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Creating Approaches W/O Understanding Approach Leg Types

J

JamesKotak

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us-nevada
Hi,

I am trying to make some approaches for KLAS in FS9 that will cause AI aircraft to follow more realistic, real-world courses rather than the awful FS9 hard coded approaches.

I have gone over the "Approaches" Sticky and understand the different approach types and how they are interpreted by FS9.

I have gone in and added/re-positioned all of the necessary navaids and waypoints so that I have all the elements I need to create the approaches I want to create at KLAS.

Now I am up against a seemingly insurmountable obstacle: Making sense out of all the different approach leg types.

All I want to do is create some approaches that make the AI aircraft follow them. I don't want to obtain a PHD in real-world aviation approach semantics and construction, nor do I care one iota if my approaches follow any kind of official FAA rules and/or guidelines. I just want the AI aircraft to fly the approaches.

Is this possible? Or am I stuck having to become an expert in the field?

If it is possible, would someone please be so kind as to explain to me which approach leg types I can get away with using to accomplish my objective?

It's probably worth mentioning that I don't ever use FS9 ATC because it is so absurdly unrealistic, nor do I use a flight computer to program my routes. So I am not at all concerned with screwing up ATC or anything else at KLAS in the process.

Thanks a lot!
JK
 
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One of the experts will put me right but as I recall approach code is for the user aircraft only and AI aircraft will follow the hard code route at all times.

However I could be completely wrong :o
 
???!

Ummmm... I'm a bit dumbfounded here. Every post I've read on here having to do with approaches has mentioned AI aircraft in-depth. The sticky entitled "Approaches" specifically points out AI aircraft behaviors with regard to approaches, and in addition, I could have sworn I've even seen you make specific reference to AI Aircraft/Approaches multiple times in this forum, Jon. Are you sure you read my post correctly?

With all due respect, I feel sort of like I'm being told by Buzz Aldrin that the Moon is made out of green cheese.

Somebody please set me straight, as I am now COMPLETELY lost.

Thanks,
JK
 
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scruffyduck said:
One of the experts will put me right but as I recall approach code is for the user aircraft only and AI aircraft will follow the hard code route at all times.

However I could be completely wrong :o
Click to expand...

yes, you are :)

the AI follows approaches (think of VHHX checkerboard approach for example)

But they dont use transitions as far as I know
 
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As I said - I was not sure. I am a developer and not an expert on this :o My recollection may have come from transitions.

In any case I am sure the moon is made of cheese :D
 
scruffyduck said:
As I said - I was not sure. I am a developer and not an expert on this :o My recollection may have come from transitions.

In any case I am sure the moon is made of cheese :D
Click to expand...

Sorry, I was just shocked to read that after pouring over pages and pages of thread after thread for the last 4 hours dealing with specifically this issue. My entire reality was focused on exactly this, so to see the developer even suggest that was just... well, it made me think I was losing my mind for a second there. lol

I'm glad I'm not crazy... although I do feel like I'm heading there in trying to wrap my head around all this stuff. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks,
JK
 
Off Topic - a definition of an expert (certainly applied to me) phonetically (ex -spurt)

ex - something that is past or expired
spurt - a drip under pressure

My apologies to those folks for whom english is not their first language ;)
 
:D:D:D

even my rusty English is enough to enjoy your jokes ...

back to topic:

if there exists an "easy way to approaches" (approaches for dummies")
I would be glad.

the only simple way to create an approach I know, is adding an ILS to a runway with ADE and let it do the job.
 
We need Jim to come on-line for this one ;)
 
AI Planes do not follow any legs.

Like Jon said the legs that are in the approaches are for the User plane only.

The AI Plane only knows and follows one part of the approach. That is the very first entry or what we call the approach header.

If all you want to do is manipulate the approach path of the AI Plane then all you have to do is make a single approach header leaving all legs out.
 
The simple answer is that in VFR weather the AI aircraft will use an ILS approach but only use the main approach, no transitions, etc.

And from that main approach they only use three pieces of information, all found on the "main page" of the approach in ADE:

1. They will fly to the FAF from all directions
2. They will descend to the altitude specified by the time they reach the FAF
3. They will fly away from the FAF using the heading specified
4. They will descend after passing the FAF such that they will reach the runway altitude when they reach the runway
5. They will turn to the runway's heading once intersecting the runway or the extended centerline of the runway.

If the runway in use does not have an ILS approach, they will use the "canned" approach.

If in IFR weather they will use the approach with the highest priority (i.e. doesn't have to be an ILS approach), but using only the information listed above. No transitions, etc.

Hope this helps,
 
thanks,

Jim and Tom,

I will print your posts and paste them on my desktop...
(this way I cannot forget it anymore)

really very clear explanations

greetings from Bavaria
 
Lets take Toms list and apply it to a picture since he did a much better job in the explination.

1. They will fly to the FAF from all directions
2. They will descend to the altitude specified by the time they reach the FAF
3. They will fly away from the FAF using the heading specified
4. They will descend after passing the FAF such that they will reach the runway altitude when they reach the runway
5. They will turn to the runway's heading once intersecting the runway or the extended centerline of the runway.



1. I show the AI Plane flying toward the FAF (longest red arrow) on a heading of 245 True degree.

2. The AI Plane prior to the FAF05 will descend to 4000 ft.

3. The AI Plane will continue on the True heading of 245 degrees after passing the FAF05

4. The AI Plane after passing the FAF05 will start a gradual descent

5. As the AI Plane continues to track 245 degree and gets closer to the extended center line of the 05 runway it will start a right turn to align with final.

One more note: If the AI Plane goes missed ATC will tell it to climb to 6000 ft as seen in the header. You can set which way you want the AI Plane to turn (left or right) at the bottom of the header.

So all AI Plane instructions are in the header only. I do show a CF leg but it is not needed since Runway 05 has already been defined by the Header.

We place all the legs as a guide in the GPS receiver for the User plane. If the legs are present including any transitions then the User plane can ask ATC for that approach. The User plane can also lock the autopilot to the legs using the NAV/GPS switch.

JK

If you are working on KLAS I have a FS9 KLAS on AVSIM that you can download and look at with ADE. It has curved approaches for the runway 7's and 19's.
 
Like Jon said the legs that are in the approaches are for the User plane only.
Click to expand...

So perhaps I am less 'ex' and not so much a 'drip' after all :)
 
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