.TIF files

[Roel]

Hey guys,

I'm a newby to the whole scenerydesign thing and I want to start with it. I wanted to start with some photoreal terrain and I found some very nice 30cm/px aerial imagery. but they are in .TIF format without any coordinates. I think I have the coordinates in a separate PDF, but exporting them to SbuilderX is not working out the way I want. Because when I put in the coordinates, nothing happens and the image stays at it's original place and is way too large.

So my question is: is there a way to get these aerial images into FSX through SbuilderX (or another program for that matter) and make a nice scenery out of it? I think I should mention that SbuilderX tends to crash quite a bit when importing the .TIFs

Some PC specs (in case that it matters)
i7 4770k @4.6gHz
16GB 2133 RAM
EVGA GTX780 3GB

 

[edphipps]

You can convert your .tif images into a photoreal bgl using resample.exe. The how to is under Terrain and Scenery, The Resample Tool in the FSX SDK. This is not a simple process but you can do it. The first caveat is that resample won't "eat" a .tif file larger than 2gb. So if your .tif files are bigger then that, you will have to split them up. Also you will have to know what the coordinates of the northwest corner or the center of each of your .tif files is, but that probably is in the pdfs. You also need to know what projection your image files are because they need to be projected using wgs84 before you can process them with resample. This too is probably included in the pdfs. There is software available to help resolve any issues. Search the forum for additional information. Lastly, there are developers here that can help you with questions along the way.

Ed

 

[Roel]

Thanks for the reply Ed, I should've mentioned that the images came from USGS and the images are approx 95mb each. The PDF that accompanies every tile has two sets of coordinates:

Bounding Coordinates: 18
WEST LONGITUDE = - 73.53731621 º W
NORTH LATITUDE =42.75265755 º N
EAST LONGITUDE = - 71.98963666 º W
SOUTH LATITUDE =42.01072890 º N

And

OrthoImagery QA/QC Report
Bounding Coordinates: 19
WEST LONGITUDE = - 72.01443111 º W
NORTH LATITUDE =42.73624323 º N
EAST LONGITUDE = - 69.95618796 º W
SOUTH LATITUDE =41.22685584 º N

I'm not sure which one to use though or if I can use them at all...

(In case you were wondering, the coordinates are from Martha's Vineyard)

 

[edphipps]

Can you post the PDF file so that I can look at the whole file. That will help me help you.

Ed

 

[pinkjr]

ok man, I'll give you a free trick .....

use Sbuilder Map function and find the general area of the picture you have, use the resolution you think will work best for you. Then compile it...
Now go to your work folder and open the exported photo image and overlay, yes, overlay your nice tiff file over it. Use transparency settings to make sure your image is fitted properly over the Sbuilder photo image. When happy, flatten it and save it, same name and format as original Sbuilder image.
Next, edit the masks to only show your original tiff picture (mask the aprt you don't need).........reopen your Sbuilder project and re-compile.

Was that not easy?

David

 

[Roel]

Can you post the PDF file so that I can look at the whole file. That will help me help you.

Ed

I have uploaded a PDF here: https://mega.nz/#!CRomDApI!KhFmyv_oyknACqHZhpiCEv5Ybh8Ghy4sgQGW_Y4mMTg

I have 100 tiles, and all of them have a PDF file in the same format, but with different coordinates of course.

Also, I found 4 other files in a separate folder I wasn't aware of at first. This folder is called 'shapefiles' and contains:
1 .DBF file
1 .PRJ file
1 .SHP file
1 .SHX file

Google wasn't very useful so maybe you guys know if these files are important.

Was that not easy?

David

Thanks, but I wish it was that easy. Because Sbuilder crashes 9 out of 10 times I try to import a file...

 

[pinkjr]

Ok, I think you have to address the crashing issue first. Are you saying that when you try to load an image from google or yahoo map servers, the program freezes?

Please clarify.

 

[edphipps]

Ok, decide first if you want to get SbuilderX working and use it's photoreal ability. I haven't used it but I assume that it would be easier since you have 100 tiles. That has to be a very large area you are trying to create a photoreal background for. To get that working that may be the best way to go.

Ed

 

[GaryGB]

Hello:

Just a few comments to clarify some things.


Your source files are GeoTIFFs which are a type of TIFF file which already has been Geo-rectified.

The GeoTIFFs are in a "projection" different than that required for use by FS SDK Resample, and must be "re-projected".

SBuilderX version 3.13 32-bit has a 2-GB limit of Virtual User Address Space (USERVAS) for its 32-bit task session in Windows

SBuilderX version 3.14 64-bit has a 4 GB limit of Virtual User Address Space (USERVAS) for its 64-bit task session in Windows, and should be able to import all 100 GeoTIFF 95-MB files into the project work-space.


NOTE: Because of the number of tiles (100) at 95 MB each, you would likely have to utilize a custom-edited multi-source INF file with FS SDK Resample to assemble that many tiles into several 2GB-maximum-size photo-real aerial imagery BGLs for display in FS.

[EDITED]

IIRC, the SBuilderX import process for GeoTIFFs automatically re-projects (...only if needed) the aerial imagery from the particular cited UTM / NAD83 projection listed in the above linked metadata "ma_state_wide_final.pdf" for the overall data set area from which you downloaded source files:

Projection: UTM Zone: 18 &19
Datum: Nad83 Planar: Meter
Image Info: GeoTiff Radiometry: 4 band RBG,IR 32 bit
Pixel Size: 0.3 Meter

...into the Spherical Web Tile Server Mercator type projection used for display in the same SBuilderX 'downloaded tile' work-space, when you:

SBuilderX Menu > File > Add Map > From Disk


NOTE: When this aerial imagery tile is viewed in SBuilderX via:

SBuilderX Menu > File > Add Map > From Disk

...the SBuilderX import process for GeoTIFFs apparently initially reads / retains the internal calibration of the GeoTIFF if it is already in a format compatible with display as a 'web tile server' type of projection.

Thus, it seems SBuilderX 'may' only automatically re-project the aerial imagery .into the Geographic / WGS / Arc Degrees type projection when a final group of displayed aerial imagery tiles in the SBuilderX work-space is 'selected', and that composited mosaic of aerial imagery tiles added as a 'Map' from disk, is submitted by SBuilderX along with a INF file for compilation into a photo-real scenery BGL by FS SDK Resample via:

SBuilderX Menu > File > BGL Compile...

[END_EDIT]


FYI: Although it is likely the extra "shape" files cited above are merely Metadata-related reference info for the area of interest:

Also, I found 4 other files in a separate folder I wasn't aware of at first. This folder is called 'shapefiles' and contains:
1 *.DBF file
1 *.PRJ file
1 *.SHP file
1 *.SHX file

...to determine what they are for sure, the SHP can be "Appended" in a blank SBuilderX project file to examine the data via:

SBuilderX Menu > File > Append > ESRI SHP...


The *.PRJ file is not required by SBuilderX (it can be used by some GIS utilities such as Global Mapper ...which was used to prepare the Aerial imagery data set you downloaded).


Hope this helps with the learning process !

GaryGB

 

[Roel]

Thanks for the replies guys!

When importing the .TIF files into SBX an error pops up saying that the pictures need calibration to work properly. When ignored, SBX places the image on the default location (Lisbon, Portugal) in a totally wrong scale (way too big). Inserting the coordinates doesn't seem to do anything, because when I head over to the area where they should've been, nothing is there.

I will try everything Gary mentioned tomorrow.

Again, thanks for helping me out. I really appreciate it!

 

[GaryGB]

Thanks for the replies guys!

When importing the .TIF files into SBX an error pops up saying that the pictures need calibration to work properly. When ignored, SBX places the image on the default location (Lisbon, Portugal) in a totally wrong scale (way too big). Inserting the coordinates doesn't seem to do anything, because when I head over to the area where they should've been, nothing is there.

I will try everything Gary mentioned tomorrow.

Again, thanks for helping me out. I really appreciate it!

Hello again:

Possibly the Geo-referencing info for the aerial imagery image files was lost and/or over-written during editing / saving in a graphics application ?


FYI: While is generally true that GeoTiff files by definition may have "all" required info for Geo-referencing inside the (specially formatted) *.TIF file itself, they are often purposefully distributed with ex: *.TFW "world" files and *.PRJ "projection" files ...for use in some GIS-type applications.

IMHO these associated *.TFW "world" files and *.PRJ "projection" files should 'always' be kept in the same folder with the same 'original' GeoTiff to which they pertain ...in the event they may be needed for use with certain GIS and/or FS development utilities.


IMHO, it is a good idea to keep backups of all original source files before / during / after any conversion and editing.

Then, working with copies of the originals, one must back up the geo-referencing info contained in the Geo-TIFF and its accompanying files using an appropriate GIS utility before editing the aerial imagery within it using a graphics editor ex: GIMP, or the geo-referencing info (and other metadata) may be corrupted and/or removed ...when the edits are saved back into the Geo-TIFF by the graphics editor.

There are numerous threads regarding this process here at FSDeveloper which you may wish to review; IMHO using Google's search with multiple word query strings may find such threads fairly quickly, ex:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/strange-output-coordinates-after-resample.432724/



Remembering that if one wishes to maintain the Geo-referencing info which IIUC is inside the Geo-TIFF *.TIF file as well as in its associated *.TFW file after editing, one should first export a backup copy of that Geo-referencing info with GIS utility:

https://www.google.com/#q=fsdeveloper GaryGB geoTIFF Geo-TIFF world file


This Geo-referencing info must be restored to the Geo-TIFF and associated *.TFW world file after editing if the Geo-TIFF(s) are intended to be used with the FS SDK features allowing internal reading of such Geo-referencing info when processing / compiling scenery content.

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/photoscenery-how-much-overlap.425814/


NOTE: If you have not re-sized the number of Rows and/or Columns in the aerial imagery image files during editing in a graphics application, you should be able to write out a new backup of the Geo-referencing info for each of those original Geo-TIFF source files, and then restore that info to the edited copies of those files.



PS: Remember to edit the pertinent lines in the SBuilderx.Ini file to set the center of the Map background at the Geographic center of your own project area rather than the default one in Portugal via:

SBuilderX Menu > Edit > Preferences > click [INI File] button < file opens in Windows NotePad >

[Main]
LonIniCenter=-9.136076 <-- Your project's central Longitude goes here
LatIniCenter= 38.7813203 <-- Your project's central Latitude goes here
DecimalDegrees=True
MeasuringMeters=True
BGLFolder=C:\MyPrograms\SBuilderX314\Scenery <-- Your project's compiled BGL 'active' \Scenery folder path goes here
OriginalTerrainCFG=False


1.) When configuration of your SBuilderX project is completed via editing "SBuilderx.ini" in Windows NotePad:

.....a.) In Windows NotePad Menu > File > Save As... > "Save as type" field, set to "All Files (*.*)" (do not click OK yet)

.....b.) In NotePad Menu > File > Save As... > "Save In" field, browse to [SBuilderX install path] folder; double-click to select it


2.) Back in NotePad Menu > File > Save As... browse dialog, click "OK"

.....a.) When prompted to over-write Sbuilderx.ini, click "YES" to save your edits to that file.


3.) Exit and re-start SBuilderX (...or the above changes will not yet take effect)


Hope this helps a bit more !

GaryGB

 

[Roel]

Ok, so I tried importing the .TIF files while the shapefiles are in the same folder. When I open them in SBX, nothing seems to happen at all. I don't get an error, but I also don't see it showing up. Also, I found out the coordinates in the PDF's are useless as they all point to the center of Massachusetts... I'm beginning to doubt if I can use these images, a real bummer imho...

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Roel:

Please help us to help you better by providing some more detailed information.


Do you plan to utilize Arno's ScenProc utility to semi-automatically scan and place autogen onto your custom photo-real aerial imagery textures ?

If so, ScenProc reportedly works more accurately if you utilize the 4-Band aerial imagery of Massachusetts, rather than the 3-Band (the 4th Band is the Near-InfraRed useful for better detection of vegetation).


The PDF you linked to above pertains to the 4-Band aerial imagery.

Which aerial imagery of Massachusetts did you actually download, 3-Band ...or 4-Band ?

What are some of the original GeoTIFF file names before any editing done in a graphics application ?

Do you have any direct URL links to this imagery ?


Would you consider first a small project immediately surrounding the KMVY airport made using either downloaded imagery via SBuilderX from a tile server, or using imported (original un-edited) GeoTIFFS ?

GaryGB

 

[Roel]

Hey Gary,

I never heard of ScenProc before, so I wan't planning on using it. But it might be a good idea if I have the correct files anyway.
Btw, when I import the .TIF file into SBX I only see a whitish image, I guess that's the 4th band of the image.

I haven't done anything with the images other than unzipping them, so I would be surprised if they got messed up by me somehow.

I downloaded the tiles by using the EarthExplorer tool from USGS http://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/

I can upload a few tiles for you if you want, so you can check them out yourself.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Roel:

From a quick look at the State of Massachusetts GIS site, it looks like you and others working in this area have a very nicely expanded new set of GIS resources for Massachusetts to work with now, so I'll see what is available through the USGS National download offerings.

I'll login Saturday via one of my USGS portal accounts to see what is available, then will follow up here with some info and perhaps a few brief questions; then we should be able to help your project get more fully underway (it is rather late here in the USA).

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Roel:

I have checked on the available aerial imagery for your project area, and you have a number of options for aerial imagery from public domain sources such as USGS and from other web tile servers, depending on what your plans are for the project itself.


If this project is for personal use only, then you may have more options for aerial imagery from other web tile servers.

If this project is for commercial purposes, then you may have fewer options for unrestricted use of aerial imagery from public domain sources such as USGS, and you may otherwise need to secure your source files from commercial licensing entities.


It would seem that you may have already downloaded 4-band aerial imagery from the USGS Earth Explorer portal, and that such GeoTiff files in their current 4-band format are not fully compatible for use as a "map loaded from disk" in SBuilderX.

The original 4-band GeoTIFF files must be copied, and then those copies converted from 4-band to 3–band for use in SBuilderX (and/or directly with FS SDK Resample and a custom-edited multi-source INF file) ...as discussed in this thread:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/semi-transparent-geotiffs.432428/



CAVEAT: Those who attempt differing GeoTIFF inter-conversion work-flows may wish to review this thread for a few more important considerations:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/download-images-with-infrared-4th-channel.16911/


The original 4-band GeoTIFF files may be used directly without modification with ScenProc to semi-automatically annotate autogen onto your photo real aerial imagery.



On a practical basis, you may wish to explore the use of SBuilderX to compare the visual quality of the aerial imagery from several available tile servers and compare them with the visual quality of the 30 cm / 1 foot "high resolution aerial imagery" you downloaded from the USGS.

Because the USGS and various states in the USA only make available the lossy-compressed JPEG 2000 / Mr.SID format versions of the original GeoTIFFs supplied by the entities which provided that aerial imagery, you may find that the effective visual quality is so severely degraded with JPEG artifacts of aliasing, halos, etc. that it is IMHO, impractical to use.

So, if your goal is to create a high-resolution set of ground textures in the immediate facility of the airport where your user aircraft will be flying at lower altitudes and/or taxiing on the ground, you may find other sources than the USGS imagery to be more satisfactory.

Outside the immediate vicinity of the airport, however, you may find that the USGS imagery is satisfactory for use to create ground textures to be viewed in FS at in-flight altitudes.

I hope this helps to clarify your options and the workflow which is required for utilizing this particular set of aerial imagery data files in SBuilderX.

If you have any additional questions on how to proceed (after declaring whether this project is for strictly personal or for commercial purposes), feel free to inquire, and some of us here will then be better informed of your needs, and may be able to provide further assistance.

GaryGB

 

[Roel]

Thanks again Gary!

I started this project as a way to learn a lot of different things about scenery creation. First of course being the photoreal scenery, watermasking, ground mesh, autogen, maybe add different seasons and of course everything that has to be done at an airport. If it turns out well, of course I want to share it with the community, being freeware or payware. So I kept all options open when I created my account at USGS to download the tiles. This means I checked the boxes for commercial use etc. It's not intended from the beginning to be payware, as of course it would be my first project. But I like to keep every option open.

I did a check with SBX, but I found that the imagery's resolution wasn't as high as the USGS' tiles.

About those links, I have no single clue on how to make a batch file that would work with the images I have. I'm a pilot, not a computerspecialist I tried to copy the whole commandline Dick wrote for Bill, and changed the image name in it. But surprise surprise, nothing happened except for this:

I did download OSGEO4W to accompany the batch file. But I'm totally in the dark about it all...

 

[edphipps]

Roel, those messages mean that Windows couldn't find the Gdal programs you asked it to run. The easiest way is to run the commands from the osgeo4w shell. If you installed osgeo4w correctly you should have an icon on your desktop that says "OSGeo4W Shell". Double click on it and try running your commands from there.
Ed

 

[Roel]

All right! Thanks Ed, it worked like a charm!

I'm finally able to import the TIF's into SBX (be it very slowly) since I have to manually enter the coordinates every time. Although it's not entirely the same as SBX: (left is USGS, right is SBX via Google)

Or could the problem be the difference in tides?

 

[GaryGB]

All right! Thanks Ed, it worked like a charm!

I'm finally able to import the TIF's into SBX (be it very slowly) since I have to manually enter the coordinates every time.

Hi Roel:

You may wish to review the work-flow recommended by Luis Feliz-Tirado for use of SBuilderX with GeoTIFFs via "Add Map From Disk":

"SBuilder X will always automatically show the message: 'You may need to calibrate this bitmap.'

You do not have to calibrate the image if it is a GeoTIFF, so do not do it."

http://www.ptsim.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6825


"GIS files with their associated world files, as well as GeoTIFF files will generally either be easier to calibrate or already contain calibration information. Any Map obtained through the SBuilderX image server function will be calibrated automatically.

The various buttons on this window are described below:

- GeoTiff - it makes a copy of the map in Geotiff format.


So, to conclude, please simply try adding your file and don't bother to calibrate."

http://www.ptsim.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6606

Although it's not entirely the same as SBX: (left is USGS, right is SBX via Google)

Or could the problem be the difference in tides?

It seems that in your screen shots posted immediately above, the time of day and year are different, as well as perhaps the tidal flow in that area relative to the apparently re-engineered shorelines.

However, of greater concern is the difference in size of identical landmarks, suggesting that Geo-referencing may be wrong for the larger image.

I suggest using the Luis Feliz-Tirado work-flow above to see if the compared images end up with matching sizes in identical landmarks.



BTW: As an additional method to compare what Geo-referencing SBuilderX has derived from a sample tile of aerial imagery when you "Add from disk" (and the INF is created during FS SDK Resample compilation of a BGL), you may wish to use Ollyau's "GeoTIFF to INF" utility to write out a separate INF:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/resources/geotiff-to-inf.119/


NOTE: Be aware that FS SDK Resample limits BGL file output size to no more than 2GB per BGL.

Also, be aware of the Resample processing limits for total aggregate size of aerial imagery source files per Resample task session with a multi-source INF file, as that must not exceed the available Windows User Virtual Address Space (aka "USERVA") ...which varies by Windows version (32-bit versus 64-bit) and each Windows user individual account profile configuration for Windows CMD mode itself.

GaryGB