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FSX Exclusions

K

kmanning

Messages
1,267
Hi Gary,
I've noticed you some times use the word "exclude" or "exclusions" in some of your replies, and I do recall seeing that icon in the tool bar in ADE. But I don't understand the meaning or the purpose of exclusions and what it does in ADE. So, could you explain? I've read the manual but all it does is explain how to use it, but it does not explain it's purpose, what it does, and when to use it.

Another reason I'm curious about this is because I've noticed little small squares that say Exclude in my airport file, and I don't recall putting them there. It must have happened when I was trying out the tool, trying to find out exactly what it does. You recall that I was making a new airport terminal at KPVD, and I have it finished. But to install this new terminal, I created my own airport file bgl, made some corrections, and this is where I tried the exclusion tool. I'm not sure if I was correct but I kept thinking that the exclusion tool is to remove an object without having to delete it. Well, the terminal in this file is the default stock library object in ADE. So, in trying out the exclusion tool, I drew a rectangle around the library object to see if it removes it, but it did not remove it, and that's probably how those little exclusion objects got placed. So, since that didn't work, I just deleted the terminal library object in ADE. I had to get rid of it so that it would not show up in the FS. So, I guess I should ask, when creating a new object, such as the new terminal, do I delete the old one or do I exclude it, of course, using my own airport file and if that's what exclusion do.

Ken.
 
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I will let Gary answer for his part. For me exclusion and exclude are interchangeable. There are two main types. Exclusion Rectangles which are part of the airport these are generated by the airport and scenery compiler (BglComp). There are also terrain exclusions which are used to exclude terrain features and are generated by the terrain compiler (Shp2Vec). Terrain is not in the airport bgl file but in the CVX bgl file that ADe will create.

I am going to talk about exclusion rectangles. To be very clear these do not delete anything They merely stop FS from displaying something that is 'under them' You need to understand something about loading order of files and this article should help: https://scruffyduck.screenstepslive.com/s/help_docs/m/20268/l/199760-priority-matters Bottom line is last file loaded trumps the rest. So an exclusion rectangle in the last file loaded will stop FS from displaying any objects that are in earlier files where their reference point is covered by the exclusion rectangle. However anything that loads after that will shop up. Exclusion rectangles only work on what is already loaded.

I should say that exclusion rectangles can be set to exclude all types of object or a specific type such as a library object or taxisign or generic building for example

Every object has a reference point - the coordinates of the object placement. Mostly these are in the center of the object footprint but not always. If the exclusion rectangle covers the reference point then FS will not display the object.

Finally micro excludes. These are what you are seeing if you load a bgl file created by ADE. Generally they are hidden since you should not need to mess with them. There job is simply to stop the stock objects on the airport from showing. In programs like AFCAD or AFX users need to manually create exclusion rectangles to get rid of stock objects.

To make it easy for users to delete or move stock objects ADE generates the little exclusion rectangle to cover the reference point for each. It then makes a copy of the object in the ADE project file. Now if you decide to delete an object then you just do that in ADE and it won't appear in sim. If you move one then it moves - without the micro exclude you would get a duplicate - and, by the way you just won't be able to move it without creating your own micro exclude and adding the object back

Please don't move, or delete the micro excludes that ADE places since that will just stop you deleting or moving objects in ADE. Don't add your own exclusion rectangles to try and get rid of the objects displayed in ADE - it won't work. FS processes exclusion rectangles before objects in a file so it follows that you can't exclude something you have in your file. Also be aware that exclusion rectangles can cancel each other out.

That is probably more than enough to be going on with.
 
scruffyduck said:
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/exclusions.441097/#post-781691

Finally micro excludes. These are what you are seeing if you load a bgl file created by ADE. Generally they are hidden since you should not need to mess with them. There job is simply to stop the stock objects on the airport from showing.
Click to expand...

An excellent explanation on a subject Jon probably knows better than most others in the FS development community ! :)


I believe Jon and I may share another "best practice" advisement for working with ADE:

In ADE, after a 'working copy' of an airport is created via "Open Stock Airport", only work with *.AD4 project files via: :alert:

* "Open Airport"

...rather than:

* "Open Airport from BGL"

GaryGB
 
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We are agreed on that Gary. ☺️ Loading and sahib con the bgl file is bad news. This is how AFX and AFCAD work but there are limitations to what information you can save and repeated loads and saves can degrade the precision of coordinates and other dimensional data.

ADE uses the project file for a lot of reasons. Not least that you can have scenery, terrain and custom GP objects all in one place and ADE will use multiple compilers to create multiple files for FS. There is also a lot of information stored that is used to make your design work easier.

There are only two reasons I know of to load an airport from a bgl file. The first is if you don't have a project file. In that case load it once and save it as a project file straight away.

The other reason is when you are trouble shooting and need to check what is actually in the file you compiled.
 
Thanks Jon and Gary.

I think I understand it now. Exclusions just keeps FS from displaying any object that has been excluded in ADE, and does not delete that object. But I still need to understand which of the 2 I should use if I want to get rid of an object, and if it's safe or okay to delete an object in ADE. Say for example, I created a project bgl file of my own and I want to get rid of the default terminal, which is a library object, should I delete the object or should I exclude it? It seems to me it would be okay to delete objects that I want to get rid of since I'm using a project ADE file and I'm updating the airport to what it is today. This is how it's done in videos I've seen in ADE tutorial videos. I also want to get rid of the jetways as well, that is delete them because I'll be using the jetway I've downloaded from the 3D Warehouse. Regarding permission that was disuessed, I won't put this out without permission from the owner, if I should decide to do that. But for now, it's just for my use. I've also added another object to the jetway to make it work and connect to the terminal building. The default jetways will simply not work. When I complete it and if I have the time, I'll upload a photo screenshot of my project. It definitely looks more like the real thing than the stock.

Ken.
 
Hi Ken:

Please read Jon's explanation again:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/exclusions.441097/#post-781691



In FS scenery development, we always emphasize that we first 'exclude', then 'replace' as needed.


The goal is to not mess with any default (aka "stock") airport-specific or other scenery object placement.


Jon has meticulously coded ADE so that it does the heavy-lifting for you when you open a "stock" airport, by:

* De-compiling and copying the XML code for the stock airport into his proprietary AD4 project file

* Creating micro-excludes for airport-specific or other local scenery objects placed by original "stock" airport scenery BGLs


End users can open and further modify via the ADE GUI, the copy of the airport proprietary *.AD4 project file.


End users should NOT modify micro-excludes for airport-specific or other scenery objects placed by "stock" airport scenery BGLs. :alert:


IMHO: ;)

NEVER OPEN OR WRITE INTO AIRPORT OR OTHER FS SCENERY BGL FILES CREATED BY ADE !!!


GaryGB
 
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Hi,

If you are talking about objects while in ADE, if they are visible in ADE you can select them and DELETE them. The automatically generated micro-excludes will do the excluding for you. If the objects is NOT visible in ADE, then you will need to create your own exclude rectangle to exclude it.

And as Gary said, if you have any micro-excludes visible that means you opened the BGL file instead of the AD4 file. For normal editing this is discouraged, since you "break" several features within ADE when you do that.
 
[QUOTE="GaryGB, post: In FS scenery development, we always emphasize that we first 'exclude', then 'replace' as needed.
The goal is to not mess with any default (aka "stock") airport-specific or other scenery object placement.[/QUOTE]

Hi,
Yes, I agree that the goal is to not mess with any default "stock" airport files. What I'm confused about is that when one creates an airport project and "Saves" it as an AD4 airport project, which is now a separate bgl from the stock, how does deleting the objects in the AD4 project file have an effect on the stock airport file? Or, do I miss understanding something here?


End users can open and further modify via the ADE GUI, the copy of the airport proprietary *.AD4 project file.
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking. But I keep interpreting that you're saying deleting an object in the AD4 project file will delete or mess up the objects in the original airport stock file.


End users should NOT modify micro-excludes for airport-specific or other scenery objects placed by "stock" airport scenery BGLs. :alert:
Click to expand...

Let me make sure I made myself clear just to be sure we're on the same track. When I was talking about these micro-excludes, I was not referring to the original stock airport. I was referring to my own AD4 project file, and they were not placed there when I first created this project airport. When I check the Stock airport, these micro excludes DO NOT exist. Just to be sure, I created another new project KPVD airport file and saved it as my own project and there were no micro excludes placed or created. I only noticed them after I tried to exclude the terminal object, not in the stock airport but in my own AD4 project file. These excludes cover things like taxiway signs, ILS and DME transmitters. They are all over the place, and they were not there when I first started this airport project. I think I put them there by accident when I tried to experiment with the exclude in ADE. If you want, I'll upload my project.

Ken.
 
GaryGB said:
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/exclusions.441097/#post-781731

In FS scenery development, we always emphasize that we first 'exclude', then 'replace' as needed.

The goal is to not mess with any default (aka "stock") airport-specific or other scenery object placement.
Click to expand...

kmanning said:
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/exclusions.441097/#post-781791
Hi,

Yes, I agree that the goal is to not mess with any default "stock" airport files. What I'm confused about is that when one creates an airport project and "Saves" it as an AD4 airport project, which is now a separate bgl from the stock, how does deleting the objects in the AD4 project file have an effect on the stock airport file? Or, do I miss understanding something here?
Click to expand...


The *.AD4 airport project file contains a copy of all the airport data needed to compile a separate BGL from the stock airport BGL, and is not a BGL file; it is used to output the data used to create a BGL.

The new airport copy derived from the stock airport also has created 'exclusion rectangles' to prevent the default "stock" airport from being rendered, and instead, the airport is rendered only from code in that new copy of the stock airport that is compiled into a new airport BGL from the data stored in the *.AD4 file.

The exclusion 'rectangles' (which are distinct from a CVX vector exclusion 'polygon' and which exclude entirely different scenery objects from what is excluded by an exclusion 'rectangle') ...must remain in place within the *.AD4 and BGL files as hidden micro-excludes that prevent default airport objects from being rendered in FS / P3D at run time from the default airport scenery BGLs responsible for placement of the "stock" airport objects.

If you delete the micro-excludes for the stock airport objects, the stock airport objects will no longer be 'excluded'.

GaryGB said:
End users can open and further modify via the ADE GUI, the copy of the airport proprietary *.AD4 project file.
Click to expand...

kmanning said:
That's what I was thinking. But I keep interpreting that you're saying deleting an object in the AD4 project file will delete or mess up the objects in the original airport stock file.
Click to expand...

No, I'm saying that deleting an object in the *.AD4 project file will delete or mess up the 'exclusion rectangle' objects responsible for excluding the original airport stock file from being displayed.


GaryGB said:
End users should NOT modify micro-excludes for airport-specific or other scenery objects placed by "stock" airport scenery BGLs. :alert:
Click to expand...

kmanning said:
Let me make sure I made myself clear just to be sure we're on the same track. When I was talking about these micro-excludes, I was not referring to the original stock airport. I was referring to my own AD4 project file, and they were not placed there when I first created this project airport. When I check the Stock airport, these micro excludes DO NOT exist. Just to be sure, I created another new project KPVD airport file and saved it as my own project and there were no micro excludes placed or created. I only noticed them after I tried to exclude the terminal object, not in the stock airport but in my own AD4 project file. These excludes cover things like taxiway signs, ILS and DME transmitters. They are all over the place, and they were not there when I first started this airport project. I think I put them there by accident when I tried to experiment with the exclude in ADE.
Click to expand...

You did not put those micro-excludes into the AD4 file; ADE did ...so that the stock airport object placements from default BGLs no longer would be displayed, and so that only the airport objects placed by the COPY of the airport compiled into a BGL for you from the *.AD4 project file ...will be rendered in FS / P3D at run time.

GaryGB
 
Hello Gary and Ken,

I recently opened a stock airport in ADE (see picture below), intending to replace the 3 stock hangars (blue rectangles).

1543946616375.png


After reading your explanations I'm still not sure of what I should do or not. So I may ask :

1. are these blue rectangles the "micro exludes" placed by ADE, and therefore should not be deleted ?

2. if yes, how can I possibly hide them while placing new BGL objects in this area ?

Thanks for your help
Chris
 
always feel free to ask Chris,
those 3 blue rectangles are "Generic" buildings as you see......
these can be safely deleted, or resized or even moved to another location because they already have the 'micro excludes" for them, which will be hidden if working with the ad4 file
you can then add your new objects anywhere you like
 
scruffyduck said:
I will let Gary answer for his part. For me exclusion and exclude are interchangeable. There are two main types. Exclusion Rectangles which are part of the airport these are generated by the airport and scenery compiler (BglComp). There are also terrain exclusions which are used to exclude terrain features and are generated by the terrain compiler (Shp2Vec). Terrain is not in the airport bgl file but in the CVX bgl file that ADe will create.

I am going to talk about exclusion rectangles. To be very clear these do not delete anything They merely stop FS from displaying something that is 'under them' You need to understand something about loading order of files and this article should help: https://scruffyduck.screenstepslive.com/s/help_docs/m/20268/l/199760-priority-matters Bottom line is last file loaded trumps the rest. So an exclusion rectangle in the last file loaded will stop FS from displaying any objects that are in earlier files where their reference point is covered by the exclusion rectangle. However anything that loads after that will shop up. Exclusion rectangles only work on what is already loaded.

I should say that exclusion rectangles can be set to exclude all types of object or a specific type such as a library object or taxisign or generic building for example

Every object has a reference point - the coordinates of the object placement. Mostly these are in the center of the object footprint but not always. If the exclusion rectangle covers the reference point then FS will not display the object.

Finally micro excludes. These are what you are seeing if you load a bgl file created by ADE. Generally they are hidden since you should not need to mess with them. There job is simply to stop the stock objects on the airport from showing. In programs like AFCAD or AFX users need to manually create exclusion rectangles to get rid of stock objects.

To make it easy for users to delete or move stock objects ADE generates the little exclusion rectangle to cover the reference point for each. It then makes a copy of the object in the ADE project file. Now if you decide to delete an object then you just do that in ADE and it won't appear in sim. If you move one then it moves - without the micro exclude you would get a duplicate - and, by the way you just won't be able to move it without creating your own micro exclude and adding the object back

Please don't move, or delete the micro excludes that ADE places since that will just stop you deleting or moving objects in ADE. Don't add your own exclusion rectangles to try and get rid of the objects displayed in ADE - it won't work. FS processes exclusion rectangles before objects in a file so it follows that you can't exclude something you have in your file. Also be aware that exclusion rectangles can cancel each other out.

That is probably more than enough to be going on with.
Click to expand...
It may seem odd, but your post just saved my day. I was having trouble excluding stock LIRU stuff, mostly static aircraft and animations, which generated problems with the correct parkings.

I added an exclusion rectangle and it works a treat.
 
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