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FSX vabb crosswind

A

ani4may

Messages
37
Country
india
hello,
i have been working with an afcad for vabb for sometime now .
the airport uses 09/27 as primary and 14/32 as sec.
i want 14 and 27 ends to work for both landing and take off .
i used Jon's tutorial for help .
in that he mentions pri. runway must be at the end of the list :

14/32
09/27

if i start adding 7.8 to 89* i have to pass through 140* which is again a base end . this makes it look as if i were using the basic meathod .
in the e.g. by Spectropro 17/35 is primary and not very far away from the 180* mark after which we start using complementary values or conjugates .

how do i go about creating runways in my case ?

thank you .
 
You start at the bottom and go up

14/32 = 134.6
stop when you are within 7.8 of 134.6

etc.
etc.
11/29 = 105.4
10/28 = 97.6
09/27 = 89.8

Do Not use 14/32 twice. Skip that number and if needed go from 13 to 15 or use 10/28 L/C/R etc.
 
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Just remember, that when you hear ATIS calling all the runways, it is working.... then remember, that ATIS calls All the runways ALL the time...which seriously gets so annoying that you may consider ripping them all out of there. LOL

- Greg
 
SpectroPro said:
Just remember, that when you hear ATIS calling all the runways, it is working.... then remember, that ATIS calls All the runways ALL the time...which seriously gets so annoying that you may consider ripping them all out of there. LOL

- Greg
Click to expand...

The runways or ATIS or both ;)
 
thank you all for replying.
so does this mean both identity and heading of the runway are vital for recognition by the sim ?

1. so i will now continue on by adding 7.8 to 134.6
2. go on up to 180 .
3. begin using conjugates and add 7.8 till i get to 134.6

i will try out what i have typed and come back when there is a reply .

thank you all once again .
 
SpectroPro said:
Just remember, that when you hear ATIS calling all the runways, it is working.... then remember, that ATIS calls All the runways ALL the time...which seriously gets so annoying that you may consider ripping them all out of there. LOL

- Greg
Click to expand...

When airport is IMC you should not hear ATIS say the Xwinds for landing.
 
ani4may

as Jim Suggested the rwy's should look like this:

14/32 = 134.6
13/31 = 128.8
12/30 = 121.0
11R/29L = 113.2
11L/29R = 105.4
10/28 = 97.6
9/27 = 89.8

add your fake Xwind rwys first then drag 9/27 to the bottom,
once again as Jim said, number them what you like as long as they are not the same as the two airport rwy's and not forgetting to save when you're done
 
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glottis said:
ani4may

as Jim Suggested the rwy's should look like this:

14/32 = 134.6
13/31 = 128.8
12/30 = 121.0
11R/29L = 113.2
11L/29R = 105.4
10/28 = 97.6
9/27 = 89.8

add your fake Xwind rwys first then drag 9/27 to the bottom,
once again as Jim said, number them what you like as long as they are not the same as the two airport rwy's and not forgetting to save when you're done
Click to expand...
hello,
well what you are telling me is for the basic technique .
my objective is to link base 14 to reciprocal end 27 .
where 09/27 is primary .
thank you .
 
hello,
i tried once again .
i was successful in linking 14 and 27 ends .
the problem is both are used for takeoff but 27 is not being used for landing .
i skipped 14-32 as if it did not exist got to 180*.
flipped over to 0 and added 7.8 until i got to 134.
thank you.
 
hello,
i appreciate your help , but it isn't helping my cause .
i want 14 to work with 27 .
i was successful in activating these ends , but do not understand why fs does not use 27 for landing and uses it only for takeoff . 14 works perfectly with both landing and takeoff .
thank you .
 
ATC in FS is crap...nothing more to say about that.
It was one of the things I asked to be improved in FSX, and is one reason I still use FS9.

Had the same weird issue when closing 4L-22R at JFK for landing.
When I did that neither 4L-22R or 4R-22L was used at all no matter what wind direction.
 
hello ,
my runways are now working fine after working on them for more than two weeks ,day in and day out .
thank you for your cooperation .

this is what i did :

i followed the rule of not using real identities and using every other i wished for the fake ones .

the first rotation is from 89.8* which is the heading for my primary runway .

you keep adding 7.8 as if 14/32 never existed . just remember you cannot use 14/32 as an identity for your fake runway .
reach 180 that is to the last runway that is within the 7.8 range .

add 180 to that last runway and then add 7.8 to it . you will get something greater than 360* , in this instance 363.4 .

we know that a circle has only 360* and so 363.4 is equivalent to 3.4 .

keep adding 7.8 as if 09/27 never existed and get to 134.6 .

the runways get activated .

strangely the ATIS got disabled once the runways were activated . the marquee just stopped appearing .

thank you .
 
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Gazer75 said:
ATC in FS is crap...nothing more to say about that.
It was one of the things I asked to be improved in FSX, and is one reason I still use FS9.

Had the same weird issue when closing 4L-22R at JFK for landing.
When I did that neither 4L-22R or 4R-22L was used at all no matter what wind direction.
Click to expand...

There are many web sites that make comparisons of FS9 / FSX ATC and in some cases the posters do not have a good working knowledge of how MS coded certain areas of the simulator.

Rather then say ATC in FS is c*** there are many developers here that can explain the working code used by ATC and what it might take to get ATC to understand what you might want done. In certain cases you may not want to have runways closed or open independent of each other but ATC in FS also try's to use some basic real world logic.

Runways in FS2002 (FS8), FS2004 (FS9) and FSX at some airports work identical. That does not mean one version of ATC does it better then the other but MS leaves certain runway code the same on purpose.

Parallel runways in FS9 and FSX are paired into groups. In order to do this there is a lot of coded intelligence into the runway property's so FS can try and do the right things and not what the User might expect.

When you closed runway 04L/22R for landing then it forced 04R/22L as a single landing runway since the 2 parallels are grouped together. FS2002 uses what I call the 1 ft. longer runway rule for landing. This same rule for KJFK runway 4 and 22's also applies in both FS9 and FSX (there is no difference per FS2002).

When you closed Runway 04L/22R for landing then 04R/22L by default was forced to be the landing runway and FS sent the runway property through a formula in FS9 and FSX which looks like the following.

Score = 0
If runway length > 70% of longest runway at airport -> Score += 50
Score += tailwind or headwind (tailwind < 0 and headwind > 0)
If (unknown 'runway group' flag) Score += 10
Score -= crosswind <<<<<<<<------------------------------------ add 100 points if my CW technique is in use
If (runway landing==yes) -> Score += 100
If (runway takeoff==yes) -> Score += 100
calculated score for the runway gets multiplied by 10000

Any Jet type aircraft defined in the aircraft.air file uses a Empty Weight (EW) vs runway length that says

If no empty weights specified in the .cfg: returns 5000ft

Else:

value = ((empty_weight pounds - 10000) * 2000 / 90000 ) + 5000

if ( value > 7000 ) return 7000
if ( value < 5000 ) return 5000
else return value based on EW vs runway length

In User terms all the above formula's mean, when runway 04R/22L became a forced landing runway for all arrivals FS looked at the overall runways and recalculated to say the 13/31 runways are a better choice for takeoff and landing. This removed the use of both 04/22 runways from the total runway grouping. The 04/22 runways at KJFK are the secondary crosswind runways as defined by real world runway percent usage on a yearly basis that considers prevailing winds. The 13/31 runways are the primary usage runways per data compiled by the Airport Authority. FS also imposes this same set of compiled data when calculating active runway usage at many airports in the FS database.

I have no idea what your aircraft.cfg EW's are for all your AI Planes. Most AI FD developers do not know that these type weights have a big impact on runway selection when you the User try to force runway closures.

My EW settings in the aircraft.cfg are correct as per Reggie Fields and Martin Gossman's work here at FSdeveloper. Martin also has the owl's nest web site and utility for reworking develpers AI plane cfg files (also added into the ADE installer).

We here at Fsdeveloper would rather have users ask can something be done then then say ATC is c*** since this misleads many new comers to the ADE forum.

Both my FS9 and FSX KJFK use runway 04L for takeoff and a forced 04R for landing when winds are light and varaible as per the rules that MS applies to the EW, runway length and some additional coding left over from FS2002 (1 ft. rule).

FS9 4L Departure. All winds are light and varaible at 8 kts and a 043 wind heading.



FS9 4R Arrival



FSX 4L Departure



FSX 4R Arrival



My 4L/22R is closed for landing. My 4R/22L is not closed for anything since FS cannot calculate that runway as a departure runway based on Main Terminal position.
 
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hello,
what if the runway start is not to the end of a long runway and is closer to the centre . does the sim calculate the distance from the start point to the end of the runway or does it just stick to the original runway length?

another question is - are intersection departures possible ?

thank you.
 
ani4may

what if the runway start is not to the end of a long runway and is closer to the centre . does the sim calculate the distance from the start point to the end of the runway or does it just stick to the original runway length?
Click to expand...

Start Location and runway length have no relationship. Start Locations are used for the Go To Airport /runway and the end of a flight plan to a runway.

another question is - are intersection departures possible
Click to expand...

We have post on this forum that explain how to do that.
 
Sorry Jim, but that post didn't help me to much.

What I did get is that there is a scoring system for runways?
I don't see the connection and how to use it.

Also I understand that the empty weight of AI aircraft is used.
How do I use that and how do that relate to the scoring?
If EW is more than 5000 then 5000 what?
If EW is less than 7000 then 7000 what?
Those two statements seem to contradict each other.
If the formula returns 6000 then its both less than 7000 and more than 5000 :)

You mention some kind of rework of ai cfg. Where do I find this information? Search turned up nothing, but then I had no idea what to really search for so...

I am using WOAI packages without any modifications.

Guess my question is...what do I have to do to fix my JFK?

Unfortunately I almost failed math and that was over 15 years ago. I need to visualize things a lot, which is why geometry was the best part of math for me :) So when it comes down to numbers I need a lot of time.
 
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