Over Exposure In Model

[kmanning]

Hi,
I finally got my ground gate marking remapped and in FSX. I had to make some changes using the Properties in MCX but there's one problem I haven't been able to fix. The ground is a much lighter color and does not match the rest of the airport grounds. It's as though the Specular is set too high. Here's an image of what I'm talking about:

I don't know if you actually call this over exposure. But as you can see, you can see the outline and is much brighter than the surrounding airport. I've fixed the blooming that you see at the lower left corner by setting the Specular to 0, 0, 0 in the Material Editor of MCX but it still has not fixed the brighter outline around this model. So, I've already set the Specular to 0, 0, 0. Apparently, the Specular must be turned down before exporting the model but I don't think there's no way to turn down the Specular in Sketchup as you can in Gmax. Does anyone know what causes this and what I need to do to make it match the rest of the airport?

Ken.

 

[arno]

Are you exporting as FSX MDL file or using the FS2002 ground polygon technique? And do you know if the other ground polygons have been made in the same way?

 

[kmanning]

Are you exporting as FSX MDL file or using the FS2002 ground polygon technique?

Hi Arno,

No, I'm not using the FS2002 ground polygon technique. I should have specified what modeling tool I was using. I'm using Sketchup. I was using Gmax but I thought I would give Sketchup a try. Here are the steps I've used:


When using Sketchup as a modeling tool:

1. I open the original MDL file using the Import button in MCX, then export it as a dae.
2. In Sketchup, I imported the dae file.
3. In Sketchup, I hide about 2 layers using the Layers Tool so that I can access the ground polygon to remap the C32 to C39 using the Position Texture.
4. After finishing remapping, I replaced the 2 layers by unchecking the boxes using the Layers Tool.
5. I exported it as an dae file then converted the dae file to an mdl file using the Export Object button in MCX.
6. I exported the texture as dds file. I cannot use the same dds textures that I already have because the texture names in my model are different from those in the original texture folder.
7. I place the mdl file in place of the original mdl file and renamed the Model.CFG to the same name as mine.
8. Then I placed the dds textures from my model into the original texture folder. That's basically it. Am I using the correct technique when using Sketchup as my modeling tool?


When using Gmax as my modeling tool:

1. I import the original MDL into MCX and export it as 3DS.
2. I import the 3DS file into Gmax.
3. I use the Material Navigator to apply textures to my model.
4. I UVW Map the textures and collapse them.
5. I use the Material Navigator to apply the ground marking texture to the model. But the problem is that they never show up in the model unless I raise it 1 meter by using the Z axes.
6. I select UVW Unwrap and click the Edit button to assign the correct gate numbers to the 3 squares.
7. I collapse All.
8. I create a new guid and export the model as an MDL. I leave the Texture Options as Default.
9. I replace the MDL with the orginal. Of course, I backup the orignial MDL.

When I re-import the my model into MCX, the ground looks good but it does not show any of the lines and the ground markings. I don't understand why it's not applying the ground markings to my model when I use Gmax as my modeling tool. Could you explain why it's not appying the ground markings, such as the lines and the gate numbers, to my model in Gamx? They show up in the original model, but they don't show up in mine.

And do you know if the other ground polygons have been made in the same way?

I'm not sure if I understand. I did not change any of the polygons. I just remapped it.

Ken.

 

[kmanning]

Why is it taking so long to get any replies? I come here with questions and trying to learn something and I'm not getting any answers. What good is this forum if there are no one to reply and help others? Does anyone know why I'm having this problem and if I'm doing things correctly? I have many questions. Should I use Gmax, and should I export using the FS2002 technique? If so, how do I use the FS2002 technique or what are the steps?

Ken.

 

[arno]

Hi Ken,

I guess the difference between SketchUp and GMax must be some material difference somewhere. Maybe it helps if you make a material template from the orignal MDL material (except for the texture name) and then apply that to your new model after remapping. Then it should hopefully look the same.

Which sim/MDL version are you exporting to? If it is P3D v2 or higher it is likely that you have lost the layer numbers in the material while editing it and that this messed up the drawing order.

 

[kmanning]

Hi Ken,

I guess the difference between SketchUp and GMax must be some material difference somewhere. Maybe it helps if you make a material template from the orignal MDL material (except for the texture name) and then apply that to your new model after remapping. Then it should hopefully look the same.

Hi Arno,
Thanks for replying. I don't know if you have this airport scenery by FSDT, but if you open the model file in MCX and open the Material Editor, you'll see that there are several textures with the same name but each one has a different property. I guess I said that correctly. For example, there are 3 textures with the same name kdfw_23, but each one has a different Property. Correctly me if I'm wrong but are these just materials or could they also be called layers? I've noticed that when I import into Sketchup. So, I guess they're layers. But when I export this as a dae from Sketchup and import this file into MCX, I don't get these extra layers. It's just one base layer. When I export from Gmax, I only get 2 of the layers, and one of these actually have 5 layers. So, I'm not getting all the layers I need to make the changes using the Properties. I'm not sure if this is playing a part with the problem I'm having. So, it may help that I make a template of all the materials. But would you explain how to make a Material template? I'v never done that before and I'm not sure how to do it. Does this seem to explain the differnce between Sketchup and Gmax and what may be the problem?

Which sim/MDL version are you exporting to? If it is P3D v2 or higher it is likely that you have lost the layer numbers in the material while editing it and that this messed up the drawing order.

I'm exporting to FSX. You've ask me if I were exporting as a FSX MDL or if I'm using the FS2002 Ground Polygon technique. Where do I go to learn how to use the ground polygon technique?

Ken.

 

[arno]

Hi,

I don't know if you have this airport scenery by FSDT

No, I don't have this airport.

, but if you open the model file in MCX and open the Material Editor, you'll see that there are several textures with the same name but each one has a different property. I guess I said that correctly. For example, there are 3 textures with the same name kdfw_23, but each one has a different Property. Correctly me if I'm wrong but are these just materials or could they also be called layers?

You can use the same texture on different materials indeed. In the material editor you can use the compare tab to see what the differences are between those similar materials. It could be only the zbias (layer number) value is different, but it could also be there are other differences. If you export to DAE this information is likely lost and then all parts with those 3 materials can be merged into one part.

So, it may help that I make a template of all the materials. But would you explain how to make a Material template? I'v never done that before and I'm not sure how to do it. Does this seem to explain the differnce between Sketchup and Gmax and what may be the problem?

As discussed above, if you have different materials that get merged on export to DAE, using a material template won't help either. That only helps if you loose some attributes, but not to "unmerge" the different materials.

I'm exporting to FSX. You've ask me if I were exporting as a FSX MDL or if I'm using the FS2002 Ground Polygon technique. Where do I go to learn how to use the ground polygon technique?

FSX does not store layer numbers in the MDL file, that is only from P3D v2. So that means the developer probably used some other technique to ensure the ground and markings are layered correctly.

 

[kmanning]

If you export to DAE this information is likely lost and then all parts with those 3 materials can be merged into one part.

If this is a problem when importing and exporting dae files, is there a format I can use where things don't get lost during the import or export? Should I use Gmax rather than Sketchup? Or, can they be done in Sketchup? The problem is that Sketchup only uses dae and kmz files, unless there's a plugin I can get that would work.

As discussed above, if you have different materials that get merged on export to DAE, using a material template won't help either. That only helps if you loose some attributes, but not to "unmerge" the different materials.

I don't know if I miss-understood you but you said above that it may help if I I made a material template from the original mdl. I thought it would be possible to add the new template to my new model after remapping. So based on what I'm trying to do, what format should I use and is Gmax a better modeling tool for this purpose?


Ken.

 

[arno]

If this is a problem when importing and exporting dae files, is there a format I can use where things don't get lost during the import or export? Should I use Gmax rather than Sketchup? Or, can they be done in Sketchup? The problem is that Sketchup only uses dae and kmz files, unless there's a plugin I can get that would work.

Those settings are only kept when you use the FS X format or the MDL format, but with neither of those two you can import in SketchUp or GMax. So I don't see a way to import into an editing tool and keep those settings.

I don't know if I miss-understood you but you said above that it may help if I I made a material template from the original mdl. I thought it would be possible to add the new template to my new model after remapping. So based on what I'm trying to do, what format should I use and is Gmax a better modeling tool for this purpose?

The idea was indeed to apply the template after mapping it again. But if different materials get merged into one as discussed above, then a template won't help. It will not go back from the merged materials to the separates ones that the MDL has.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

You may wish to review some of your prior threads here at FSDev regarding the custom edits you seek for FSDT's KDFW FSX scenery:

https://www.google.com/search?q=site:www.fsdeveloper.com++kmanning+GaryGB+"KDFW"&sca_esv=0f5c59b9ee7c2fb4&sca_upv=1&ei=c5rFZuXyOaWZ5OMP6oWT0Qc&ved=0ahUKEwil-I6Ay4WIAxWlDHkGHerCJHoQ4dUDCA8&uact=5&oq=site:www.fsdeveloper.com++kmanning+GaryGB+"KDFW"&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiMHNpdGU6d3d3LmZzZGV2ZWxvcGVyLmNvbSAga21hbm5pbmcgR2FyeUdCICJLREZXIkizMVCVCViaKXABeACQAQCYAd0BoAHdBKoBBTUuMC4xuAEDyAEA-AEBmAIAoAIAmAMAiAYBkgcAoAeOAg&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

You may note that in my numerous past efforts to assist you in achieving a successful edit of the aircraft parking space number, a specific process needed to be followed in sequence within Sketchup, with very careful attention to documenting and duplicating all Material properties for all involved Apron and Marking G-Poly layers FSDT originally utilized at that specific KDFW airport location of interest ...in FSX.

It is possible that you could also achieve your goal by using MCX to export a Collada DAE to be edited in Blender, but it may be (and I'm speculating as a Blender newbie here) that Blender will impose unanticipated- and unwanted- Material property changes automatically upon import of the DAE file, so I would strongly recommend finishing this particular project task with Sketchup.

A caveat when working with transparency in Sketchup is that new Faces are by default created "double-sided".

IMHO, it may be best to duplicate / edit a FSDT flat 3D object plane (G-Poly), rather than to replace it with an entirely new one you made.


Also, one should not allow a graphics application to change the internal ICC Color Profile of a texture image applied to a G-Poly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICC_profile


It seems you are close to your goal; perhaps a re-examination of FSDT's G-Poly Material properties will assist with a "match-up" ?



Perhaps Arno might comment on whether this issue involves orientation of "Normals" that do not match FSDT's properties ?

I mention this as IIUC, "Normals" orientation for vertical planes (ex: walls, vegetation) may differ from horizontal planes (G-Polys).



Note: "Assume vertical normal" Material Property is not documented in the PDF Manual for MCX August 14, 2024 release.

However, "Assume Vertical Normal" does appear under Enhanced Parameters in Material Editor > [ Properties ] tab for MCX August 14, 2024 release.

Even with colors the polygon normals will result in different lighting for polygons facing in different directions. Unless Sketchup does something weird with the normals.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/problem-with-color-or-texture-blending.441296/post-783660

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/fsx-transparent-window-help.437611/

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/improved-custom-vegetation-shadowed-faces.451017/


If MCX can not assign a desired "Normals" orientation for FSX, perhaps Blender may be an option (subject to caveats above). ?

https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/130132/how-to-edit-normal-direction

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

I took a quick look at FSDT KDFW for FSX and the specific G-Poly corresponding to the original C32 ground marking.

As discussed in this thread:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...when-i-export-an-object-into-sketchup.446569/

...and in reference to the screenie attached to this particular post:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...rt-an-object-into-sketchup.446569/post-835020

...for mapped texture KDFW_DET10.DDS (providing the original C32 ground marking in question), MCX shows "Assume vertical normal" Material Property is set to "False" for the horizontally-oriented Face of the G-Poly it is mapped onto:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Addon Manager\Simobjects\Misc\FSDT_KDFW\model.KDFW_sett07_sf\KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl.


IIUC (and please correct me on this, Arno! ), when viewed in Top-Down view within FSX / P3D, it will appear extra "bright" relative to surrounding horizontally-oriented Faces of G-Polys having "Assume vertical normal" Material Property set to "True".

I believe other nearby G-Polys that you re-created / edited may have this same issue with the "Assume vertical normal" setting.

Perhaps Kens above screenie shows the potential impact on run-time display of mis-matched G-Poly Material Property settings ?


I suggest that Ken re-check this specific issue as a priority before considering other Material Property issues for that G-Poly; if they all match the original FSDT KDFW G-Poly for "Assume vertical normal" setting, then certainly "other" mapped Material Properties may instead not match the original FSDT KDFW G-Poly settings.

GaryGB