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v1.40.7 - Arrow Keys

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germany
Thank you very much for the latest version of ADE! It is great fun working with it and a perfect tool for getting a completly different insight to the world of FSX as from virtual FL340.

Probably a minor issue and for me the only disadvantage coming with v1.40 so far is that the arrow keys do not behave as they used to.

They now can have an impact on the tool bar. I' ve never realized that in the version I was working with before (think is was 1.37).

If this feature could be set back I' d really appreciate it!

Many thanks again!
 
Thank you very much for the latest version of ADE! It is great fun working with it and a perfect tool for getting a completly different insight to the world of FSX as from virtual FL340.

Probably a minor issue and for me the only disadvantage coming with v1.40 so far is that the arrow keys do not behave as they used to.

They now can have an impact on the tool bar. I' ve never realized that in the version I was working with before (think is was 1.37).

If this feature could be set back I' d really appreciate it!

Many thanks again!

Can you give me a bit more information please? An example we can replicate? It may well be that we changed the behavior by accident but I do not recall any code changes that might cause it
 
Can you give me a bit more information please? An example we can replicate? It may well be that we changed the behavior by accident but I do not recall any code changes that might cause it

Sure! Let' s say that I want to get a taxi link between 2 RWYs. I click on the button 'Add Taxi Link' first to set a Taxi Point somewhere on the black centerline (Taxipath Type Runway) of the one RWY. But I forgot to position the airport layout so that I can start the drawing. In 1.37 I then pressed the necessary arrow key to move the scenery into the perfect position. If I do the same in 1.40 I will find the scenery in the same position as before but the pre-selected 'Add Taxi Link' mode will have changed to 'Add Closed Link' instead.

To move the scenery I have to click into the scenery before which naturally creates a Taxi Point if I am in the 'Add Closed Link' mode. Pressing the 'Undo Actions' button results in the disengagement of the arrow keys again ...

To complete the story - if I want to move the page I have to click on 'Pointer' mode, click into the scenery, then move it with the arrow keys and finally click on 'Add Taxi Link' again.

Quite a complex procedure for a tiny bit of action ...

Don' t worry - I am still 'in love' with ADE!

btw.: very prompt reply - sort of supersonic ...
 
OK I will look in to it. However if you have a three button mouse holding down the center button and dragging will move the display. The wheel is also used to zoom if you have one
 
Jan

I am trying to replicate the problem.

If I click to add a taxiway to the runway and continue to hold down the left mouse button I can move anywhere with the arrow keys to reposition the grid. Once I am on the taxiway that was originally out of sight I release the mouse button.

A new taxiway is now drawn.

As long as the left mouse button is held down after you click the mouse on the runway link line, the arrow keys cannot change anything in the drop down menus.
 
I think I am doing the same thing but I can't replicate it at the moment. I will keep trying
 
Jan

I am trying to replicate the problem.

If I click to add a taxiway to the runway and continue to hold down the left mouse button I can move anywhere with the arrow keys to reposition the grid. Once I am on the taxiway that was originally out of sight I release the mouse button.

A new taxiway is now drawn.

As long as the left mouse button is held down after you click the mouse on the runway link line, the arrow keys cannot change anything in the drop down menus.

The significant change is that - as far as I can judge - the arrow keys never had an impact on the Tool Bar, now they have.

To replicate what I said just click on 'Add Taxi Link' once and immediately after that press any of the arrow keys. You will realize that this will change the pre-selection within the Tool Bar but not the position of the display.

Probably I' ll have to forget the arrow keys and learn pressing down the mouse wheel instead.
 
I can replicate that difference. If the toolbar has focus as described above then in 140 it tabs between options, This did not happen in 1.37. Why it has changed I do not know since it is not part of the deliberate changes. However I have added it to the fix list for the next version
 
I can replicate that difference. If the toolbar has focus as described above then in 140 it tabs between options, This did not happen in 1.37. Why it has changed I do not know since it is not part of the deliberate changes. However I have added it to the fix list for the next version

Thumbs up! Thank you, Jon!
 
Can you give me a bit more information please? An example we can replicate? It may well be that we changed the behavior by accident but I do not recall any code changes that might cause it

Jon,...

What happening with me.. is if you add apron taxiways and then say click on the arrow (pointer)... then use the arrow keys to move your position on the screen it moves along the functions across the icon choices: such as "add normal taxi point", "add hold short taxi point",... etc. Now if have had click on the pointer and then the screen then the use the arrow keys to move the position... it works fine.

just a heads up
 
Jon,...

What happening with me.. is if you add apron taxiways and then say click on the arrow (pointer)... then use the arrow keys to move your position on the screen it moves along the functions across the icon choices: such as "add normal taxi point", "add hold short taxi point",... etc. Now if have had click on the pointer and then the screen then the use the arrow keys to move the position... it works fine.

just a heads up

That is the problem. The keys should not be acted on by the toolbar but they are - I need to find out what I changed that caused this behavior.
 
Thanks for the report Lance. This problem was reported first last night, We have verified it today (along with your further confirmation) and hope to have the fix in a day or so. There is a small update due that deals with the other main bug reported so far. The Ctrl-Key combination are working here (I just tested Ctrl-S and Ctrl-C) but I will look into that further of course.
 
snip----

Found the runway heading edit box has gone to six decimal drgrees or one one millionth precision. I just need to make it chnage from 88.1 to 88.2. Who calculates to 88.123456?

Sorry to say I have uninstalled 1.40 and gone back to 1.37. Those bugs I have learned. I can't or do not have the patience to learn a new set.

Lance

FS not only uses the 6th decimal but carry's out to the 14th decimal. The 6th place is there because the compiler will round out values.

If you can't place 6 decimals in the runway heading you can't get the Localizer symbol set properly at the end of the runway. You also can't get the Start Location set for center line of runway in slew mode. If the Start Location cannot set at center line of runway you can't get the FAF set 5Nm's away on runway center line and Localizer line. If you can't get the FAF on center line of the runway you can't set the missed approach direction (in approach mode) that the ATC Engine uses (heading degree of the FAF and center line of runway vs the lesser degree heading angle within a 180 degree radius of the planes tail position). The missed approach code for turn direction is the lesser radius of the planes tail and not the nose of the plane.

If the runway heading and the Start Location is off by a heading of .001 then how far off is the "IF" heading the AI Plane works with on an extended final that exceeds 40 - 60Nm's from the runway. It can easily exceed .2 which is the spec ADE uses for the Airplanes tail offset of a lesser degree in a 0 - 180 radius vs the 180 - 360 degree radius.

Some of Reggie's extensive research and a simalar post shows

Runways may display 88.1 but it will be read by FS as anywhere from 87.5xxxxxxxxxxxxx to 88.5xxxxxxxxxxxxx. The rounding bug was discovered back in September 2003 when using AFCAD and was never fixed. It might be incorrect to call it a bug per se because the math is correct. The problem is that FS does not round to the closes whole number, but always rounds down to the next lower whole number.

If you compile and decompile a bgl many times the drift becomes very severe. This is one of the reasons ADE works with a .ade project file and not directly with the bgl. Compile and decompile a AFCAD bgl many times in design work and watch the runway drift away from the fillets.
 
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As someone who realizes they should have taken more math classes in skool... :rolleyes:

Looking at the chart for KSNA it says the runway heading for 19R is 194.7. The approach chart for the ILS into 19R says a heading of 194. So right off I have a discrepancy. If I want a perfect airport, what number do I use to place 19R, because it could be anything from 194.65000000000001 to 194.74999999999999. And with the FAF being 6.5nm away how in the world do I calculate what any offset may be if I'm off by 1/1,000,000?

TBH, this sounds like a bug that's been in ADE from the beginning. And because of the bug, all the airports that have been designed prior to 1.40 need to be thrown away? Should we be posting at the AI forums to discontinue the use of ADE before v.1.40?

I need to go check Amazon and see if the have Basic Math for Dummies in stock. :mischievo

Your original post ask, Who calculates to 88.123456?

Found the runway heading edit box has gone to six decimal drgrees or one one millionth precision. I just need to make it chnage from 88.1 to 88.2. Who calculates to 88.123456?

My answer was FS calculates to the 14th place.

You cannot set the runway and the approach code heading the way FS has to read it with just the tenth position. Any rounding of the runway heading by the designer or the compiler changes the difference between the 2 headings listed below.

heading="70.4899978637695" (FS stock runway)
heading="70.4631576538086" (FS Stock Approach code ILS heading)

In the above example set the start location to the exact same runway heading (13th position). Set the plane up on the go to and slew back 20, 30 , 40, 60 Nm's and see where the Approach code ILS heading would position the plane vs your actual position. Change the runway heading to the tenth ( 70.3, 70.4, 70.5, or what ever you want) and see how much further away that tenth takes you in respect to the approach code ILS heading.


The actual heading bug is in ver 1.37 which we fixed in 1.40 by going from the tenth position to the .xxxxxx position. In Version 1.37 it is almost impossible to align the Start Location with the exact runway heading using the tenth position due to what happens in the BGLCompiler with all the other decimal positions FS uses.

We introduced the approach mode in Ver 1.40. The reason for the 6th decimal position is so the approach designer can set the missed approach turn for the AI/User Plane if the User elects NOT to use the published missed approach.

If you have no intentions of ever using the approach mode and don't care if the non-published missed approach is to the left or the right then set the runway True heading Base End to whatever you feel is correct (FS will set the recip based on magdec for KSNA) and ADE will handle the zero's.

Once you decide what runway heading you want to use to the (tenth position) then set the other related headings the same. At that point there is no guarantee’s what ATC will do with the non-published missed approach. The runway texture heading and center line carry an invisible alignment code that is not just the length of the runway but circles the entire globe (as per ACES).

Any kink in the FAF to the runway center line back to the "IF" leg Terminal_Waypoint vs the ILS Approach Code heading means we cannot set the non-published missed approach turn properly. I can understand that designers may not see the importance of at least 6 decimal places until they start adding approach code and working with the automated turn direction we introduced behind the scenes.

If the approach code heading for the ILS (non-weather related approach) is not the same as the runway heading + or - .2 (ADE spec) at 5 Nm's or 125 Nm's then ATC will not code the AI /User plane the way FS intended.

The runway heading is the key to all Approach code headings that get passed to the AI/User plane. If every runway heading in FS was only to the tenth position then we would leave it at that.

However in FS and ADE the tenth position is not the perfect runway heading (when there are 13 more places) so long as the FS world is populated with AI Planes.
 
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There is now a fix available that deals with the arrow problem. It is version 1.40.08 and should be available on the auto updater or from the download center
 
There is now a fix available that deals with the arrow problem. It is version 1.40.08 and should be available on the auto updater or from the download center

Thank you Jon. I just installed and tested the updated version. Everything works perfect now. Great job (and very fast)!
 
Thank you Jon. I just installed and tested the updated version. Everything works perfect now. Great job (and very fast)!

Thanks Jan - it is good to know that the 'beta testers' were telling the truth :D
 
That is the problem. The keys should not be acted on by the toolbar but they are - I need to find out what I changed that caused this behavior.

And oddly enough, of course I have to be the odd guy.. I LOVE that behavior...hehe many programs scroll through the options when you use the arrow keys...so for me, it is a natural occurrence. So if you happen to not find it, I for one, will not be heartbroken. hehe

- Greg
 
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