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FSXA Mapping problem

OK guys
Let me try to summarize what I have learned from this post up to this point, to make sure I got it right.
1) If an item is to remain with just the "Gmax" colors (like what I have now) no UVW or textures required.
2) If I want to apply at texture, either from a full .bmp paintable file or just .bmp color square, then a full UVW mapping needs to be done.

I am still not clear about putting one items UVW mapping on 2 different texture sheet sheets in order to have a different texture for the inside and outside? and if it can be done, how what would be the procedure?

One more thing. I have configure my video driver and checked it out over the weekend

I keep looking at the section in part 3 of the mapping tutorial that deals with mapping sizing and I am a bit confused at the math.
The discussion starts of by saying that is we want a rivet to have 16 pixel, which is 4 pixel wide by 4 pixel long, then we are looking at 16 pixel per inch, translating to 192 pixel per foot. My math says that we are looking at 16 pixel area, we have 4 pixel per linear inch in width and length, not 16 pixel per linear inch. Therefore we would be working with a mapping of 48 pixel per linear foot.

Working my mapping size based on my calculation, I have worked out that for my boat, if I use a 28'x28' mapping square, and send it to 4096x4096 .bmp file, I am getting about 12 pixel per linear inch. When I was sending it to a 1024x1024, I was only getting about 3 pixel per inch, which made it quite pixelated when I tried to paint a straight line on an angle.

I was having another problem with my testing this weekend. I could see my "painting" that I did on my Gmax file, but when I export my model to FSX, all I see is black.
What Am I doing wrong?

Michel

PS: I am totally confused. Just when back to my paint file and put on the "ruler", When in pixel, it reads 4096 x4096. But I change the ruler to inches it reads 537.5 x 537.5 inches which is about 45' x 45'. Am I to interpret that the size in inches on the paint file has nothing to do with the mapping size in G-max?
 
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MEPaquette said:
OK guys
Let me try to summarize what I have learned from this post up to this point, to make sure I got it right.
1) If an item is to remain with just the "Gmax" colors (like what I have now) no UVW or textures required.
Click to expand...

Correct.

2) If I want to apply at texture, either from a full .bmp paintable file or just .bmp color square, then a full UVW mapping needs to be done.
Click to expand...

Also correct.

I am still not clear about putting one items UVW mapping on 2 different texture sheet sheets in order to have a different texture for the inside and outside? and if it can be done, how what would be the procedure?
Click to expand...

This can be done using a multi-material. However, it's much easier to separate inside from outside – make them two separate objects – and then map them. You can then fill up a full texture sheet with each mapping if you wish.

I keep looking at the section in part 3 of the mapping tutorial that deals with mapping sizing and I am a bit confused at the math.
The discussion starts of by saying that is we want a rivet to have 16 pixel, which is 4 pixel wide by 4 pixel long, then we are looking at 16 pixel per inch, translating to 192 pixel per foot. My math says that we are looking at 16 pixel area, we have 4 pixel per linear inch in width and length, not 16 pixel per linear inch. Therefore we would be working with a mapping of 48 pixel per linear foot.
Click to expand...

I may have misunderstood Milton here!

I was having another problem with my testing this weekend. I could see my "painting" that I did on my Gmax file, but when I export my model to FSX, all I see is black.
What Am I doing wrong?
Click to expand...

Are you flipping the texture vertically when converting to .DDS?

PS: I am totally confused. Just when back to my paint file and put on the "ruler", When in pixel, it reads 4096 x4096. But I change the ruler to inches it reads 537.5 x 537.5 inches which is about 45' x 45'. Am I to interpret that the size in inches on the paint file has nothing to do with the mapping size in G-max?
Click to expand...

Correct. All Gmax, or FS, sees is the number of pixels.
 
And are you putting the .DDS texture into the texture folder specified in the boat's aircraft.cfg file? (assuming it is "flyable").
 
It looks like I need the next tutorial after mapping.
My file is still in .BMP format.
And Tom Gibson, my file is in the texture folder but not in DDS format.

Right now I have to leave to go visit my new granddaughter.
Check into the next step later

Michel
 
BMP format is fine, as long as it is in DXT format (converted by Imagetool or DXTBmp). Regular 24 bit BMP images should be used in GMAX (if you use a BMP image), but will not appear in FS.
 
Tom
I have notice that in Paint.net, I can save the file in .dds format. But then the problem is how do I associate it to the texture fils. Is this something that can be done in 3DMax but not in Gmax?
 
If the texture file is named LuxuryCruiser.bmp for Gmax then FSX will automatically look for a file named LuxuryCruiser.dds However you have to make the material for the model in Gmax an FSX material before export. The SDK tells you how to do that.
 
Success at last.
I downloaded DXTBmp and converted my file.
I found out that I can't choose the converted file in Gmax. So what I have learned is that I need to do a regular bmp file to do all my painting which can be located in the Gmax directory, to check my texture on my model, but then convert the file and put it in the texture folder ensuring that the file name is exactly the same as the regular bmp file.
Here is a screen shot of the small portion on painting I did showing a narrow white line to indicate my waterline, Then a blow up of that section showing the pixels


Hull paint.jpg


Hull paint-Blowup.jpg



if the time it took me to get this much is any indication, I will be putting many hours to paint a waterline mark on my hull.
 
And I was under the impression that it was the exact file that was named in Gmax that was used in FSX.
I got the fact that Gmax needed a 24 bit .bmp file for texture, but I missed on the fact that FSX uses a "converted" file with the same name as the one use in the texture parameter, but it had to be in an FSX format.
Now that clears up a bit of confusion I was having when doing my research.
But then I am not a good reader. I prefer instructions that are concise and straight to the point in short form.

Thank You all.

I feel I have conquered another step in my very long journey to build my boat. I know that I still have a long way to go.

BTW. I have already started to separate my hull into outer and inner hull. I have accepted that this will go a long way into simplifying my mapping. I am also finding out that this is a good way of getting rid of a bunch of "hidden" polygons I was ending up with when "crunching" my box segments together at the bow.

Michel E Paquette
 
MEPaquette said:
So basically, every part should have a UVW map in the stack, but they don't all have to be exported to a BMP file

Michel
Click to expand...

Yep, they should be mapped with UVW's.

In Gmax/Max, you do 'NOT' have to use BMP's in your mappings. The program uses the 'names only' when it exports your model, so no worries concerning BMP's. You can use JPG's if you wanted in Gmax/Max. I use PSD files, layered, in Max. When exporting, the game will use DDS files in P3D/FSX. Same for Gmax with FS2004. It will all use Bitmaps with the 'MDL' files.
 
Lionheart
So to recap (making sure I got this right)
Not all material need to have the UVW applied
All material that has a UVW needs a texture associated to it
Not all textures need a .bmp file associated to it.
You were saying earlier that for chrome, you don't map, but I am assuming that you do a UVW and texture. For you chrome look, do you adjust texture parameter for the chrome look, or do you associate it to a bmp file with the chrome look?

Michel
 
Michel, I have learned so much from the people who are answering your questions now but the best advice ever impressed on me was to read and learn the SDK. I can't stress enough how important this is. For texture mapping; become familiar with (FSX Material), (New Aircraft Procedures) and (Texturing Aircraft Models) in the Modeling SDK.

Chrome does require a map as you will learn from reading these sections of the SDK.
 
Paul
I appreciate you trying to re-direct me back to the SDK. There is only one problem with this. No matter how often I go back and try to follow what it is trying to tell me, there are to many words being used that are understood by the people who have been educated in that field, not by regular people off the street that has never done this type of work before. Its a bit like if I, as a steel detailer and civil engineering technologist, start talking to you about section modulus and moment of inertia of a steel member. Unless you have studied in that field you probably have no clue what I am taking about.
For example, right now I am working on the windows for my boat. The way I have it right now, is I have an outer and an inner polygon, applied a FSX texture that I named "glass", went down to the section that says "set default to transparent" then I set an "Opacity level". This is all I have done. I have not even applied a UVW map, which apparently needs to done. Once I export to FSX, I have my glass. Plying around with the opacity level, I get a more of less transparent glass. I am also under the impression that if I want to have a different opacity from inside and outside, my outer and inner glass will need to be split into 2 different members to have a different opacity number applied to it.
When I go the "new aircraft procedure" under "glass", they say all this extra things that should be done like assigning a "diffused color", "Specular color", "Bump", "Reflection" and a bunch of others, then they have the diagram of the material editor, showing all these items with a check mark, with a file name associated to these. How does all these thing affect glass, and what do those "map" look like?? Is a map just a picture file with just a small square of color, of is it the .dds file of all the pieces of the plane drawn on it?

This is the reason I need to ask question on this forum and get thins explained in a basic language.

I know that the question I ask may seem very basic and ridicules to the experienced modeler, but to me, especially the texture part of this modeling is very confusing.

Michel
 
Michel,

Your right it is confusing and it took me a long time to figure it out but I was determined to understand the various modeling methods. I'm sure those textbooks you were studying to become an engineer were daunting but you got through them. Thankfully this is not that hard. I am still learning and depend on help from people in this forum. What I like about the gurus around here is that they will give you just enough information to point you in the right direction but not all the answers. In this way you have to do some experimentation on your own and that is how you learn. Bill Leaming for one is good at that, he can stimulate your appetite but leave it up to you to cook the meal.

Have you looked at the Wiki section of this forum? A lot of the questions you may think of could have the answers there.
Another great place for information and tutorials is Free Flight Design a familiar place to the members of this forum.
http://www.freeflightdesign.org/tutorials.html

This is not to say you shouldn't ask questions, please continue to do so as not everything can be answered by the resources I have mentioned.

This is n4gix's glass recipe (hope you don't mind me posting it Bill). It's the one I used to start but altered it for my own use. Following the SDK example for glass textures set it according to his recipe. You will have to experiment with the Alpha settings of the bitmaps.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is the "recipie" I use:
Blinn Opacity: ~6%
Diffuse Color: 64x64 pixel DDS/DTX5 w/Alpha
Specular Color: (same bitmap as Diffuse!)
FresnelRamp: (one of the defaults or custom)
Diffuse: x
Reflection: x
Specular: x
Special Functionality:
x: Blend diffuse by diffuse alpha
x: Use global environment map as reflection
Reflection Scale: 100%
Specular Map Power Scale: 256
Bloom:
x: Allow bloom
x: No specular bloom
Source Blend: SrcColor
Destination Blend: InvSrcAlpha
Emissive Mode: AdditiveNightOnly
x: Z-Test Alpha
Alpha Test Mode: Always
x: Set final alpha value at render time
Final Alpha Multiply: 255.0
x: Z-Write Alpha
__________________
Bill Leaming
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul
 
Paul
Thank you for the "recipie" for glass.
Most of the items listed I know are check marks and setting in the material editor screen.
But my problem lies in lines 2, 3 and 4

Diffuse Color: 64x64 pixel DDS/DTX5 w/Alpha: I gather this is a .bmp file that I convert to a .dds file with a setting of DTX5. This much I can remember when doing my initial testing. I do seem to recall something about "alpha", but I need to go convert a file to see were that is. My question is, what is on that small 64 pixel square picture? Is it a blank square or do I put a color on it.
Specular color your saying same bitmap as diffuse, I guess that will become clear when Diffuse color is clarified
Fresnel ramp, a little less confused on that since I have noticed some of those in texture files. And in the main texture folder of FSX there are 2 "Fresnel" files. I am assuming that these are what you refer as "defaults"

I believe my biggest handicap with this this whole texture thing is that I have never used a paint program other than to paste a screen shot in the basic windows paint program in order to cut out a section to paste into forum replies. What I did in paint.net for my hull bottom is the first time I ever "painted" anything. I still need to look at that to see how to get that "checkered" background that I see on all these texture file.

Until I started on this project, my only background in computer graphics was AutoCAD (since about the mid 80's) and the steel detailing program I use (since 2000).
So what I trying to say is that maybe before I learn how to do "texturing" maybe I should learn how to use the "paint.net" program.

Michel

PS Correction, AutoCAD is more like early nineties
 
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The 64x64 bitmap has any color you want to use for your 'glass'. For some projects I use a dark green to give a "tinted glass" appearance.

There are four "channels" in any bitmap: Red, Green, Blue and Alpha. The basic color is of course a blend of the RGB channels. The Alpha is always pure white, unless a specific Alpha value is 'painted' in that channel.

DXT5 is the only compression method that allows for 'shades of gray' in the Alpha channel, which is of course why we'd use it for glass. The darker the shade of gray, the more transparent the glass becomes.

Reflection Scale defines how much is reflected.

Specular Color defines what color is reflected. This bitmap will contain the color (I use blue mostly, but perhaps a hint of yellow for the sun), and the Alpha defines how 'tightly' the reflections are constrained on the surface. The darker the Alpha shade of gray, the narrower the focus of the reflection.
 
Thank you Bill
You have defined things in a way that I can finally begin to understand.
For the first time, I can look at the FSX material SDK and some of the texture files in an airplane folder and I am starting to understand what it's all about.
I am still not sure how to get these results in Paint.net, but this is where the experimentation can begin.

Michel
 
Lionheart
So to recap (making sure I got this right)
Not all material need to have the UVW applied
All material that has a UVW needs a texture associated to it
Not all textures need a .bmp file associated to it.
You were saying earlier that for chrome, you don't map, but I am assuming that you do a UVW and texture. For you chrome look, do you adjust texture parameter for the chrome look, or do you associate it to a bmp file with the chrome look?
Click to expand...

Yes! I apply a UVW to all parts. That is a basic map, but not technically mapping in the sense that it only has a UVW attached to it, but isnt arranged on the UVW pallette, just a quick UVW is attached. Only done with 'solid color' textures.


Textures: When you are making a model, you can use JPG's, PSD's, Bitmaps, etc, for your 3D Design program. When in the sim though, the MDL file (model) will require the Bitmaps or DDS files for those textures, not JPG's. (In case there is still confusion over that). The Exporter will automatically change all materials to require the 'sim' textures, which are Bitmaps and DDS files. You will never have to change use of textures 'types' when exporting. That is automatically done for you.



Bill
 
Oh, you can get Adobe Photoshop now 'monthly', so if you wanted, you could try it out for 30 days, or they may have a free trial period. I highly suggest it. You work in 'Layers' and can turn layers on and off. You have a master PSD file (layered) and you burn Bitmaps and DDS files off of it. It is an AWESOME tool. Great for redoing family picks as well. Very powerful program.
 
There is also a very good freeware graphics editor called "GIMP", which can do most of the things that Adobe Photoshop can do, it can also open & save PSD (Photoshop files) files.
 
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