• Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:

    • Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
    • Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
    • Questions about aircraft design can be posted in the Aircraft design forum
    • Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
    • Questions about terrain design can be posted in the FS2020 terrain design forum.
    • Questions about SimConnect can be posted in the SimConnect forum.

    Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.

    By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.

Vegetation exclusion

rhumbaflappy

Administrator
Staff member
Resource contributor
Messages
5,932
Country
us-wisconsin
I may be misunderstanding the problem. Grass is not seen as vegetation in the sim, so the density slider has no effect. In fact checking vegetation can work against you.
What you'd want to do would be to make an apron with perhaps concrete material, and set it's slider to 0.

Untitled.png
 

rhumbaflappy

Administrator
Staff member
Resource contributor
Messages
5,932
Country
us-wisconsin
A little copy'n'paste can make an apron from a polygon.
XML:
    <Polygon parentGroupID="1" groupIndex="3" altitude="1.90786933898926">
        <Attribute name="UniqueGUID" guid="{359C73E8-06BE-4FB2-ABCB-EC942F7761D0}" type="GUID" value="{FDF99788-C1AF-4EA7-A5FF-D9DCA1F0687A}"/>
        <Attribute name="FlattenFalloff" guid="{5548FDB5-2267-4328-8E6F-FD0A45ADEC8F}" type="FLOAT32" value="1.000000"/>
        <Attribute name="FlattenMode" guid="{065E9D4D-6984-4D2A-91FD-3C33C4F53B22}" type="UINT8" value="1"/>
        <Attribute name="Layer" guid="{9E2B4C3E-7D84-453F-9DCC-B6498FF46703}" type="UINT32" value="2"/>
        <Vertex lat="10.91003580841828" lon="114.08598799890096"/>
        <Vertex lat="10.91042554136929" lon="114.08594375175157"/>
        <Vertex lat="10.91018286680591" lon="114.08403465006145"/>
        <Vertex lat="10.90983428727931" lon="114.08406792856795"/>
    </Polygon>


    <Apron displayName="IslandGrassKill" parentGroupID="1" surface="{1F94370E-E0C7-4953-B3A2-DE44313DE070}" drawSurface="TRUE" drawDetail="TRUE" localUV="FALSE" stretchUV="FALSE" flipUV="FALSE" priority="0" tiling="25.000000" heading="0.000000" falloff="-1.000000" opacity="0" groundMerging="TRUE" excludeVegetationAround="TRUE" excludeVegetationInside="TRUE" isRectangle="FALSE">
        <Vertex lat="10.91003580841828" lon="114.08598799890096"/>
        <Vertex lat="10.91042554136929" lon="114.08594375175157"/>
        <Vertex lat="10.91018286680591" lon="114.08403465006145"/>
        <Vertex lat="10.90983428727931" lon="114.08406792856795"/>
    </Apron>
Paste the apron under the <Aprons> section.
 

=rk=

Resource contributor
Messages
4,450
Country
us-washington
I may be misunderstanding the problem. Grass is not seen as vegetation in the sim, so the density slider has no effect. In fact checking vegetation can work against you.
What you'd want to do would be to make an apron with perhaps concrete material, and set it's slider to 0.
Please refer to the image above. There is a runway number with grass all around it. Is it possible to place runway numbers, without a runway? Is not a transparent runway, the same as an apron?
Also there is this test I just ran. The only thing changed, is the "Transparent" check box. Previously for me, runways worked in the same way you describe aprons.

runway material.jpg
runway transparent.jpg


I looked through my older project versions, based on the theory that when ADE glitched the NDB, it also converted aprons that I had learned to use through trial and error, into polygons. This is not without precedent, because ADE also left out the light rows I'd made using DevMode. There are no aprons in any older projects, only a single xml closing tag </aprons>, which implies I'd used and discarded them.

Finally, the grass in these images is olive green, not vomit green and it suggests there are factors affecting this render which I have no access to. If the sim stays consistent with this most recent session, it seems like poly's as aprons would solve "everything," with apologies to the arborists.
 

=rk=

Resource contributor
Messages
4,450
Country
us-washington
Thank you for all the help. I've learned it works to apply a material to a polygon, set the opacity to zero and have the render show the underlying aerial, without the grass. I still see no way to convince the fluorescent green grass to match the aerial, as it sometimes does, but this works for now.

poly material.jpg
 
Messages
7,450
Country
us-illinois
Hi again:

Federico Pinotti (aka "mamu") has a tutorial on YouTube which shows how to create a Grass replacement Polygon via a Material 'close' in color / texture pattern, which can be further edited to match its color to that of underlying default MSFS MSVE (aka "BING") PR imagery:

[EDITED]

The segment on that method is at 22:40 elapsed time.

[END_EDIT]


GaryGB
 
Last edited:

=rk=

Resource contributor
Messages
4,450
Country
us-washington
Thank you, Federico is awesome. One thing I have found working with the default materials, is that they do not "fade," they are continuous, like a carpet. There are a few times the default grass has rendered "weak," it is spotty and faded. It is largest where the aerial image is darkest and it fades to nothing, where the aerial is bright, like bare sand.

grass.jpg


When it works like that, it is perfect and that is the render state I wish we could adjust to achieve.
 

rhumbaflappy

Administrator
Staff member
Resource contributor
Messages
5,932
Country
us-wisconsin
Here's a polygon that erases grass:
Untitled.png


I can drag the opacity and the grass is still gone. I can colorize it and the grass is still gone. Check out the different decals and other materials. The Bitmap Preview helps to give an idea of what you might get.
 
Messages
7,450
Country
us-illinois
Hi Dick:

IIUC, a special coding procedure is required to make the GRASS_DECAL01 Material type and GRASSGROUND05_ALBEDO.TIF.DDS Texture shown in your example above ...available to a Polygon Asset Group in ones custom Project ? :scratchch

If so, would you post some example code on how that appears in the XML for the (Airport) BGL ?

Thanks for sharing a 'worked example' of MSFS' options to modify Material attributes for Ground Textures (...and associated Annotation).

GaryGB
 

rhumbaflappy

Administrator
Staff member
Resource contributor
Messages
5,932
Country
us-wisconsin
What I see now is you can erase the grass, and you can delete the trees, but you cannot do it in the same polygon. I can erase the grass as in the above post. Then Duplicate the polygon and change the properties to set vegetation density to 0, and close the material out in the duplicate. (And, it is my habit to give polygons a priority of 1 or higher).
Attached is an example
 

Attachments

  • Mission-Field-Polygons.zip
    14.4 KB · Views: 70
Messages
7,450
Country
us-illinois
Thanks, Dick. :)

Apparently MSFS may have an equivalent of a "Terrain.Cfg" somewhere, and 'base' object types can be further modified via Materials, Materials further modified by Textures, and the result given a custom GUID / UuID that is saved in the XML for the Project Airport. o_O

Is this also possible to do in areas outside the ARP test radius of airports for modifying Terrain attributes in between airport areas ? :scratchch


Personally, I am trying to utilize ESRI SHP files and apply proper attributes for at least 'basic' types of Polygons directly in a SHP editor, rather than importing a SHP as a Polygon "place-holder" that requires manual assignment of MSFS attributes in the Properties dialog after the Polygon is selected in the Asset list of Scenery Editor.

Preferably, I'd like to be able to do this instead within SBuilderX and/or Global Mapper, but need to find MSFS' master list of GUIDs.

One concern is that, whether "imported" / loaded from a SHP in the \PackageSources\Data folder- or if created via Scenery Editor- Polygons lose their assigned custom name, and it is replaced by MSFS SDK's interpretation of the Polygon's 'internal' functionality. :banghead:

Is there a way to work around these issues (other than manual edits after-the-fact of a [Save Scenery] button click) ?

I hope we do not have to keep editing names in Polygon Properties or in the XML source code of a BGL to restore our custom names. :oops:

Thanks in advance for sharing additional insights on these (IMHO) related issues involving creation of Polygons with "modified" Materials.

GaryGB
 
Last edited:
Messages
7,450
Country
us-illinois
Last edited:
Messages
204
Country
us-texas
There are still issues with it, for instance there are various mountains in Utah that ignore my color correction poly, it's due to elevation "profile recognition" I guess.
It will color half the mountain and not the other, sometimes it works if you make the poly ridiculously big, but that's a major pain.
The tree polys are working slightly better, but still issues with that occasionally as well.
 
Messages
677
Country
ca-quebec
Hi !
Impossible for me to remove vegetation with polygons.
Vegetation slide bar doesn't change anything.
Any idea how to do ?
Is that a general bug or just on my pc ?
Thanks for any help.
I experienced this several months ago. An update of FS20, I don't know which one, fixed the problem. However, if I want to remove trees at Signal Hill (Cabot tower) a few remain. Unable to delete them.
 
Messages
1,681
Country
australia
I can tell you that the Vegetation Slider used to work at my project, to remove grass and now it does not.

I just found that out the 'hard way'.
I originally had my blender created 'pub' with a concrete plynth at the entrance and all was well. I added a polygon with 'bitumen texture' to my (MSFS) project and also a car park apron. Grass then appeared 'growing' in the concrete plynth. I tried a few different ways to exclude the grass and then gave up as nothing I tried worked.
Here's what I mean, So annoying BUT the grass did NOT appear until after I added the polygon with (asobo) 'bitumen texture' - could that be a clue I wonder.
 

Attachments

  • grass.jpg
    grass.jpg
    887.5 KB · Views: 39
Messages
859
Country
australia
I'm not certain yet as to whether Asobo intended for Grass to be excluded by Vegetation Exclusion Polygons.

AFAIK Grass is rendered as a function of local terrain mapped Material type / colors; it is a separate annotation routine from that of Trees.


This image is a Vegetation Exclude Polygon area in my Project that sets all sliders to (0) except Brightness at 1.0 (less=darker annotation):


msfs_grass_persists_over_default_msve_pr_with_vegetation_exclude_polygon-jpg.84354



Note that Grass persists like a deplorable "Grass Roots" rebellion by a Poaceaen, ubiquitous family of monocotyledons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poaceae


Allergenic Autogen Anomaly ?


< Zoysia ! >

(...Gesundheit.)


AFAIK, it is by design in the current SDK methods, that Grass is rendered where there is various shades of Green, and less so in "Dirt" areas.


IIRC, to exclude Grass, one must use these methods:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/issue-with-grass-not-the-smoking-kind.451405/post-874261

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+MSFS+Exclude+Grass+concrete


Notice the OSM Road is able to exclude the Grass even if superimposed over MSFS' default MSVE (aka "BING") photo-real imagery ground texture; notice as well that OSM Roads are "tinted" with the color of underlying MSFS default MSVE photo-real imagery ground textures:


msfs_grass_excluded_by_default_osm_road_over_pr_with_vegetation_exclude_polygon-jpg.84355


PS: Has anyone else noticed that when MS' servers choke during DevMode, in offline mode, land class type textures are applied to OSM roads ?

One might wonder if we can toggle the 'transparency' / 'Opacity' attribute so OSM roads have a proper road texture in online mode ? :scratchch

Regardless, IIUC, there should be no Grass popping up through OSM Roads anywhere in the MSFS world. :pushpin:

GaryGB

I took a similar approach working on my local airport, I created a polygon and assigned it as an asphalt surface and made it 100% transparent (i.e. 0% opaque). I had to clear grass off the grass runway.
 
Messages
1,681
Country
australia
I added a multi sided polygon and 'moulded' it around the concrete plynth of the entrance top the pub so that there would be some vegetation between the plynth and the asphalt. Maybe I should just have the asphalt polyon going under the plyth and then make sure that transparency is set to 100% (opaque). The grass was not growing through the concrete plynth until after I added the asphalt polygon - strange.
 
Top