FSX tiling/scaling

[robystar]

Hi,

Something that is annoying is the fact that when you set the size for a texture in GSU, it automatically changes the size of the same textures of other parts of the object. Unless there is a way to do it I haven't found yet?
In MCX there is no way to resize the textures of the individual parts once they have been assigned in GSU.
In GSU I therefore have to assign a different texture for each part of the object that I want to have a different texture size for and later I change the texture in MCX to the one I want.
Now, suppose I make a glass texture in GSU. I use different translucent textures so that I can size them differently for each windowpane for instance.
Once in MCX I exchange the temporary GSU texture by one custom made glass dds texture that is now sized the way I want it for individual surfaces.
But I then come across the problem that as soon as I have given the same dds texture to different parts of the object, the textures are all merged and I can no longer differentiate the textures any further.
In the case of this glass texture, I would like for instance a night texture to certain glass textures but not all of them and that is no longer possible as all surfaces with the same diffuse texture are selected/highlighted now.
Would there be a possibility to change that or even include a possibility in MCX to size/scale the texture of individual surface parts of an object?
But perhaps there is an easier way out I haven't thought of?

 

[arno]

Hi,

Adding the ability to change the texture mapping is not something I have in mind for ModelConverterX now. That would almost make it a modelling tool .

Would it not work if you create a new material in SketchUp with the same texture but a different scale?

If you use the drawcall minimizer ModelConverterX should also be able to detect and remove your double textures.

 

[robystar]

Hi Arno,

Re: "That would almost make it a modelling tool ."
True, I did not think of that. Horrible if that would ever happen. I must be out of my mind. I dare not even think of it. So dreadfully sorry for thinking of such an awful prospect .
Re: "create a new material in SketchUp with the same texture but a different scale"
Well that is exactly the problem. I have not figured out how to do that if possible at all. The minute you change the scale, all surfaces with this same texture change their texture size as well.
Re: "able to detect and remove your double textures"
It is not a matter of double textures but rather the lack of.
Once you have filled in the dds textures you want to have instead of the provisional jpeg textures from GSU, MCX does not distinguish anymore between surfaces with the same texture but with different texture sizes.

 

[tgibson]

Scaling the same texture (using the same material) differently on each surface is easy in GSU. Check out my tutorial for details:

http://www.calclassic.com/sketchup_tutorial.htm

Hope this helps,

 

[robystar]

Thanks Tom.
Checked your tutorial once more.
Could not find it though, only for imported textures. Nevertheless, I did find a way in GSU to scale same textures on various parts differently.
But that solves only a part of what annoyed me.
The other thing is that once you have used the material editor, MCX does not allow any longer to distinguish between surfaces with the same texture but with different sizes and that is a pity.

 

[robystar]

Hi again,
I continued experimenting with this tiling business and although probably (but not surely) I did maybe something wrong myself, I include a screenshot from a dae file rendered in MCX and as it looks in FSX after exporting it.
I think the screenshot explains it.

 

[Pyscen]

Hello Roby,...

I just did some testing on your problem/annoyances, but maybe I not sure I understand completely either what they are. I was able to scale a texture (1 texture mind you) through GSUon 2 sides and the top. I then exported it to MCX by a dae file, then changed the texture to a dds file... exported it to a mdl. If you notice its the same dds file but the scaling is different on 2 sides and the same on top... the other 2 sides are different but yet the same texture. Look at the pictures:

So, maybe I'm not fully understanding what your annoyance is:

What I did to scale the texture was use the Right click from the mouse and the slide down to the texture tab, and then the Position tab....

 

[robystar]

Morning Doug,

One of the most annoying things is that sometimes it is so hard to explain in a few words what you want to convey.
So, let me give you another example.
In GSU, I texture two sides of the cube with the same texture but each with a different size and direction (as per the screenshot above) using indeed the position tab in GSU.
The GSU texture is only a temporary texture I use for scaling and tiling the surfaces. I already have another dds texture made and placed in the texture folder of the static object library (like the one in the cube in the back of the screenshot).
I import the cube in MCX and exchange the two jpeg texture 'whitebrick' entries for the one whitebrick dds texture, close the material editor and export the mdl.
But, oh,oh, I forgot for example that I wanted to have a night texture for one of those two whitebrick textures, so I import the mdl again and open the material editor but only to find that there is only one whitebrick texture for the two sides of the cube. There is no way to add an _LM texture to one of the two sides.
Moreover, the one whitebrick texture that I rotated somewhat shows up in FSX but not rotated although it does in MCX.
The way described in Tom's tutorial, i.e. importing your texture in GSU, might help but then you would need a different texture name for each differently tiled texture.
I hope I explained better this time?

 

[Pyscen]

Morning Roby,...

OK... so your telling me you want different walls to have a different _lm, not all are to have the same _lm? If that is the case,... then a different texture name would be needed within GSU... no other way to do it. As per your example, I added a _lm to my test_box and yes, all the sides are lighted the same (though the sizing, using the position tab in GSU, are different still). So I would have to create a different texture for the same or just use a different texture name for the same. But those texture names or the different textures would have to start in GSU. Sometimes in this case its best to work backwards (create the dds first, using the texture editor in MCX or wherever).


Or are you talking about a few of the sides to have a totally different direction... instead of horizontal you want a few sides to run vertically, like this:

But you still want different _lm on the different sides, unfortunately you will still need to create a different texture or different texture name for it.

 

[robystar]

Hi Doug,

Seems I managed to get it explained, because what you say is correct.
Now, everything I said would be possible without having to rename textures or having to make various equal textures with just different names if MCX would not automatically merge the original textures (GSU does not merge the textures as you can see on the screenshots).
The first shot is from the dae file, the second one is the MCX made mdl.
Also note (sorry, can only show two sides of the cube) that MCX does take the texture size into account but not the 45º rotation, apparently.

 

[arno]

The other thing is that once you have used the material editor, MCX does not allow any longer to distinguish between surfaces with the same texture but with different sizes and that is a pity.

In FSX MDL files parts are combined per drawcall (material), ModelConverterX works the same. The fact that there are different texture mappings does not make it a different material. That's why they are all in one part in ModelConverterX.

 

[arno]

Now, everything I said would be possible without having to rename textures or having to make various equal textures with just different names if MCX would not automatically merge the original textures (GSU does not merge the textures as you can see on the screenshots).
The first shot is from the dae file, the second one is the MCX made mdl.
Also note (sorry, can only show two sides of the cube) that MCX does take the texture size into account but not the 45º rotation, apparently.

ModelConverterX does nothing with your textures, it just takes the texture mapping as they are defined. If you loose your rotation I think you are using a different texture, as it would be kept if the rotation was done in the mapping.

I think you need to understand the difference between texture mapping and the material itself. The mapping determines how the texture is placed on the polygon, while the material just tells it which texture to use.

 

[robystar]

Hi Arno,

Oh, I surely agree that I have to understand the difference between FSX materials and texture mapping. Only, I do not, not really.
What I understand is this:
I define a texture, by which I understand, you mean a certain material. I have this texture in FSX.
Now, in GSU, I give a GSU Jpeg texture a certain size and a certain rotation. (Mind you, I am going to substitute this jpeg by this FSX dds texture in MCX).
Do you mean that all the characteristics of the GSU texture remain intact (size and rotation) if I substitute this texture by the FSX DDS texture made beforehand?
If that is the case, then I must have made a mistake somewhere.
But it strikes me as odd that the size of the texture is indeed taken over by the FSX DDS texture, but not the rotation.
It also strikes me that, when I import the dae file into MCX, the preview shows the rotation, but once exported and made into an mdl the rotation is there no longer.
But I will try it once more, for sure, because I do not want you to have to search (once more) for inexistent imperfections in MCX.
Nevertheless, I do not understand why MCX merges similar textures automatically while GSU does not. It would come in handy if MCX would not do so unless you would want it to (like for instance being able to add a night texture or whatever to some surfaces with the same texture and not to others with the same texture.).
I am just trying to point out the drawbacks I am experiencing , half or more of which are probably due to my doing something wrong but maybe some of which you are unaware of and could be remedied easily.
Let us hope I have made a mistake somewhere.
Update: I repeated the operation and can confirm that MCX does not honor the rotation attributed to the texture in GSU.

 

[arno]

Hi Roby,

Can you send my your object with the problem? I would be interesting to see what happens.

The FSX MDL format will combine all parts with the same texture, there is no way to keep two parts with the same texture. Just having a different rotation of the texture does not make it a different material. For performance it is better to combine them as well.

 

[robystar]

Dae file sent.
I am also curious about your findings.
Nightie, nighty

 

[tgibson]

I'm not sure what you mean by this statement:

The way described in Tom's tutorial, i.e. importing your texture in GSU, might help but then you would need a different texture name for each differently tiled texture.

Tiling is a specific mapping technique that calls for multiple copies of a given texture to be applied to a surface like mosaic tiles. For this to work properly the texture mapping must extend from one edge of the texture all the way to the other edge of the texture (in the direction(s) of the tiling). However, using the technique in the tutorial, each tiled polygon can have its own tiling format, using only a single texture and material. I have buildings with over 25 different texture mappings, each using the same texture.

You mention giving a texture two different LM textures - AFAIK this is not possible.

Hope this helps,

 

[scott967]

I don't know if this is the problem, but when you import an image for use as a material in GSU, you have to be careful how you apply the material to a specific face. IIUC if you just position and scale the material, when exporting your original image will be returned as texture01.jpg etc. If you do any rotations or distortions while mapping, a new texture will be created when exporting with different dimensions than the original image, making it worthless for use in the sim. When positioning I only use the "fixed pin" mode. At least that's what I understand so far, but I've kind of put off getting real experience at the texturing part of modeling.

scott s.
.

 

[robystar]

Hi,

Thanks all.
I think I now have the following answers:
- giving one texture an LM and use the same one without LM for another surface of the object is not possible? (But I do have an object where I use one diffuse texture plus LM texture for one surface and the same diffuse texture plus a different LM texture for another surface. MCX does not merge the textures in that case).
- If I rotate/distort a texture using the position tab, I am creating a new texture and should therefore give it an other name?
- If I want to tile the same textures individually, I should use the fixed pin method. But once converted in the MCX material editor I will have only one texture entry left but the mapping will have been preserved for each individually tiled surface?
-Using Tom's method of his tutorial I can also import a texture in GSU, scale/tile it, apply it with different scaling to different surfaces without having to change the name of the texture. There will be only one texture in the mdl?
- Once a texture has been 'merged' in the material editor, there is no way to individually change surface textures any longer except by going back to the dae or skp file?

Would that be correct?

PS What I meant, Tom, is that I thought you would need to make copies of your texture and give them another name in MCX if, for instance you would want to have one imported texture with e.g. a night texture and for another surface the same one one without night texture.

 

[arno]

Hi Rob,

Yes, what you write here seems correct. Using the position texture options with fixed pins will make sure that you are using only one texture file in the end and that helps for the performance in FSX.

ModelConverterX is supposed to be a converter (at the moment), so if you want to modify the model afterwards you normally have to go back to SketchUp and do the conversion again. Only some minor tweaks can be done in ModelConverterX directly.

I just send you some example files by email as well.

 

[robystar]

Yes, thank you Arno.

Everything is clear now (at least for the moment).