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Approaches: Duplicate Navaid Name Problem

tgibson

tgibson

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Hi,

I am writing approaches for Miami (KMIA) for a 1962 airport. In that year KMIA had a VOR with ident MIA, and an NDB ident MIA. They are near each other, but not coincident. When I try to write an approach for the MIA NDB, the map in Approach Mode uses the MIA VOR instead as the start of the line draw. The VOR approach I create correctly uses the MIA VOR. Yet if I ignore the map view and create the NDB approach anyway, the airport compiles fine and the NDB approach displays correctly in the GPS - it is using the MIA NDB, not the VOR.

Can ADE also use the MIA NDB for its map draw?

I've attached the ad4 file.

Thanks,
 

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  • KMIA_1962.ad4
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Tom

When a NDB and VOR have the same Ident the approach will attach to the VOR. What FS will do in many cases is make a T_waypoint at the NDB location and use that for the line draw. Now you can have a line draw for the VOR and the NDB.
 
But the line draw in FS9 works fine. It's only the map in ADE that gets it wrong. I guess I can live with it...
 

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  • kmia_ade.jpg
    kmia_ade.jpg
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  • kmia_gps.jpg
    kmia_gps.jpg
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I looked a little deeper and there is a bug in the approach mode editor that is causing this. I have your ad4 file and will add a fix to Jon's list.
 
lows10.jpg


Hi Tom, I ran in a similar problem at LOWS (Salzburg).
There is a VOR, a NDB and a Route Waypoint called SBG (Stock).
I cannot create a NDB approach which uses the NDB as IF.
sometimes it looks fine in ADE, but not in FS9 GPS...

Do you know if Jon fixed your problem?
 
Last edited:
I have no recollection of this nor of working on a fix
 
So sorry, if Jim's post got lost:
"I looked a little deeper and there is a bug in the approach mode editor that is causing this. I have your ad4 file and will add a fix to Jon's list."

Would you mind to have a look on this problem any way?
 
OK - can you please specify the issue again for me? I see it is something to do with ADE drawing a line wrong. Please give me the steps to replicate this - Thanks
 
Tom's description of the problem at post #1 is very precise.
If there are navaids and waypoints equal named, ADE uses the VOR and not the NDB to draw a line.

Tom had a NDB and a VOR called "MIA", I have a Route Waypoint, a NDB (stock) and a VOR (stock) all called "SBG".
When I try to create a NDB approach with NDB as IF, ADE uses the VOR (or Route Waypoint at the same place as VOR) instead of the NDB for drawing lines.
See picture above...
 
Hi Jon,
I am afraid, I have to report another issue (besides wrong navaid is used for drawing).
I work on the LOWS NDBDME 15 approach. Here is my approach in ADE and (correct) in GPS:
LOWS12.jpg
LOWS13.jpg

The length of the CA leg depends in ADE on the Alt1 Feet (3000), whereas in the GPS it is correct drawn. In ADE the Course decides the turn direction (L/R), very strange...
 
I think there is an assumption here that ADE can draw exactly what is seen on the GPS - to be honest we have never guaranteed that since we don't have the code that FS uses.
 
That is okay for me. If I create approaches I can test them by GPS display and ignore the ADE drawings.
But using the wrong navaid (equal named NDB and VOR) is not so fine and it should be possible to solve it.
Ofcourse it is totally up to you, what you give us for free.
 
I will certainly look at the wrong navaid problem. The issue with drawing approaches does related to the aircraft being used. Faster aircraft will have bigger standard turns and so on. Jim Vile was the technical guru on the Approach Editor. Without him it would not have happened at all. I know we set the flight parameters to a specific aircraft. I believe it was the Mooney Bravo. I know we based the work on AIRINC 424. I would need to look back into the code for the standard turn rates etc used in the ADE drawing program.
 
Thanks Jon,
I used the default 737-400 for my tests, but I will try the Mooney Bravo in the future.
 
FS9 GPS displays the same approach different depending on the aircraft, so you had a problem those days...
Here are two pics with my approach in the Bravo and in the 737..

LOWS14.jpg


LOWS15.jpg
 
Change this section in your aircraft cfg and change your gps display. IOW if all your aircraft had the same flaps up stall speed the gps display would have the same turn radius...... weird I know.

[Reference Speeds]
flaps_up_stall_speed = 53.0 //Knots True (KTAS)
 
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