP flatten polygon adjacent to where elevation drops down to MSL.

Yes I agree, but why is it that your image doesn't look like the image above? The water in your image that you posted was flat with the surrounding terrain and looked like this:

Since you're using the files I sent you, something is happening to make our images look different, and I have my settings matched to what you've posted and I've also set the FSX.cfg to the same settings as yours.

You must be certain that your FSX.Cfg terrain sub-section settings match those that I posted in order for FSX to enable that rendering.

Yes, I did. But I don't like the water settings at maximum. I normally don't use max settings but they're close to it.

NOTE: Before we dig further into the methods you used for geometry of your own CVX vectors to verify whether all Hydro Polygons are intact / filled QMID-11 'clips', I believe we should consider what Jim Robinson has explained in this additional thread on a related topic:

https://web.archive.org/web/2014070...t-project-with-FSBuilder-X-and-first-problems

I've reviewed it but every time I clicked on the image link, the images were not available, and those images would help out a lot in explaining things. That happens to me just about every time. A picture is worth a thousand words.

https://web.archive.org/web/2014070...t-project-with-FSBuilder-X-and-first-problems

Of particular note is the SBuilderX developer Luis Sa' tutorial video (ShockWave Flash format) showing 'clipping' to terrain quad borders:

http://www.ptsim.com/sbuilderx/videos/normans.swf

The only thing I see is a flickering in the video. Is that the clipping?


Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

Yes, I do recall, and yours was different from mines. You had mentioned that from the menu bar in FSX, your settings in Options\Settings\Displays\and under the Scenery tab, you had all your sliders set at maximum. Even with all your sliders set at maximum, your water still looks flat and does not look like the image above. But when mine are all set at maximum, it looks like the image above. Based on what I've read now, it appears that the above image is correct.

What I don't understand is why is your water flat when all your sliders are set to maximum?

We may- or may not- be able to sort that out between (2) different computers with differing FSX installations / configurations / histories.

Yes I agree, but why is it that your image doesn't look like the image above? The water in your image that you posted was flat with the surrounding terrain and looked like this:


Since you're using the files I sent you, something is happening to make our images look different, and I have my settings matched to what you've posted and I've also set the FSX.cfg to the same settings as yours.

We may- or may not- be able to sort that out between (2) different computers with differing FSX installations / configurations / histories.

Yes, I did. But I don't like the water settings at maximum. I normally don't use max settings but they're close to it.

For development and testing purposes, please manually edit FSX.Cfg to impose those settings, or we risk not being on the "same" page.


These types of troubleshooting scenarios typically occur when end users do not precisely follow instructions in tutorials or in threads.

It is impractical attempting to 'audit' every step that 'may' have caused you to not achieve a successful result with the Nauru tutorial.


You may- or may not- be able to achieve similar terrain rendering at run time on your computer as I do on mine.


It may not be possible to match FS configurations to achieve identical runtime rendering of (2) computers with different histories.


The first thing required to match FS configurations is both such computers reinstalling Windows and FSX (I do not recommend that).


AFAIK, no one here can guarantee you will be successful even if you meticulously perform every step of the tutorial ...as Tiberius wrote.

At some point we may simply have to recommend a newer solution that utilizes more current methods to achieve a successful result.


Personally, I do not use "Holes", nor do I leave slope rendering up to "falloff" via end user FS terrain mesh / CVX vector configuration.

Thus, I would use a distinct workflow to create "my" version of Nauru, whether in FSX / P3D / MSFS ...to ensure specific rendering.


I have already mentioned that you may need to create a TIN to slope from Nauru's AB flatten Polygon down to water level.

Before doing that, we must examine the main suspected cause of your water not being flat / level surrounding Nauru.

The chief suspect is a failure to properly implement CVX vector geometry for Nauru water tiles within their QMID-11 quad borders.


Delving into legacy FS endeavors via may be gratifying for those seeking new perspectives on the past; at best we learn new things.

But, it is important to recognize that FS has moved on to new methods for a new platform, that yields better performance than FS2Kx.


In the case of SBuilderX, one may learn more about how to use it for developing content that can also be imported into MSFS.

We should not allocate too much time and effort on this; troubleshooting this tutorial takes away from opportunities to learn other things more relevant to development for newer versions of FS, which are likely to provide a far more satisfying experience.

I've reviewed it but every time I clicked on the image link, the images were not available, and those images would help out a lot in explaining things. That happens to me just about every time. A picture is worth a thousand words.

https://web.archive.org/web/2014070...t-project-with-FSBuilder-X-and-first-problems

That is a known problem when images are linked to discussions, then linked files are deleted from the linked URL.

I linked that thread because IMHO, it is a pertinent 'text' discussion, regardless of whether its Page-2, or the images ...are available.

The only thing I see is a flickering in the (SWF) video. Is that the clipping?

Before we proceed further, I recommend you review the linked video I had linked above by SBuilderX author Luis Vieira de Sa:

http://www.ptsim.com/sbuilderx/videos/normans.swf


I have had no success getting that video to convert properly to commonly used video formats; its original format was a 'complex' SWF.


I have found a free utility to play the SWF video from a direct installation of "Ruffle" in Windows (rather than using its browser plugin)

https://ruffle.rs/

Ruffle - Flash Emulator

Ruffle is a Flash Player emulator written in Rust. Ruffle targets both desktop and the web using WebAssembly.

ruffle.rs

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

While I await your reply regarding the issues involving your workflow creating the geometry for your Nauru project CVX vector content, I am now planning to examine the source imagery used to create the SBuilderX Photo BGL, as SDK TMFViewer is of limited use here.


Upon initial inspection of what BMP files you have submitted thus far, I only see the (2) BMP files listed in your SBuilderX.ini file ...here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/problem-with-terrain-elevation.460137/post-935057



However, I do not yet see the source imagery used to create the SBuilderX Photo BGL which should be named "Nauru original.bmp".

That image should contain your Watermasks and Blendmasks from "PART III - Watermasks and Blendmasks" Steps 1- 27.


[EDITED]

To verify Geographic coordinates associated with your source imagery and quads, I shall also need to review Geo-referencing info for:

C:\SbuilderX 315\Tools\Work\L17X252608X252653Y131432Y131479.BMP copied / renamed to: "Nauru original.bmp"


That Geo-referencing info I shall require will be in:

C:\SbuilderX 315\Tools\Work\L17X252608X252653Y131432Y131479.TXT

...so, please include that in a multi-part 7-Zip archive group of your files as described in the following below.

[END_EDIT]


I will also need to examine your multi-source SDK Resample "Nauru.INF" file from:

"PART IV - Working with resample.exe" Steps 1- 6


Please use 7-Zip to create a multi-part archive containing the above specified files.

Then post a link via MediaFire, to all the files that 7-Zip creates, using the procedures I already described in my post above:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/problem-with-terrain-elevation.460137/post-935057

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

Hi Gary,

I just happened to check by and noticed that you've posted. But for some reason I never got an e-mail alerting me to your posts. I'll have the files posted some time today.

Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

Please note that I edited my post above to ensure that you also include (1) additional file with a multi-part 7-Zip archive group of your files:

C:\SbuilderX 315\Tools\Work\L17X252608X252653Y131432Y131479.TXT

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/problem-with-terrain-elevation.460137/post-935138



Additionally, I need to verify that you actually did edit your SBuilderX.INI file to the configuration required to project photo BGLs properly:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/problem-with-terrain-elevation.460137/post-934845

The custom photo-real aerial imagery land class BGL for Nauru that was created when SBuilderX had ReprojectMercatorTiles=False should be re-compiled with ReprojectMercatorTiles=True.

GaryGB

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/problem-with-terrain-elevation.460137/post-934850

Okay. I'll do that.

Ken.

I must verify this, as it seems you overlooked fixing this SBuilderX.INI file parameter setting, so Geographic coordinates may be wrong.

SDK TMFViewer shows your SBuilderX Photo BGLs projected in a "warped" output format.


Building footprints looking slightly 'rhombohedral' is not uncommon; but TMFViewer BGL display suggests improper imagery projection.


This would mean that your source imagery including Land-Water and Blend masks may be in the wrong GIS projection.

They must be in EPSG:4326 when output by SBuilderX into the [SBuilderX install path]\Tools\Work sub-folder.

Some or all CVX vectors may also be wrong, if they were traced over the "warped" incorrectly projected source imagery


NOTE: This addresses both incidental visual warping, and position of imagery relative to TMF Quad Grid QMID-11 vertices / edges.

So, if you have not done so already, please fully re-compose your project before re-posting a link to your "corrected" Nauru project.

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

Hi Ken:

Please note that I edited my post above to ensure that you also include (1) additional file with a multi-part 7-Zip archive group of your files:

C:\SbuilderX 315\Tools\Work\L17X252608X252653Y131432Y131479.TXT

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/problem-with-terrain-elevation.460137/post-935138

Okay, got it.
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/problem-with-terrain-elevation.460137/post-935138

Additionally, I need to verify that you actually did edit your SBuilderX.INI file to the configuration required to project photo BGLs properly:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/problem-with-terrain-elevation.460137/post-934845

Yes. I have ReprojectMercatorTiles=True and AddToCells=True
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/problem-with-terrain-elevation.460137/post-934845

I must verify this, as it seems you overlooked fixing this SBuilderX.INI file parameter setting, so Geographic coordinates may be wrong.

Do I need to recompile a new Photo01.blg as well as the bitmap and text files?

SDK TMFViewer shows your SBuilderX Photo BGLs projected in a "warped" output format

Exactly how did you determined that my Photo01.blg showed projection in a warped format? Was it by the shape of it? Mine does show it to be more narrow than the bitmap shows it, and it does appear warped. But I don't know why. I did set the INI before I redone my project. I've tried tried it with them set to false but I get the same results. But I did set them both back to True. So, should the Photo01.bgl have the exact same shape as the original bitmap?

They must be in EPSG:4326 when output by SBuilderX into the {SBuilderX install path]\Tools\Work sub-folder.

How can I be very sure that I have EPSG:4326 other than making sure that I have ReprojectMercatorTiles=True and AddToCells=True? I mean is there another way to be sure?


Here are the files you requested:


https://www.mediafire.com/file/dvfrlskgrq0p37v/L17X252608X252653Y131432Y131479.TXT/file

https://www.mediafire.com/file/2rhmbcvkspn71ub/Nauru.INF/file

https://www.mediafire.com/file/4xehebfbp4prh0g/L17X252608X252653Y131432Y131479.BMP/file

https://www.mediafire.com/file/jxkjsdwqiwovho0/Nauru+Original.BMP/file


I hope I have them all.

Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

I have downloaded the (4) files linked in your post above.

Thus far, the aerial imagery BMP output by SBuilderX' tile downloader does not show warped / 'rhombohedral' roofs.


But, my intent to fully re-compose your project is still hindered by missing files.


Your SDK Resample INF files lists these source files as:

* Nauru Watermask.bmp

...and:

* Nauru Blendmask.bmp

Please 7-ZIP / link as above, your Watermask and Blendmask from "PART III - Watermasks and Blendmasks" Steps 1- 27


Additionally, your SDK Resample INF files lists the output file as:

* Nauru.BGL


Please 7-ZIP / link as above, your output file Nauru.bgl from "PART IV - Working with resample.exe" Steps 1 - (7)


Your next procedures in the Tiberius Nauru Tutorial would be "PART V - Working with SBuilderX - Polygons" Steps 1 - 34

In step 32 you should have output a file that is renamed to: CVX_HYDRO.BGL

Please 7-ZIP / link as above, that output file


Your next procedures in the Tiberius Nauru Tutorial would be "PART VI - Working with SBuilderX - Shorelines" Steps 1 - 12

In step 10 you should have output a file that is renamed to: CVX_SHORELINES.BGL

Please 7-ZIP / link as above, that output file


Your next procedures in the Tiberius Nauru Tutorial would be "PART VII - Working with SBuilderX - Water Class" Steps 1 - 6

In step 6 you should have output a file that is named: WC_9232.bgl

Please 7-ZIP / link as above, that output file


In SBuilderX step 6 you also should have saved a *.SBP project file and exported a *.SBX exchange file

Please 7-ZIP / link as above, those SBuilderX files


Your next procedures in the Tiberius Nauru Tutorial would be "PART VIII - Working with Airport Design Editor" Steps 1 - 30

In step 30 you should have saved a *.AD4 file.

Please 7-ZIP / link as above, that ADE output file


After I have downloaded from your links to those files cited above, I will notify you as to whether additional files are required.

That would likely be mid-morning Chicago USA time.

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

Hi Gary,

I've tried to upload all the files at once but I had to upload the rest that showed errors. The only files that showed errors were the watermask and blendmask. files. The progress bar got up to 99% and it seemed to just stop. I got tired of waiting so I just uploaded them again. I hope they're all intact, not missing anything, or show errors.

Here are the requested files:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/36zuwmtqkkprx6p/ANYN_ADEX_KM.ad4/file

https://www.mediafire.com/file/xtilbkhnnwx0lfu/CVX_HYDRO.BGL/file

https://www.mediafire.com/file/y9o6e746jb083kq/CVX_SHORELINE.BGL/file

https://www.mediafire.com/file/c5n4s8kxswxkusd/Nauru.bgl/file

https://www.mediafire.com/file/56g0eeh4wf2jfm9/Nauru.SBX/file

https://www.mediafire.com/file/w5cqh10tb18f44e/Nauru_Original_Project.SBP/file

https://www.mediafire.com/file/c1quemo11nea084/WC_9232.bgl/file

https://www.mediafire.com/file/u7xc6b7pyej9fnu/Nauru+Watermask.bmp/file

https://www.mediafire.com/file/h724lnszphlqolq/Nauru+Blendmask.bmp/file


You may noticed that my SBP Project File name has been changed from Nauru.SBP to Nauru_Original_Project. After making changes I saved the Nauru.SBP. I was afraid to delete what I had added, or changed. So, I just temporarly deleted the added items and saved it with a new name and closed it without saving the project. I hope that doesn't affect anything because of the naming.

Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

Just a quick status on my inquiry into your Nauru project.


The Shoreline is just that, a "LINE", which by default is set to an assigned width, and it clings to the underlying terrain.

So, underlying SRTM terrain mesh rendering (that may be anomalous due to misc. FSX.Cfg settings) makes varied Water Altitudes.

Only farther offshore would the Water Tiles that were filled to QMID-7 border ...end up assigned 0 Meters AMSL.


You may wish to achieve a more natural slope- or flatten- from the island Land areas (including ICAO ANYN's ABP).

To do that requires converting the textured line (currently assigned to a strip width of 80 Meters) to a sloped terrain Polygon.


IRL the shoreline 'Breakers' wave zone is 160 to 200 Meters in width according to Google Earth aerial imagery.

You may wish to change SBuilderX' CVX vector Line for that shoreline to 160 Meters total width after converting it to a Polygon.


To do this properly, you would best not use the SBuilderX built-in "Convert to Poly" feature so save work.


You must pre-configure all outer 'Water' Poly-line peripheral border vertex Altitudes of the intended Polygon to 0 Meters AMSL.

This would use the SBuilderX "constant" Altitude option for all selected vertices of that Poly-line.


The inner 'Land' Poly-line peripheral border of the intended Polygon is to be pre-configured as terrain mesh-clinging.

That original shoreline will require 'some' vertex edits to use SBuilderX "variable" Altitude values in Meters AMSL as its Poly-line abuts 'Land'.


After all longer inner and outer Poly-line border vertices of the intended Polygon have Altitudes assigned, we "join" the lines.

As we "join" those lines, we 'close' to form a Polygon with Altitudes variable at Land and constant at Water (0 Meters AMSL).


But before doing this, the intended Polygon must be segmented to Triangles to form an equivalent of a sloped terrain Polygon TIN.

[EDITED]

This task would best be done in a GIS app or Sketchup, to ensure all X, Y, Z, (Lon / Lat / Alt) fields are kept intact as one exports a ESRI SHP.

The resulting ESRI SHP can then be Appended to SBuilderX, and one then would reassign CVX vector attributes to the Polygon.

This will allow the terrain to slope from Land into Water at assigned Altitudes, over-riding underlying SRTM terrain grid, and TIN "fall-off" mesh anomalies.

Rendering this with precision in FSX at run time would also require use of max terrain parameter settings in FSX.CFG as I showed above in this thread.

Alternatively, CVX vector water tiles at 0 Meters AMSL must overlap shorelines up to the edge of all land areas as defined in the Land-Water Mask.

That requires an intact set of water tile "Hydro" polygons with all vertices assigned to 0 Meters AMSL, including where they abut Land areas of Nauru.

Otherwise, with water tiles at 0 Meters AMSL outside shorelines, FSX run time rendering of terrain "fall-off" may be unpredictable / uncontrollable.

[END_EDIT]


I plan some further work with your existing project data set to see if I might discover any other pertinent issues.

Then I shall attempt to detail a work-flow for making a sloped flatten "strip" of terrain to transition Nauru from land to water in the " Breakers" zone.

GaryGB