vc symmetry

[noob24]

what is the best way to creat symmetry for objects that need to be mirrored on the other side of the vc.such as the b pillars for example. i have tried mirror and symmetry modifiers but i cant seem to get the mirror plane to align with the center of the the vc in world coordinate view. so the result is a cloned pillar but mirrored incorrectly along the origionals axis. how do i align mirror planes with world view to get accurate placement opposite side. or is there a better way of diong this?
thanks

 

[Heretic]

Center the pivot of object to be cloned, add "Mirror" modifier, choose the gizmo, move to x = 0 position, tick "clone", done.

I do that all the time (engines, wings, etc...) and it works perfectly.

 

[noob24]

do you mean center the pivot point to the object or to the center line of the vc?
im using 3dsmax
thanks

 

[lionheart]

I adjust the Gizmo to the center of the aircraft, then Edit/Clone, Mirror, then zoom in super far at the center line (Grid on) and slightly move it till its in place, then Attach, Vertices/Weld, and done..

With Gmax and Max, its best to create the VC from a full inner hull so that the windows lines seams will be 'perfectly' and seamlessly aligned. But we cant always do that.... argh..


A-pillars, on of the most difficult things to do 'smoothly and perfectly'.....



Bill

 

[noob24]

ive tried all these methods but i must be making a mistake here.

1. i highlight the pillar and re align its pivot using world view so that it is at the center of the aircraft/vc.

2.clone it then add a mirror modifier to that clone.

3.then select the mirror gizmo to move it.



but i end up with the cloned pillar in completely the wrong place.

no matter how i move the origionals pivot this seems to have no bearing on the mirror plane gizmo's orientation which is what counts.
i have then tried rotation the mirror plane gizmo manually so its in line with the vc center line but this is very innacurate and i may as well just position the cloned pillar by hand and eye so its in roughly the same position as the origional.

i dont know what im doing wrong here

 

[Chuck Jodry VJPL]

While exceptions abound the transform type in is another way to ensure the original parts pivot point is 0 0 0 , once the hierarchy dropdown is open and pivot selected with move active , typing 0 0 0 in the fields will place the original objects pivot dead center of the " World " , when you clone and mirror that part its geometry will be in precisely the opposite position,

As an aside ensure that all objects have a scale transform that reads
100 100 100 in the dope sheet, oversized bounding boxes will trash your mouse rectangles , and reset the mirrored parts transform after cloning so FS will shade it properly.

 

[noob24]

i am getting the objects pivot in to position this way no problembut then when i apply the miror it has no effect on the mirrors orientation for some reason

 

[Heretic]

do you mean center the pivot point to the object or to the center line of the vc?

Umm, either or. The only difference would be that you don't have to move the gizmo to the center line of the VC when mirror if the pivot point is there.

The mirror axis is also determined by the pivot point's or gizmo's rotation, so make sure that it's in an upright position when you want to mirror.

 

[noob24]

what ever i do the mirror center gizmo will not align with the pillars transform gizmo even when i can clearly see the pillars transform is aligned to world

i hope its possible to see what i mean here and the pillar clearly in the wrong place


i have experimented with the mirror tool from the main tool bar(which i know should not be used for fsx as it reverses the normals but it workes perfectly i can place my object precisely in 2 seconds. so why wont it work with the mirror modifier i just dont understand

 

[noob24]

to make it clearer what is happeneing ive just set up one object that i want to mirror in exactly the same position but mirrored on the other side of the grid and y axis

but its clear to see that the mirror gizmo has its own ideas and will not liine up with the objectx pivot /gizmo no matter what i do and the result is completely wrong.


the final image shows the correct placement of the object but i was only able to do it using the mirror tool from the main tool bar

 

[lionheart]

Ahh... Try this.

Go to Hierarchy/Scale/Reset Scale (RH control panel, 3rd tab in to the right, bottom of the list).

Next, go to tools (RH control panel, last tab on right, near the bottom), click Reset X-Form, and then right click in the screen and select Convert to Editable Mesh or Editable Poly (to collapse the stack and lock in the new X-Form).

Now, use the Mirror tool (from the tools flyout on the RH control panel) and note that it now more easily flips with its new reset X-form (gizmo axis alignment).



Bill

 

[noob24]

im using 3dsmax there is no tools fly out do you mean utilities? and if so there is no mirror tool in there. there is however a mirror tool on the main tool bar but i thought this was a no no for use with fsx models???

all the advise here has been to use the mirror modifier but this is what i cannot get to work. the mirror tool on the main menu tool bar at the top works fine for me but i cant use that right?

 

[hairyspin]

Your screenshots show the Mirror modifier's Gizmo is rotated to an oblique angle with the x, y and z axes. Have you tried rotating the Gizmo to be square with the axes? Use the Transform type-in box and enter 0 in the X, Y and Z fields (right-click on the Rotate button to produce the type-in box).

For goodness sake don't use the Mirror button!

 

[noob24]

ok thanks all for your help here i dont know what i did but now its working flawlessly and i cant even recreate it going wrong again just so i know what i was doing wrong. its gonna be another mystery that has taken me all afternoon and alot of help to solve


thanks

 

[noob24]

ok i have worked out that by reseting x form is the key to mirroring objects that are rotated away from world grid orientation lines and its all to do with the bounding box of the object. as soon as i reset x form the bounding box is automatically orientated to world coordinates. this is great for mirroring as the mirror gizmo seems to rely on the orientation of the bounding box. but this process seem irreversable. how do i reset the bounding box to fit the object as it did when it was created? i tried rotating the object back to verticle by eye then resetting x form but the bounding box did not return exactly to its origional fit. once the bounding box has been altered accurate scaling is no longer possible as scale uses the bounding box for orientation so you end up with a deformed object.


anyone got any ideas about this?

also if the object is part of the scene and cannot be moved then this option is not viable.

in my case its the a and b pillars in a vc. in order to mirror them i had to reset x form . this altered the bounding boxes and meant any scaling or adjustment of them whole or at a subobject level became distorted and difficult

the first image shows the rotated object bounding box as created.

2nd image shows mirrored object bofre x form reset

3rd image show mirrord object after x form reset and the bounding box has clearly re orientated to world coordinates rather than the objects the result is mirorring in world space coordinates now becomes possible but now the bounding box is permanantly altered and the object will distort if any further scaling or ajusting is done

as shown in final image

what is the solution to this?

 

[lionheart]

Before resetting X-Form, 'always' reset the Scale. Always.... You can ruin a part that way.

Then, when you get it properly mirrored, (not by the top toolbar Mirror thing), you can then readjust the Gizmo to the older angle You can do this easly by moving the gizmo over the object, go to wire frame mode, zoom in really far, and align the Gizmo over some of the mesh of the object, and that will get your angles back for scaling. Then, when you scale, use 'Local' setting.

Note, if you have made a part, saved, and then reset the X-Form, and it ruins the part, escape out of Max / Gmax without saving. Saves your part (if it was saved 'before' the X-Form reset).

Bill

 

[noob24]

thanks Bill i will experiment with that

 

[noob24]

there is just one thing, only one person in this thread mentioned resetting xform in order to get mirror working in world space. yet this seems to be the ONLY way to do it from what i can gather. am i barking up the wrong tree here with this whole bounding box thing ? or


have i missed a trick here or was this just assumed that i knew about this? is this the only way to do its as the only solution that i have made work but is only mentioned by one person here which i find confusing a little

 

[noob24]

Before resetting X-Form, 'always' reset the Scale. Always.... You can ruin a part that way.

Then, when you get it properly mirrored, (not by the top toolbar Mirror thing), you can then readjust the Gizmo to the older angle You can do this easly by moving the gizmo over the object, go to wire frame mode, zoom in really far, and align the Gizmo over some of the mesh of the object, and that will get your angles back for scaling. Then, when you scale, use 'Local' setting.

Note, if you have made a part, saved, and then reset the X-Form, and it ruins the part, escape out of Max / Gmax without saving. Saves your part (if it was saved 'before' the X-Form reset).

Bill

but re ajusting the gizmo will not return the bounding box to its origional shape so no matter how accurately you re adjust the gismo as it was before the mirror to the shape of the object it will not scale correctly as scale will depent on the orientation of the bounding box not the pivot gizmo as shown in this image which now has an object with a distorted bounding box as a result of the x form reset

 

[hairyspin]

the first image shows the rotated object bounding box as created.
2nd image shows mirrored object bofre x form reset

3rd image show mirrord object after x form reset and the bounding box has clearly re orientated to world coordinates rather than the objects...

No, the third image clearly says "2 objects selected". So two bounding boxes are shown. You're not looking at the immediate result of mirror and reset xform but a step or three further on.