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Auto gen problem

Tako_Kichi

Tako_Kichi

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466
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ca-ontario
Hi folks,

I downloaded ADE V1.22 on the weekend and went through all three tutorials before attempting to revamp my local airport to something like it should be (at least when using default buildings :)). The stock FSX version was way off. :rolleyes:

I have had quite a bit of success with the exception of the auto gen houses and trees that are appearing all over my repositioned aprons, taxiways and grass areas (the main runways are clear). I have tried numerous exclusion polygons and selected 'Airfield Background' on some attempts and 'Exclude All' on others but nothing seems to get rid of the darn things! :eek:

Am I doing something wrong somewhere or is there a problem with the exclusion function in the latest build?

I would really like to get this sorted as the rest of the airport is starting to look pretty good. :D
 
Tako_Kichi said:
Hi folks,

I downloaded ADE V1.22 on the weekend and went through all three tutorials before attempting to revamp my local airport to something like it should be (at least when using default buildings :)). The stock FSX version was way off. :rolleyes:

I have had quite a bit of success with the exception of the auto gen houses and trees that are appearing all over my repositioned aprons, taxiways and grass areas (the main runways are clear). I have tried numerous exclusion polygons and selected 'Airfield Background' on some attempts and 'Exclude All' on others but nothing seems to get rid of the darn things! :eek:

Am I doing something wrong somewhere or is there a problem with the exclusion function in the latest build?

I would really like to get this sorted as the rest of the airport is starting to look pretty good. :D
Click to expand...

I found that happening to me, as well.

I think it had to do with trying to use land classes outside of the airport itself, but close to it. Eventually, I found that the ONLY area that had big buildings was one of my land class polys, and the whole of the rest of a big square of the city turned into the land class that I was actually trying to use for the fringe!

I may be wrong (Jon? Jim? anyone?), but I think that there may be a basic flaw in FSX which causes these odd occurrences.

I resolved it by cutting back my land class within ADE to the absolute minimum that I could get away with.

The other thing I noticed was that as I increased the amount of Land Class poly coverage around the airport, the more the autogenned landclass was setting up big metropolitan buildings along side the airport! Most off putting!

Now I have a golf course at one corner of the airport (I need it to place a terminal building that was sold by the airport to the golf club), a small forest within the bounds of the airport ( actually called a "nature preserve"), and some scrub overlooking the East side of the airport, that was an absolute necessity:).
 
Tako_Kichi said:
Hi folks,

I downloaded ADE V1.22 on the weekend and went through all three tutorials before attempting to revamp my local airport to something like it should be (at least when using default buildings :)). The stock FSX version was way off. :rolleyes:

I have had quite a bit of success with the exception of the auto gen houses and trees that are appearing all over my repositioned aprons, taxiways and grass areas (the main runways are clear). I have tried numerous exclusion polygons and selected 'Airfield Background' on some attempts and 'Exclude All' on others but nothing seems to get rid of the darn things! :eek:

Am I doing something wrong somewhere or is there a problem with the exclusion function in the latest build?

I would really like to get this sorted as the rest of the airport is starting to look pretty good. :D
Click to expand...

Have you started with a stock airport from FSX or from new? An existing airport will already have an airport background polygon that will exclude local autogen. Are you trying to extend this? from what you say in your post are you trying to move the airport some distance or is 'way off' about the design of the airport.

If you selected Airport Backgrounds what 'Tag' are you applying?
 
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Airports are situated into LOD squares. For some airports they may be sitting on the cusp (fringe) of 3 LOD squares which means there are in the very corner of one of the LOD's.

The SDK is not always clear on placing poly's so we have to learn by trial and error. It has been noted by others that in most cases we should start with a blank ground layer.

Sometimes the ground layers get confused so we need to do it like FSX does it in their design.

The first thing you want to do is draw a large terrain poly making a rectangle or square that is larger then the original airport grass boundary.

This poly will be in the Type Window called <Exclude> and the Tag will be <Everything>.

That does not mean everything will disappear but it will bring the airport to a default lowest level of ground that FSX offers.

If you start FSX with this CVX.bgl active it will make your airport look really ugly because everything has been excluded (within reason) including the flatten. However now we can rebuild the ground backup so it looks like a airport.

The next terrian poly you draw will be the one that adds back the airport grass. Draw this poly with the curves, extensions for runway approaches and anything you want to show as airport bounds.

The Terrian poly you will select from the list will be Type <Airport Background> and then in the Tag window select <Flatten Mask Class Map ExcludeAutoGen>

When using this Tag you MUST set the airport elevation as seen in the airport ARP so the Flatten portion agrees with the airport.

hope this helps
 
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scruffyduck said:
Have you started with a stock airport from FSX or from new?
Click to expand...
Yes it was a stock airport from FSX.

scruffyduck said:
An existing airport will already have an airport background polygon that will exclude local autogen. Are you trying to extend this?
Click to expand...
I saw the original background poly but it was so far off in so many places that I started deleting vertices and trying to 'stretch' it to where it should go. There were many curves made up of multitudes of points and I believe I finally deleted it and created a new one. :o

scruffyduck said:
from what you say in your post are you trying to move the airport some distance or is 'way off' about the design of the airport.
Click to expand...
'Way off' referred to the design of the airport. The runways were actually spot on but all the taxiways, aprons and default buildings were not even close to the proper locations plus it was missing all the service roads and 80% of the ancillary buildings.

scruffyduck said:
If you selected Airport Backgrounds what 'Tag' are you applying?
Click to expand...
I selected 'exclude all' in my exclusion polygon. I wasn't too sure just how that selection box works to be honest as the tutorials didn't cover that area. Do you select the type you want in the top box and then pick one of the options in the lower box or do you select the type in the top box and ALL the options in the lower box are applied in total? :scratchch

Thanks for the prompt replies BTW. I am an active member of the Shockwave forums and also on the Shockwave beta team and it's nice to see another forum that is very helpful to it's members! :)
 
Tako_Kichi said:
Yes it was a stock airport from FSX.


I saw the original background poly but it was so far off in so many places that I started deleting vertices and trying to 'stretch' it to where it should go. There were many curves made up of multitudes of points and I believe I finally deleted it and created a new one. :o


'Way off' referred to the design of the airport. The runways were actually spot on but all the taxiways, aprons and default buildings were not even close to the proper locations plus it was missing all the service roads and 80% of the ancillary buildings.


I selected 'exclude all' in my exclusion polygon. I wasn't too sure just how that selection box works to be honest as the tutorials didn't cover that area. Do you select the type you want in the top box and then pick one of the options in the lower box or do you select the type in the top box and ALL the options in the lower box are applied in total? :scratchch

Thanks for the prompt replies BTW. I am an active member of the Shockwave forums and also on the Shockwave beta team and it's nice to see another forum that is very helpful to it's members! :)
Click to expand...

It may not sound at all logical but, as per Jim's post above, removing autogen involves using an Airport Background Polygon and not an Exclusion Polygon. There is no tutorial on this at the moment but we are working on it. To remove autogen and set the airport background flatten do as Jim suggests:

The Terrian poly you will select from the list will be Type <Airport Background> and then in the Tag window select <Flatten Mask Class Map ExcludeAutoGen>

When using this Tag you MUST set the airport elevation as seen in the airport ARP so the Flatten portion agrees with the airport.
Click to expand...

To define how a poly works you first select the General Type from the top box and then the specifics from the second box
 
Thanks for that info Jon. It's getting late here on this side of the pond so I will give it a try tomorrow and let you know how I get on.
 
Tako_Kichi said:
Thanks for that info Jon. It's getting late here on this side of the pond so I will give it a try tomorrow and let you know how I get on.
Click to expand...

OK No worries - look forward to getting this sorted out :)
 
jvile said:
Airports are situated into LOD squares. For some airports they may be sitting on the cusp (fringe) of 3 LOD squares which means there are in the very corner of one of the LOD's.
Click to expand...
I think my airport is in the middle of a LOD square, but no matter

Sometimes the ground layers get confused so we need to do it like FSX does it in their design.
Click to expand...

Good, I can see that!

The first thing you want to do is draw a large terrain poly making a rectangle or square that is larger then the original airport grass boundary.

This poly will be in the Type Window called <Exclude> and the Tag will be <Everything>.

That does not mean everything will disappear but it will bring the airport to a default lowest level of ground that FSX offers.

If you start FSX with this CVX.bgl active it will make your airport look really ugly because everything has been excluded (within reason) including the flatten.
Click to expand...

And that's as far as I went, this time!

Help!
 
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JohnG said:
And that's as far as I went, this time!

Help!
Click to expand...

Now add another polygon that covers the shape that you want forthe airport background. Select Airport Background as the Type and Flatten Mask Class Map ExcludeAutoGen as the Tag. SET the altitude of the poly to the airport reference altitude (or a tad below it and save it. This is what removes the autogen :)
 
jvile said:
The first thing you want to do is draw a large terrain poly making a rectangle or square that is larger then the original airport grass boundary.

This poly will be in the Type Window called <Exclude> and the Tag will be <Everything>.

That does not mean everything will disappear but it will bring the airport to a default lowest level of ground that FSX offers.

If you start FSX with this CVX.bgl active it will make your airport look really ugly because everything has been excluded (within reason) including the flatten. However now we can rebuild the ground backup so it looks like a airport.
Click to expand...
Not quite true. It will exclude only vector objects, roads, rivers, flattens etc. It will not exclude autogen.

To exclude autogen, you need to use the mis-named "aiport boundary" polygon and each vertex needs a height value.

George
 
because everything has been excluded (within reason)
Click to expand...

Sorry George I should have been more specific then using the words 'within reason' which is to say the autogen is still there but most everything else is gone leaving the FSX default ground world.

When the tag is placed <Flatten Mask Class Map ExcludeAutoGen> is when the actual default autogen is excluded as per FSX and the airport seasonal grass (Mask Class Map) is added back to what was excluded as far as the default airport Grass.

If I <Exclude> <Everything> first then add back the proper terrian poly I have yet to see any problems with the size of the poly that I draw.

Don't want to mislead anyone here.
 
scruffyduck said:
Now add another polygon that covers the shape that you want forthe airport background. Select Airport Background as the Type and Flatten Mask Class Map ExcludeAutoGen as the Tag. SET the altitude of the poly to the airport reference altitude (or a tad below it and save it. This is what removes the autogen :)
Click to expand...

So I did that.

As you can see, the strange scenery is still infesting the airport, but a big chunk of Melbourne has reverted to grassland!

This is the effect that I mentioned earlier.

I did wonder if Essendon Airport, which is also a fairly big airport, and close by (Garuda once landed a 747 there in error) is running interference with YMML?
 
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Originally Posted by JohnG
And that's as far as I went, this time!
Click to expand...

Which at that point I start FSX and then connect ADE. I go into top down view of a Cess 172 using slew mode with each (FSX/ADE) in a half window view.

I click on the Poly icon and place the ADE poly crosshair at my Planes position. I make the first vertex point and then ALT TAB the keyboard to focus back into FSX. Slew again then just click the mouse and ALT TAB back to FSX. I contimue this with or without a image underlay all the way around the airport and then double clicking the mouse to close the poly and choose the proper Tag.

I have not seen any problems with size as you noted above. I can go out as far or stay in close to the airport and the Terrain Poly shows exactly as drawn.
 
Guys

Is this the reverse image problem that Marc was seeing?
 
You need to be a little careful with YMML as it spans two Qmid11 rectangles.



So, to exclude the default airport background you need two exclusions (remember, the exclusion rectangles need only intersect the bounding box of the airport boundary).



To draw your new background, use FSX top-down view in conjunction with ADE, slew to each point in FSX then switch to ADE and add a mark at the aircraft positiom. When you have completed the boundary, join the dots with an ADE polygon and tag it with "Flatten Mask Class Map ExcludeAutoGen"

George
 
John

I did YMML and got the same results as you. I drew a large rectangle poly around the airport.

What is wierd is the rectangle I drew shows but all the ground did not change within the rectangle. It also wiped out most of Australia like your picture shows.

Going to test with other Utilities to see if I get the same results and also try George's suggestion.
 
So that I can gain an understanding of all this, I've now downloaded Luis Feliz Tirado's documentation. Is this the best there is on this subject?
 
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