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Modification and Use of Third Party Addons

So I need to change BOTH airports. Or more precisely.. HIDE the default airport entirely, and parts of the add-on airport.

There cannot be two AFD files active at the same time (not even the default).

Start with the default and make it the way you want it by moving/replacing the parking spots. You can add your own buildings and even those from the Orbx library if their EULA permits this.
 
Hi Jon:

Regarding my suggestions earlier in this thread:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showpost.php?p=154402&postcount=29

...and your subsequent replies:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showpost.php?p=154423&postcount=36

When one clicks a scenery object placement footprint in ADE v1.47.07, it displays as translucent orange, and the mouse cursor tool-tip info box shows:

Code:
LibraryObject
Name: {FSX format GUID #} 
File: Unknown
Shows At: (XML 'imageComplexity' parameter value)
Heading: (xxx.x degrees parameter)
ADE does not have information about the objects in the Library Object Manager the objects are shown as black rectangles. Loading libraries that contain the objects (based on the GUID) result in those black rectangles becoming yellow and the footprint will represent the object.
I'm wondering if it would it be feasible for ADE to make more extensive use of info it has access to during an impromptu "view / inspect" of an airport area. :confused:

For the ADE extended functionality I'm envisioning, rather than creating an ADE project and being required to manually import all the airport area scenery components, one has instead only done this to "Open" the files to be 'viewed':

Airport:

ADE Menu > File > Open Airport from BGL > (Browse / Select / Click 'Open')

Scenery Object XML Placements:

ADE Menu > File > Import BGL > (Browse / Select / Click 'Open')


[EDITED]
IMHO, at this point it would be very convenient for end users, if ADE were to automatically create its own separate index of objects which have an "active attribute" in FS due to their being located in folder paths that are "active" area layers in the FS Scenery.Cfg file. :idea:


That way ADE could have access to all info inside MDLs without requiring the end user to manually import all the scenery object source *.BGLs (ex: libraries) in to ADE's presently designated folder chain.

[END_EDIT]


IS2 for example is able to do this on the fly with incremental updated checks every time it is opened (IIRC the 'initial' scan for "active" scenery BGLs is slightly longer during IS2 installation).


This suggested functionality could ideally allow ADE users to end up with a full set of info displayed for FSX content ex:

When one clicks a scenery object placement footprint in ADE, it displays as translucent orange, and the mouse cursor tool-tip info box shows:

LibraryObject
Name: [Friendly Name] {FSX format GUID #}
File: [scenery object source *.BGL file name] (ex: library name)
Shows At: (XML 'imageComplexity' parameter value)
Heading: (xxx.x degrees parameter)




Also, regarding "FS9" scenery object info *.TXT files:

When ADE opens a scenery object XML placement BGL, can ADE also read / import / display the specific object "Friendly Name" info from the scenery object info *.TXT file in (the same) \Scenery source folder ?
The full Library Object Manager developed some while ago can read these files. The cut down version in ADE currently does not.
Since use of FS9 MDL files in FSX scenery projects continues to be a viable and in some cases preferable option for certain scenarios, IMHO, it would be desirable to have ADE implement the ability to also read those "FS9" scenery object info *.TXT files. ;)

That way ADE can utilize such info required to achieve a comparably full set of info displayed for FS9 content ex:

When one clicks a scenery object placement footprint in ADE, it displays as translucent orange, and the mouse cursor tool-tip info box shows:

LibraryObject
Name: [Friendly Name] {FS9 format GUID #}
File: [scenery object source *.BGL file name] (ex: library name)
Shows At: (XML 'imageComplexity' parameter value)
Heading: (xxx.x degrees parameter)




In addition, regarding ADE automatic creation of exclusions for default FS ("stock") airport-specific components versus NOT creating exclusions for 3rd party add-on FS airport-specific components: :rolleyes:

ADE can load stock placement data for stock objects. At the same time it automatically creates micro excludes for these objects so that the user can just delete the object in the ADE display. At the same time it can import object placement data that is in the same bgl file as the airport or, as discussed above, by import of a third party bgl file that contains placement data. Obviously in the case of third party object placement no excludes are created.

Oddly that function is in ADE but we never made it active

ADE does that now with stock objects. The excludes are a couple of feet square. ADE does know where the reference point is - even if it is outside the footprint - which by the way is the case with some objects such as stock fuel stations.
It would be extremely helpful for ADE to implement an option during import of an airport (ex: via a pop-up dialog box) to enable automatic creation of exclusions for 3rd party add-on FS airport-specific components just as it does for default FS ("stock") airport-specific components. :banghead:


IMHO, this might perhaps best be implemented while also offering an ADE 'View' menu option (or via another translucent display overlaid "layer" ?), allowing the end user to visualize and edit (ex: enable / disable / delete check boxes) to toggle micro-excludes automatically created for 3rd party add-on FS airport-specific components.


Of course, as I think about this, I find it would also be very helpful to have such a feature option for visualizing and editing (ex: enable / disable / delete check boxes) to toggle micro-excludes automatically created for default FS ("stock") airport-specific components too ! :p


Many Thanks for your further consideration of these proposed extensions to the already excellent feature set in ADE. :)


PS: Again, I do hope a possible 'ADE windfall' arising from this lengthy post may ultimately prove to be of benefit to Francois' efforts at PAKT, and to other FS developer's projects in the future.


Regards,

GaryGB
 
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Hi Gary and thanks for your suggestions. I need to take some time to understand the implications for ADE. Obviously ADE is already able to find and report stock objects within the airport area. At the moment it does not look for third party objects. There is a two stage process here. First is to find the placement information and second to find the bgl file that contains the specific object. I would be concerned that for some users with multiple layers of bgl files that ADE would be loading placements onto placements. Now FS can sort this out but we currently do not have any machanisms in place to handle layered exclusions and placements. Second is finding the actual objects. Users often appear to load third party addon airport and perhaps the objects related to them - this is how this thread started. However there is no certainly or likelihood that the user has the object libraries installed.

We are currently looking at our scanners to see if we can improve the capture of third party object data. I have to say though at the moment the efficiency and performance of the scanning code we have is not as good or fast as say AFCAD and other more recent tools.
 
I think a separate Library Objects Manager could maybe overcome and bypass making ADE too complex and doing things it isn't initially intended for? As I understand Jon already made that program, but could add some additional functionality to it?

I can see where it would be VERY complex to figure out where all files are on any given PC. After more than 30 years of helping PC owners, I am well aware of the mess most of them (and us, and our main OS suppliers) manage to make more often than not on their machines.

And with Terabyte disks hanging off many PC's these days, and not always turned on(!), things are getting ever more complex (and time consuming).

I 'think' I understand what Gary means with adding information to the scenery.cfg, but I would be hesitant to that. Most files already are a thorough mess with layer and area numbers not in synch, with too many entries and other issues (like entries remaining after deleting software etc.)

My preference (but I have stopped being a programmer some 25 years ago, so please don't shoot me) would be to have some 'temporary replacement' scenery.cfg, that becomes active for ADE usage and testing, and gets replaced by the original 'production scenery.cfg' again after closing ADE.
 
I 'think' I understand what Gary means with adding information to the scenery.cfg, but I would be hesitant to that.

I don't think Gary was suggesting adding anything to the scenery.cfg. What he said was:

"At this point it would be very convenient for end users, if ADE were to automatically create its own index of objects in "active" area layers in the FS Scenery.Cfg file."

ie. create an index from the cfg not in the cfg.
 
While you are waiting for Jon to code that functionality .... :cool:

Instant Scenery 2 does have a Scan function which will diplay the object location /GUID / Lib name / placement file name and indeed the friendly name of all the objects in a given range (specified in nm)

It can also display active excludes, and give you an idea (based on bounding box) of the ref point.

This is very handy to work out why an object isn't associated with the file you think it is.

In combination with SbuilderX linked to FS it is not at all difficult to make small accurate excludes.
 
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Although some would have us simply do the Q&D ("Quick-&-Dirty") 'one-size-fits-all' single, big exclude rectangle over an airport area, as Jim Vile has described in some of his own work, other projects may call for a number of small object-specific excludes on top of a "Airport_Backgrounds_Flatten_MaskClassMap" only polygon type to retain FS rendering and display some underlying content.

Hi Gary

I am not sure I follow the above statement. To my knowledge I have never advocated the use of a large single Exclude.

Micro Excludes fit nicely into the ADE project file and as stated here many times it is the only way to ensure no overlapping that causes problems including the disappearing animated Jetway issue.

In the early development of ADE we were using a large single exclude until Jon was able to write code to bound just the ref point. Those single excludes were primarily for the taxiway signs until we were able to find the correct signs for the correct airport and the master reference sign. Even though we place Micro Excludes into the compiled airport bgl they have nothing to do with the airport. The owership of excludes belong to the world data base and not the Airport Facility Data. This is why with just one slip of a Lat or Lon number something halfway around the world can be excluded.

All my work since the early days of FS2004 was done with micro excludes and placed in the split scenery bgl which in most cases had all my hand wriiten XML Approach Code.

In the final stages of ADE developement we knew a single large exclude was not the correct way to go. I may have posted somewhere that it was working up to a point.

Sorry if I mislead anyone :)
 
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I am not sure I follow the above statement. To my knowledge I have never advocated the use of a large single Exclude.

Gary's sentence may be interpreted two ways, depending on how one parses the commas. Here is how I parsed and recast his statement as he no doubt intended:

Some would have us simply do the Q&D ("Quick-&-Dirty") 'one-size-fits-all' single, big exclude rectangle over an airport area.

As Jim Vile has described...
:D
 
Hi Gary

I am not sure I follow the above statement. To my knowledge I have never advocated the use of a large single Exclude.
Hi Jim:

It is I who should be "sorry if I misled anyone", as it was indeed my intent to convey the fact that you have for years so clearly explained the potential benefits of using micro excludes -rather than one large exclude -when working on FS airports. :o


As François knows all too well from my years of prolific posts (and mischief) over at simFlight Forums, I have the chronic habit of trying to explain entire ideas all in one paragraph, and my predilection for "verbalepsy" and run-on sentences is exacerbated by my use of Dragon NaturallySpeaking Professional. :duck:

For better or worse, Dragon NaturallySpeaking allows one to speak at up to 160 words per minute with 98% accuracy of speech recognition; unfortunately, at those speeds, sometimes punctuation and sentence structure can end up being given short shrift when one is "on a roll" if the built-in 'auto-punctuation' feature results are not edited after a particularly lengthy "utterance" on my part. :p

I have edited my "post in question" in an attempt at better clarity. :idea:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showpost.php?p=154402&postcount=29


Sometimes though, I still tap away much too fast on the keyboard before I've had my morning coffee; or worse yet, after a long day... which is when I really get into trouble ! :rolleyes:


Many Thanks, Jim, for sharing your numerous tutorials and illustrated examples of various methods that can be used to create more realistic airports in FS ! :)


PS: Thanks to Fr. Bill as well, for the kind editorial suggestion on curing that particularly misleading run-on sentence ! :D


Regards,

GaryGB
 
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While you are waiting for Jon to code that functionality .... :cool:

Instant Scenery 2 does have a Scan function which will diplay the object location /GUID / Lib name / placement file name and indeed the friendly name of all the objects in a given range (specified in nm)

It can also display active excludes, and give you an idea (based on bounding box) of the ref point.

This is very handy to work out why an object isn't associated with the file you think it is.

In combination with SbuilderX linked to FS it is not at all difficult to make small accurate excludes.

Hi Ian:


IS2 is indeed very convenient, and I was delighted when Konstantin was able to so quickly add that functionality to the feature set when it was suggested during the Beta. ;)


There is of course "a lot to be said" for use of IS2 in a fully 3-D rendered FS session as I described here:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showpost.php?p=154325&postcount=15



But I must say that I also enjoy using Airport Design Engine (ADE) for its CAD-style display in a 2-D mode, allowing one to see all "active" components associated with a specifically selected and "imported / re-written" airport scenery in a top-down view.


It was for this reason I anticipated it might be possible to derive even more benefit from the existing feature set of ADE by having more complete information displayed about both FS9 and FSX objects in the pop-up dialog as described here:



http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showpost.php?p=154402&postcount=29

...here:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showpost.php?p=154404&postcount=30

...and here:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showpost.php?p=154501&postcount=43


I had intended to convey that it would be nice to have a function in ADE that makes it possible for "all" active default and 3rd-party scenery objects in the FS scenery library to be automatically detected, so that their information is immediately available to display in the above pop-up dialog when right clicking an object so one can see all its properties.


This proposed functionality would hopefully eliminate the need for the end user to manually add all scenery libraries etc. to particular folder(s) in ADE, in order for object information to be immediately available when right clicking an object to see its properties as described above.

This would also hopefully allow for the "thumbnail" display of the object image which normally takes place with default objects after they have been properly integrated into ADE, although I understand one must still manually create thumbnails or use existing down-loadable sets which meet the import criteria for ADE.


Hope this helps clarify what I was trying to explain above. :)

GaryGB
 
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Sorry Gary, must have missed that in your long post :D

Now that I hear you use Dragon for Forum posting, that makes complete sense, of course.
 
Yup, when Gary posts, the rest of us need something called Dragon Naturally Listening.

There's just one problem with that... it hasn't been invented yet. :(
 
Tiny excludes were forced on us by a bug in FS2004.

If you excluded a default object, and then added a new object with an effect attachment, the effect wouldn't work.

By excluding only the refpoint, the chances of the exclude interfering with your addon object was very slim... because you'd have to place it exactly in the exclude's tiny bounds.

There didn't appear to be any performance penalty with many tiny excludes vs. one huge exclude, so tiny excludes were generally adopted.

Dick
 
I don't think Gary was suggesting adding anything to the scenery.cfg. What he said was:

"At this point it would be very convenient for end users, if ADE were to automatically create its own index of objects in "active" area layers in the FS Scenery.Cfg file."

ie. create an index from the cfg not in the cfg.
Hi George:

Thanks for clarifying what I had initially missed in my "Q&D" edit of a hastily 'dictated' post; that was indeed what I meant to convey. :)

I've now edited that post above. ;)

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showpost.php?p=154501&postcount=43

Regards,

GaryGB
 
I know this is an old thread, but I discovered something the last few days and that is if two copies of a single texture exist (i.e. an MDL that calls for texture_x.bmp) and those two scenery layers exist at the same time, the textures will turn black...

I discovered this by accidentally having two scenery.bgl's that called the same library object textures...
 
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