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FSXA Questions About QGIS

Congratulations on achieving creation of the updated FLX2420 with all non-KBHM objects deleted. ;)


Good news ...the KBHM Water Vectors project was able to be selected and compiled to BGL on my SBuilderX installation. :)

All I did was load the project, turn off the background map of MSVE imagery, zoom out to select all vectors, and compile; no errors.

NOTE: Assuming one's total quantity of CVX objects in the workspace is compatible with processing by SBuilderX, one must Select all of them in oder to successfully compile a BGL, as IIUC SBuilderX attempts to ensure all content intended for each SDK compiler is grouped together in a single output work set.

Outlying objects anywhere within a project extent, regardless of whether they are visible at the current zoom level of the workspace, which are not selected in a work session that is submitted for BGL compilation ...may cause the task to not be processed fully to completion, and a compilation error may be thrown in the GUI.


Thus, KBHM Water Vectors original working project files being edited already on your end should not require replacement at this time.


I attached a ZIP of compiled BGLs for KBHM Water Vectors, and an exclude of all default water polys to allow inspection of edited ones.


You are off to a good start with this aspect of making a set of CVX vectors that are displayable independent of PR aerial imagery. :scratchch


It is important to remember to always first assign a Project name, save the Project to a *.SBP, and Export a *.SBX ...to files with that name.

Otherwise, when you compile, you will get generic 'CVX_Project' file names that are not sufficiently specific / descriptive to the file set.

Sooner or later, the multitude of proliferating files will be a nightmare to deal with if we are not abundantly clear with file naming habits.


You may wish to align CVX HL (Hydro Line = HLX) and HP (Hydro Polygon = HPX) vertices with IRL according to MSVE imagery locally as you proceed through the full project extent.

That will allow you to make continuous progress toward completion of these steps in your project without looping back to finish tasks,.


Also, you may wish to assign local water body Altitudes that match the terrain mesh to the KBHM HL and HP Polygon vertices.

Altitude is assigned to HL / HP vertex groups per water body Poly-line / Polygon (in each QMID subsection if divided by quad edge lines).


There 'may' be a work saver feature in QGIS to add Altitude to vertices of Poly-line / Polygon vertices (I use this in Global Mapper). :idea:

You may wish to research this to save considerable time, as I am not certain we can make CVX-type HL / HP vertices "terrain mesh-clinging" via a SDK Altitude 'fallback' variable such as we have in legacy LWM vector objects by using -9999 as an assigned value.

https://www.google.com/search?q=QGI...wLjG4B5IBwgcFMi0xLjHIBw0&sclient=gws-wiz-serp


Verify via KBHM HL / HP CVX vectors superimposed over LIDAR terrain mesh BGL in SDK TMFViewer to display Altitude value (Meters).

In SDK TMFViewer:

1.) Load KBHM Water Vectors

2.) Load KBHM custom photo-real aerial imagery

3.) Load LIDAR DTM terrain mesh

4.) TMFViewer Menu > View > Overlay Transparency... > Set slider max Left at Max Transparent

Move mouse cursor over CVX Poly-lines / Polygons etc. to read values for IRL Altitude in Meters AMSL.


PS: I use GIS software to convert a copy of my BMP imagery and TXT Geo-referencing output by SBuilderX tiledownloader, into a GeoTIFF in EPSG:4326 projection as an alternate data source file set.

Then I use GeoTIFF-to-INF to generate the INF file for that aerial imagery.

Next, I edit the GeoTIFF according to Luis Feliz-Tirado's tutorials for Masks.

When creating source data for larger Geographic extents of terrain coverage, depending on the zoom level of available source imagery, and the target output resolution zoom level, I may need to sub-divide ('sub-sample') the imagery data into multiple smaller file size work sets in order for them to be compatible for use with SBuilderX and SDK Resample

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/resources/geotiff-to-inf.119/

https://www.google.com/search?q=www...1uAeSEsIHBzAuOS42LjHIBys&sclient=gws-wiz-serp


If you use GeoTIFFs as source files, technically your INF can be even less complex; but it is best to retain GeoTIFF-to-INF's extra info.

That way if a MASK file ever loses its Geo-referencing in a processing step, we have the required info in the INF file for reference.


BTW: AFAIK, FractionBits is not used with Resample 'imagery type' INF files.


FYI: I am preparing for travel later today, and may be away from my FS computers until some time Monday. :cool:

GaryGB
 

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Good news ...the KBHM Water Vectors project was able to be selected and compiled to BGL on my SBuilderX installation. :)

All I did was load the project, turn off the background map of MSVE imagery, zoom out to select all vectors, and compile; no errors.

The only thing I did differently is that I only selected 2 polygons I've edited rather than selecting everything. When I selected all the vectors, it now compiles. Why does it not compile when I just make a selection? I was beginning to wonder if I may have something wrong in the INI file.

It is important to remember to always first assign a Project name, save the Project to a *.SBP, and Export a *.SBP ...to files with that name.
Otherwise, when you compile, you will get generic 'CVX_Project' file names that are not sufficiently specific / descriptive to the file set.

Sooner or later, the multitude of proliferating files will be a nightmare to deal with if we are not abundantly clear with file naming habits.

Okay. I do get into a habit of not creating a Project name. I also need to remember to save my project with the same file name. I've always thought that when a project was created, it saves that project with the same file name.

You may wish to align HL and HP vertices with IRL according to MSVE imagery locally as you proceed through the full project extent.

What is HL and HP?

Also, you may wish to assign local water body Altitudes that match the terrain mesh to the KBHM HL and HP Polygon vertices.

Yes, I will. I've learned that Flattens and Hydro polygons must have an altitude assigned. When I compiled my water file, I realized that I never assigned an altitude and it made a deep hole, 291 meters or 644 feet into the ground.

Verify via KBHM HL / HP CVX vectors superimposed over LIDAR terrain mesh BGL in SDK TMFViewer to display Altitude value (Meters).

In SDK TMFViewer:

1.) Load KBHM Water Vectors

2.) Load KBHM custom photo-real aerial imagery

3.) Load LIDAR DTM terrain mesh

4.) TMFViewer Menu > View > Overlay Transparency... > Set slider max Left at Max Transparent

Move mouse cursor over CVX Poly-lines / Polygons etc. to read values for IRL Altitude in Meters AMSL.

Okay, I'll do that.

PS: I use GeoTIFF-to-INF to generate INF files for aerial imagery; then I edit them according to Luis Feliz-Tirado's tutorials for Masks.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/resources/geotiff-to-inf.119/

https://www.google.com/search?q=www...1uAeSEsIHBzAuOS42LjHIBys&sclient=gws-wiz-serp


If you use GeoTIFFs as source files, technically your INF can be even less complex; but it is best to retain GeoTIFF-to-INF's extra info.

That way if a MASK file ever loses its Geo-referencing in a processing step, we have the required info in the INF file for reference.

Okay. Images in SbuilderX are always in .bmp format. When you do projects like this, what do you do? Convert the bmp files to a tiff format before exporting it?

BTW: AFAIK, FractionBits is not used with Resample 'imagery type' INF files.

I didn't think so but I noticed it in your INF file. If I remember correctly, FractionBits are used to fill in missing altitude data, such as elevation data of a mountain.

FYI: I am preparing for travel later today, and may be away from my FS computers until some time Monday.

Okay.

Ken.
 
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Hi Gary,

I've Verified all of the vectors, water vectors, photo image, LIDAR, in TMFViewer and everything displays and indicates Altitude values in meters when I move the mouse in TmfViewer. I have the water and shoreline vectors completed. I've been trying to work on Village Creek, which is actually tagged as a Stream rather than water. The water works fine but in the original default .shp file, it is tagged Stream Lines Perennial and not Hydro Lake Perennial. I've changed it from a poly to a line vector, as indicated in the original default file, and selected Stream Lines Perennial in the Properties, but it just simply will not align and work correctly, and some of the land class was also showing through. I've tried for days to fix this but I just changed everything back the way it was. I'll attach a zip below. You've mentioned something about researching adding altiudes to vertices using a drape tool in QGIS. I've looked over the link you've posted and it appears that I have the tools. When I tried to input a DEM and click Run, it keeps saying that it can't find the file. So apparently, I'm either using the wrong file type or the wrong format. Anyway, I'm ready to move forward. The zipped file is below if you want to look over my Stream Project for Village Creak. It just would not align or work correctly. Oh, by the way, I did happen to come across a plugin called Terrain Profile, which is neat.

Ken.
 

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I shall try to find some time to look at this in greater detail tomorrow, probably later in the day.

The CVX Vector Hydro Poly-Lines and Polygons we are working with are defined in Terrain.Cfg as terrain mesh-clinging.

So, for now, we need not be concerned about assigning Altitudes, and should focus on alignment with aerial imagery and terrain mesh.

FSX_KBHM_HLX+HPX_2420_Edited_Are_Terrain_Mesh_Clinging-1.jpg


Village Creek as an Appended CVX Vector Stream Poly-line converted to a Hydro Polygon in SBuilderX will have vertices to be moved.

That will no longer represent the Polygon as a line of a constant width when vertices are moved to bottom edges of "streambeds".


I would recommend that you begin converting the Stream Poly-lines to Hydro Polygons, and move their vertices into local "streambeds".


You should assign a transparency of 64 to Streams converted into Hydro Polygons, and Smooth them to 10 Meters max. between points.

That way it will be quicker to simply drag the selected points into alignment with edges of "streambeds".



SBuilderX Menu > Help > {Search} Tab > query string: Smooth > click [List Topics] button > click all listed items to view all hits

Note especially SBuilderX' Help section: Working with Points, Lines and Polygons > Smooth


SBuilderX Menu > Help > {Search} Tab > query string: Transparency > click [List Topics] button > click all listed items to view all hits

Note especially SBuilderX' Help section: Context-sensitive Menus > Line Tool > Transparency


SBuilderX Menu > Help > {Search} Tab > query string: Insert > click [List Topics] button > click all listed items to view all hits

Note especially SBuilderX' Help section: Working with Points, Lines and Polygons > Holding I - D - B and clicking > Insert



After vertices are aligned to the "streambeds", you may wish to assign a local altitude so the water surface appears level to local terrain.


BTW: There may be a way to make a modified version of the Stream texture which displays Hydro attributes in the water area of its image.

While conceptually it is possible, I will have to see if this is feasible to do, and if so, whether it adversely impacts performance.


In that case we would be placing a CVX Vector "meta object" which would likely become a custom Terrain..Cfg entry.

More on this tomorrow as time permits.

GaryGB
 
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I shall try to find some time to look at this in greater detail tomorrow, probably later in the day.

The CVX Vector Hydro Poly-Lines and Polygons we are working with are defined in Terrain.Cfg as terrain mesh-clinging.

So, for now, we need not be concerned about assigning Altitudes, and should focus on alignment with aerial imagery and terrain mesh.

I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for but in QGIS, if it's not already opened, go to the top menu and select Processing > Toolbox. Processing Toolbox opens. In Processing Toolbox, double click Vector Geometry > scroll down and select Drape(set Z value from raster). Vector Geometry box opens. It's here where I don't know what to put in the field boxes.


View attachment 97853

Village Creek as an Appended CVX Vector Stream Poly-line converted to a Hydro Polygon in SBuilderX will have vertices to be moved.

That will no longer represent the Polygon as a line of a constant width when vertices are moved to bottom edges of "streambeds".


I would recommend that you begin converting the Stream Poly-lines to Hydro Polygons, and move their vertices into local "streambeds".

That's what I did at first but I've happened to notice that in the Stream was a poly line and had not been converted to a Hydro Poly in the appended file. I noticed in your image that it shows both water and streams. But I have it back to polygon now.


You should assign a transparency of 64 to Streams converted into Hydro Polygons, and Smooth them to 10 Meters max. between points.

That way it will be quicker to simply drag the selected points into alignment with edges of "streambeds".

Okay, I'll try that.

Ken.
 
I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for but in QGIS, if it's not already opened, go to the top menu and select Processing > Toolbox. Processing Toolbox opens. In Processing Toolbox, double click Vector Geometry > scroll down and select Drape(set Z value from raster). Vector Geometry box opens. It's here where I don't know what to put in the field boxes.

The CVX Vector Hydro Poly-Lines and Polygons we are working with are (already) defined in Terrain.Cfg as terrain mesh-clinging.

So, for now, we need not attempt to assign Altitudes in QGIS, and should focus on alignment with aerial imagery and terrain mesh.

Thus, I am not working parallel to any work-flow you may be performing with QGIS, nor am I doing so in Global Mapper ...at this time.


I shall check back later to see how your CVX Vector object alignment with aerial imagery and terrain mesh is proceeding. ;)

GaryGB
 
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Hi Gary,

I believe I have the water and stream projects the way I want it. Before I go farther, I did noticed a few weeks ago that there is a HPX, which is the water Polys, which uses Polygon tool, an HLX, which are the water Shorelines, which uses the Line tool, and the STX, which are Streams, which uses Lines tool. I've converted the lines to a poly, aligned them to the photo real map, and use the Smooth button. The thing that I don't like about using the smooth button is that it moves my vertices after I've aligned them. It does that every time and that's why I've stopped using it. I had to always go back and realign them again. After converting the lines to a polygon, aligned all the vertices, compiled, and placed the bgl in FSX, it looks okay but it just doesn't look like a stream or a creek. Here's the image below:


KBHM_Water_Project.jpg


This is the HPX2420 Project. The water looks fine but it doesn't look like a creek. The other problem is that the width is way too wide. It's at least over 150 feet wide if not 200 fett. The actual width is between 25 to 30 feet. This is not going to be a problem since I'll be using a photo real image that will correct this. If I did not use a photo real image, I assume that I would have to bring those vertices much closer together. If I use the Stream alone, it looks more like a creek and the width is just about right:


KBHM_Stream_only.jpg


You'll probably noticed that the stream doesn't actually follow the path of the creek and is very wavy. So, I think it would look much better to include both the water and stream. Here's a screenshot of both the HPX and STX bgls:


KBHM_Water_Stream_Project.jpg


But the water is way too wide. If I include the photo real image, it looks like this:


KBHM_Project_With_Photo_Real.jpg


This look much better. Anyway, I'm done with the water, shorelines, and stream projects and I hope it was okay to separtate these bgl files. The link to the zipped files are below. I'll be waiting for further instructions:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/luvvo2amezo0cfn/KBHM+Water+and+Stream+Project.zip/file


Ken.
 
Just a quick initial reply:

All CVX Vector vertices for HP Polygons (whether or not converted from HL Lines) ...must be moved to edges of streambeds (just select-and-drag).

FSX_KBHM_HLX+HPX_2420_When_Edited_Require_Moving_Vertices_To_Edges_Of_Streambeds-1.jpg


I'll reply to other content in your latter post later today.

GaryGB
 
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Just to clarify:

Certainly one may align the single Poly-Line vertices with the "center" of the water body when starting / working with an original HLX Stream object.

But, CVX HPX Polygons will have 4 poly-lines that make up the borders for each Polygon segment after converted from HLX Poly-Lines / Streams.

One drags Polygon vertices on each side parallel to the axis of a water body into alignment with edges of that water body ...as seen in aerial imagery.

That is a lot of work; this is why I suggested only doing this for the areas directly adjacent to KBHM which have custom terrain mesh / imagery.

GaryGB
 
Just to clarify:

Certainly one may align the single Poly-Line vertices with the "center" of the water body when starting / working with an original HLX Stream object.

But, CVX HPX Polygons will have 4 poly-lines that make up the borders for each Polygon segment after converted from HLX Poly-Lines / Streams.

One drags Polygon vertices on each side parallel to the axis of a water body into alignment with edges of that water body ...as seen in aerial imagery.

I understand. The polygon vertices are on each side of the creek with the creek being in the middle of the polygon.

That is a lot of work; this is why I suggested only doing this for the areas directly adjacent to KBHM which have custom terrain mesh / imagery

Yes, that was my same suggestion.

Ken.
 
Just to clarify further: the preceding image above, and the following image below, are derived from loading your attached KBHM Water Project.SBP.

FSX_KBHM_HLX+HPX_2420_When_Edited_Require_Moving_Vertices_To_Edges_Of_Streambeds-2.jpg


The area circled in Yellow shows what was meant when I stated:

"One drags Polygon vertices on each side parallel to the axis of a water body into alignment with edges of that water body ...as seen in aerial imagery."

Since the preceding image above shows a much wider HPX Polygon derived from the converted HLX Poly-Line, it is still at the assigned Stream width.

One must still manually drag derived HPX Polygon vertices after converted, into alignment with edges of that water body ...as seen in aerial imagery.

The resulting HPX water Polygons will therefore be rendered much less wide at run time in FSX.

GaryGB
 
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Just to clarify further: the preceding image above, and the following image below, are derived from loading your attached KBHM Water Project.SBP.

View attachment 97897

The area circled in Yellow shows what was meant when I stated:

"One drags Polygon vertices on each side parallel to the axis of a water body into alignment with edges of that water body ...as seen in aerial imagery."

Since the preceding image above shows a much wider HPX Polygon derived from the converted HLX Poly-Line, it is still at the assigned Stream width.

One must still manually drag derived HPX Polygon vertices after converted, into alignment with edges of that water body ...as seen in aerial imagery.

The resulting HPX water Polygons will therefore be rendered much less wide at run time in FSX.

I see what you mean. I was planning on doing just that. I could be wrong but it seems that I've heard that the width in SBuilderX does not effect the width in flight simulator and the width is defined in the Terrain.CFG. I probably missed understood. I'll do that now and attach the project file when I've completed it. I'll just do the areas that are close by the airport boundary like you said.

Ken.
 
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Hi Ken:

I have inspected your SBuilderX SBP Project file in FSX, and I see you are making good progress.

I also inspected the default KBHM in both MSFS 2020 and 2024 to see how Asobo made their versions.


How they dealt with blending KBHM's AB Flatten Polygon into the surrounding terrain was exemplary, and merits further consideration here later.


MSFS is based on PR aerial imagery with a minimum of annotation to show hydro attributes over underlying water in the PR, but still looks OK.

If it were my scenery project, I would utilize more 'visible' Hydro attributes over underlying water in the PR as seen IRL at flight Altitudes / Angles.

But overall, a predominant IRL realism is achieved due to the balance of color fidelity with ground and object shadows under sky illumination.

With FSX andP3D, texture sets have limited color fidelity, ground and object shadows, sky illumination that are all not adequately comparable to IRL,


It is for that reason I recommend making a fully realistic set of CVX Vectors that can be used separate from custom PR aerial imagery.

And in fact, we may need those CVX Vectors to save manual labor when creating Masks as source files for making custom PR aerial imagery.

Otherwise one must essentially re-create the equivalent of the CVX Vector Poly-Lines and Polygons for Masks using Pixels in a graphics program.


As you have seen, there can be quite a lot of tedious and detailed work required to make truly realistic FS scenery, and it can test one's patience.

I believe that at least for your KBHM area, you should continue to fine tune alignment of size and position of all CVX Vectors in SBuilderX over PR.

Even higher fidelity CVX Vectors of Ultimate Terrain are "aliased", and now look too jagged compared to IRL, so one may edit UTX objects, too.


The next steps involving other CVX Vector types aside from Hydro objects may be implemented by use of SBuilderX' "Smooth" feature.

But first, I recommend adding the missing shoreline objects for the HPL Poly-Lines converted to HPX Polygons via Copy - Paste - Edit GUID.


In Polygon Tool Mode, one selects the Polygon borders of HPX Polygons, Copies, then Pastes those objects immediately into the exact place of origin.

Then one ensures the 'Copy' is selected, and one re-assigns the Polygon as a Poly-Line via:


SBuilderX Menu > Help > {Search} Tab > query string: Make Line > click [List Topics] button > click all listed items to view all hits

Note especially SBuilderX' Help section: Working with Points, Lines and Polygons > Make Line



SBuilderX Menu > Help > {Search} Tab > query string: Shoreline > click [List Topics] button > click all listed items to view all hits

Note especially SBuilderX' Help section: Working with Points, Lines and Polygons > scroll to find "Shoreline"

"You can make Polygons from Lines and Lines from Polygons. This can be useful in an handful of situations. For example you have a lake and you want to make a shoreline for the lake. The shoreline could be made as a Line generated from the Polygon. To achieve this, you have the button "Make Line" in the Polygon property window and the button "Make Poly" in the Line property window."


One then selects the Poly-Line > Properties > re-assign the Poly-Line GUID to the desired Shoreline GUID (with no "Wave Controller).

Chris Britton (aka "Rotornut44") describes the procedure for this here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/how-to-make-shorelines.442624/post-797253

"the easiest way to go about adding a shoreline is to right-click on any line of the poly and select "Make Line." Then click on the line tool (on the toolbar), right-click the line you just made, select "properties" and then assign a texture to it from the list. Under the General tab of the properties menu, you can add some width to the line to make it stand out in SBX. This will not affect the width in the simulator, just in SBX.

However, before you do the above, I would recommend you open the SBuilderX.ini file, navigate to [Lines] and ensure the line below is set to True.


MakeClosedLineFromPoly=True


This will ensure that both ends of your line touch."

GaryGB
 
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As you have seen, there can be quite a lot of tedious and detailed work required to make truly realistic FS scenery, and it can test one's patience.

Yes, you got that right.


Even higher fidelity CVX Vectors of Ultimate Terrain are "aliased", and now look too jagged compared to IRL, so one may edit UTX objects, too.

I don't understand exactly when you mean by looking too jagged and how UTX has to do with jagged lines or images. As I understand, UTX are utilities, such as power lines. I've Append the UTX2420 and there are no UTX lines drawn around the airport.

The next steps involving other CVX Vector types aside from Hydro objects may be implemented by use of SBuilderX' "Smooth" feature.

I like the way the Smooth feature smooths out the curves but why it is that every time I use it, it moves some of the vertices out of alignment with the photo real image? That's what I don't like about it and I have to go back and re-aligned them.


But first, I recommend adding the missing shoreline objects for the HPL Poly-Lines converted to HPX Polygons

Do you mean where it did not completely fill around and left an empty line? If so, I don't know why it did that. If not, I've already included the shorelines with my water project. Does it show the shorelines in the water project I've sent you? I may have sent you the one prior to adding the shorelines but I think I've sent the one that already includes the shorelines. Let me know. Also be aware that I have the Widths set to 10 meters, so you might need to set it to 50. The one thing I need to fix is to move the vertices of my airport background closer the road so it doesn't leave a gap and the defautl terrain shows through.

In Polygon Tool Mode, one selects the Polygon borders of HPX Polygons, Copies, then Pastes those objects immediately into the exact place of origin.

Then one ensures the 'Copy' is selected, and one re-assigns the Polygon as a Poly-Line via:

I haven't used the copy and past method because I wasn't sure if I do it correctly. I'll read the Help and give it a try.

"You can make Polygons from Lines and Lines from Polygons. This can be useful in an handful of situations. For example you have a lake and you want to make a shoreline for the lake. The shoreline could be made as a Line generated from the Polygon. To achieve this, you have the button "Make Line" in the Polygon property window and the button "Make Poly" in the Line property window."

One then selects the Poly-Line > Properties > re-assign the Poly-Line GUID to the desired Shoreline GUID (with no "Wave Controller).

Chris Britton (aka "Rotornut44") describes the procedure for this here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/how-to-make-shorelines.442624/post-797253

"the easiest way to go about adding a shoreline is to right-click on any line of the poly and select "Make Line." Then click on the line tool (on the toolbar), right-click the line you just made, select "properties" and then assign a texture to it from the list. Under the General tab of the properties menu, you can add some width to the line to make it stand out in SBX. This will not affect the width in the simulator, just in SBX.

That is the procedure I used from Rotonut44's video. That's where I got the information.


However, before you do the above, I would recommend you open the SBuilderX.ini file, navigate to [Lines] and ensure the line below is set to True.

MakeClosedLineFromPoly=True

This will ensure that both ends of your line touch."

I've got it set to MakeClosedLineFromPoly=True.


Ken.
 
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