FSX Prop Animations not working after Export in ModelConverterX (SOLVED)

[Jonathan Lueb]

Hi Guys,
I need some input here. I have tried converting an FS2004 model to FSX. In general everything has converted well, except for one thing - the prop animations. I have followed the instructions from Tom Gibson meticulously. (Both the web version as well as the pdf version.) the ones I have found are different.

I have tried a million and one different combinations and have been working on this for a couple of weeks now. Sometimes, I get no rotating props, other times I have the slow props rotating but they do not change with RPM. I have tried still and blurred, still, slow and blurred, Once I just replaced the still with the blurred props just to see if the blurred props work. They do. I have sought to mimic one of the default aircraft in the way it's visibility is defined vs using the prop0_still, prop0_slow, and prop0_blurred. I also tried building the still, slow, and blurred props separately and merging it into the aircraft with the original props removed. I honestly think I have tried everything but it still doesn't work. In MCX all the animations work perfectly. And when converted they all seem to work correctly in FSX (gear, ailerons, elevators, flaps, and trim tabs) However, the front landing gear does not turn and the props do not change as the RPM increases. I have scoured so many forums for an answer and have tried anything I thought might work. I have used both version 1.4 and the latest 1.5 development release. (They do seem to deal with things slightly differently in the hierarchy.) Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for the input!

Jonathan

 

[gavinc]

Hi,
Not sure why you are having issues.

Import base model (assuming this is a single engine model)
In the Set condition variables box set
gen_model = 2 (this is the exterior model)
engine0 = 0 (this is the still prop)

follow Toms instructions about glass etc and export the model as an FSX model (be sure to export it with a different name so you don't over write the FS9 model)

Import base FS9 model (assuming this is a single engine model)
In the Set condition variables box set
gen_model = 2 (this is the exterior model)
engine0 = 5000 (this is the slow prop)

Now in the Hierarchy Editor delete every part that does not have Prop0_still as it's animation.
Change the animation on the remaining parts to prop0_slow
Export the model as Prop_slow

Import base FS9 model (assuming this is a single engine model)
In the Set condition variables box set
gen_model = 2 (this is the exterior model)
engine0 = 10000 (this is the blurred prop)

Now in the Hierarchy Editor delete every part that does not have Prop0_still as it's animation.
Change the animation on the remaining parts to prop0_blurred
Export the model as Prop_blurred

Repeat the above steps only set gen_model = 1 so you have the parts for the VC.

Now edit the model.cfg so the normal= the name of your base FSX model and the interior = the name of your base VC model.

In MCX import your FSX model, merge the prop_slow and prop_blurred model. In the Hierarchy Editor set the visibility conditions to match the prop and export. Repeat with the VC model.

I have done this on 100s of models without issue.


The only trick is if the FS9 model has props that rotate counter clockwise. If you go into the aircraft.cfg file and in the [Propeller] section there is a line that says "rotation=-1" then the props will not display correctly.
Set this to "rotation=1" and all will be well.

Gavin

 

[=rk=]

Hi,
Not sure why you are having issues.

Import base model (assuming this is a single engine model)
In the Set condition variables box set
gen_model = 2 (this is the exterior model)
engine0 = 0 (this is the still prop)

follow Toms instructions about glass etc and export the model as an FSX model (be sure to export it with a different name so you don't over write the FS9 model)

Import base FS9 model (assuming this is a single engine model)
In the Set condition variables box set
gen_model = 2 (this is the exterior model)
engine0 = 5000 (this is the slow prop)

Now in the Hierarchy Editor delete every part that does not have Prop0_still as it's animation.
Change the animation on the remaining parts to prop0_slow
Export the model as Prop_slow

Import base FS9 model (assuming this is a single engine model)
In the Set condition variables box set
gen_model = 2 (this is the exterior model)
engine0 = 10000 (this is the blurred prop)

Now in the Hierarchy Editor delete every part that does not have Prop0_still as it's animation.
Change the animation on the remaining parts to prop0_blurred
Export the model as Prop_blurred

Repeat the above steps only set gen_model = 1 so you have the parts for the VC.

Now edit the model.cfg so the normal= the name of your base FSX model and the interior = the name of your base VC model.

In MCX import your FSX model, merge the prop_slow and prop_blurred model. In the Hierarchy Editor set the visibility conditions to match the prop and export. Repeat with the VC model.

I have done this on 100s of models without issue.


The only trick is if the FS9 model has props that rotate counter clockwise. If you go into the aircraft.cfg file and in the [Propeller] section there is a line that says "rotation=-1" then the props will not display correctly.
Set this to "rotation=1" and all will be well.

Gavin

Hi, I don't see that you have addressed alpha channel transparency discrepancies that exist between FS2004/FSX. I have not read Tom's guide and see that you refer to "glass etc," which could cover prop disk transparency, however this information applies to the "base" FSX export and as you pull each prop state from the original model, I see no operation to restore transparency, by inverting the alpha channel, or whatever. If I missed it, apologies, if the OP misses it, the disks will remain opaque.

 

[Jonathan Lueb]

Thanks Gavin and Rick. I knew I had followed everything to the letter in Tom's document. It all came down to the rotation. Switched it to 1 and voila, it works! I did see some threads on rotation but never thought that was my problem. Well, now I know for next time. I can assure you this won't happen again. After two weeks of experimentation my brain was ready for a solution! Thanks again!!!

Jonathan

 

[tgibson]

Thanks for the reason it wasn't working. I will add a step in the tutorial telling people to check the aircraft.cfg file and make sure there are no -1 rotations in there.

 

[gavinc]

Hi, I don't see that you have addressed alpha channel transparency discrepancies that exist between FS2004/FSX. I have not read Tom's guide and see that you refer to "glass etc," which could cover prop disk transparency, however this information applies to the "base" FSX export and as you pull each prop state from the original model, I see no operation to restore transparency, by inverting the alpha channel, or whatever. If I missed it, apologies, if the OP misses it, the disks will remain opaque.

Hi Rick,
Re prop transparency - you are correct I didn't mention it explicitly. Happily the current version of MCX is smart enough that 99% of the time it can identify the prop texture and apply the transparency settings automatically.

I also forgot to mention that if the prop is counter clockwise then you should go into the hierarchy editor and reverse the prop animation for full authenticity (I think Tom covers this in his guide).

Gavin

 

[=rk=]

Happily the current version of MCX is smart enough that 99% of the time it can identify the prop texture and apply the transparency settings automatically.

Ok great, but I think, to assume MCX is inherently smart enough to identify any given texture, to be the one for the prop disk, edit, save and overwrite the original, without any input from the user beyond:

Import base model (assuming this is a single engine model)
In the Set condition variables box set
gen_model = 2 (this is the exterior model)
engine0 = 0 (this is the still prop)

follow Toms instructions about glass etc and export the model as an FSX model (be sure to export it with a different name so you don't over write the FS9 model)

Import base FS9 model (assuming this is a single engine model)
In the Set condition variables box set
gen_model = 2 (this is the exterior model)
engine0 = 5000 (this is the slow prop)

Now in the Hierarchy Editor delete every part that does not have Prop0_still as it's animation.
Change the animation on the remaining parts to prop0_slow
Export the model as Prop_slow

Import base FS9 model (assuming this is a single engine model)
In the Set condition variables box set
gen_model = 2 (this is the exterior model)
engine0 = 10000 (this is the blurred prop)

Now in the Hierarchy Editor delete every part that does not have Prop0_still as it's animation.
Change the animation on the remaining parts to prop0_blurred
Export the model as Prop_blurred

Repeat the above steps only set gen_model = 1 so you have the parts for the VC.

Now edit the model.cfg so the normal= the name of your base FSX model and the interior = the name of your base VC model.

In MCX import your FSX model, merge the prop_slow and prop_blurred model. In the Hierarchy Editor set the visibility conditions to match the prop and export. Repeat with the VC model.

seems optimistic to me. I know how to perform the procedure manually, because I was not content with the inbuilt algorithm.
This, from my answer to a thread on this subject in 2018:

showing the three prop states, on a converted Vlad Zhyhulskiy FS9 An-12. The procedure is a bit contrived and I understand MCX may have newer features that streamline the process. If automatic texture identification and replacement in not one of them, we have, at least, informed readers of this thread to address that aspect of conversion.

 

[tgibson]

Often the alpha channel transparency in the image itself does not need to be changed at all, which means all MCX needs to do is set the material to use it. This it can do. However, if the author of the FS9 aircraft used Opacity settings instead of alpha transparency, then the current user will need to add that himself to the image; MCX does not do that automatically, AFAIK.

I do cover prop rotation, and have made it more explicit in the latest update.

 

[Jonathan Lueb]

Thanks so much for all your input. What I initially took as a working prop animation is actually not that. What it started doing is actually changing the prop texture. (Which it didn't do before, so there is headway! That was a result of getting rid of the rotation line in the aircraft.cfg.) But there is actually no animation. Everything else animates perfectly. I started from scratch and it still does the same thing. Now here is what happens. First even though I have used the three states. Visually there are only two. Prop_Still, and Prop_Slow are the same in its components and textures. Prop_Blurred is a disk. I don't know if the fact that still and slow are the same is the cause of my issues. BTW. this is a twin engine turbo prop, to be more precise it is a Rockwell Turbo Commander. so I think just prior to the changing of the states the images rock back and forth slightly. But never give the sense of rotation a part from the visual blurred disk. It seems to me that the textures including alphas are all just fine. I didn't think that would give me the symptoms I'm experiencing. When I start the plane the still props rock briefly then the blurred disks show up. When you stop, it does the reverse, the blurred image rocks and then the still blades pop up.
Now once I have the prop animation fixed, there is one final think that I can't seem to get a grasp of. The landing lights are on the landing gear and the lights on the fuselage I have connected to the taxi-light switch. They seem to animate fine. However, the values I have to enter in the rotation don't correlate with your tutorial Tom. For the green axis to point forward. I enter (0;0;0). But for some reason in the sim I don't really see the lights. Now, I haven't tested this out but I seemed to get some better results when in MCX 1.4. But then again it might also be related to the fact I chose to put the different lights on the two switches. I will test all that once I get the prop animation working.
There is one last question I have. I get the following message when exporting. It all seems to function fine, though. Why could I get that message?
8:06 PM XtoMDL Warning warning : Part information for rudder_key indicates that it is deprecated!

Any more thoughts on these issues?

 

[=rk=]

Undoubtedly, the model would be Milton Shupe's Turbo Commander. Here is a version that has already been converted.

FSX Aero Commander AC680S

FSX Native Aero Commander AC680S by Milton Shupe, Scott Thomas, Andr Folkers, Bill Womack, and Sounds by Gary Jones.Package includes three models, two custom panels and era gauges, custom sounds, custom Flight Model, and four liveries.Compatible with all the original repaints.Simple...

flyawaysimulation.com

I believe this is another version.

Veneaviones Turbo Commander Package

Veneaviones Turbo Commander Package with winglets, for FSX/SP2 tested. Updated correct engine data. No more rocketing out of anywhere uncontrollably. Five liveries, all US-registered: N36SW, N9987, N95590, N45RF, N1050P. Compiled and tweaked by Gabriel Donate.Screenshot of Veneaviones Turbo...

flyawaysimulation.com

Normally I do not rob people of the joy of running their own searches, so I apologize, but it occurred to me that is your project, which has already been converted countless times, so no point to reinvent the wheel, unless that is specifically your intention.

 

[Jonathan Lueb]

Thanks Rick, yes it's the Veneaviones, which is indeed the turbo prop and the FS2004 model does function correctly in FSX. However, I'm wanting to port some of my all-time-favorite aircraft to MSFS. I understand though for that to work correctly it needs to be in an FSX native format. I have tried reaching out to Veneaviones but they no longer exist and I have found no current way to reach them. For me it's more than just having a plane work in the simulator, it's the learning process on how to converts the aircraft. This one happens to be my first because it's my favorite and I want to learn how to do it. I end up spending much more time in modifying things than actually flying the aircraft just because I want to learn the process of things. Many years ago I actually helped port an aircraft from FS2004 to FSX with the permission of the developers and they added me to the list of developers which I was not expecting but I greatly appreciated. They actually gave me access to the source files back then. Obviously MCX gives us new possibilities, but I want to do things correctly. This is my favorite airplane to fly and yes, there are others out there such as Carenado's aircraft that I'm sure will be converted to MSFS, but this gives me the opportunity to learn something new and allows me to use my creative juices. I've actually already added a beacon on a moving rudder part that never was actually on the FS2004 version of this model. Do I have to? No. But I enjoy learning how to do things like that. I'm sure you know the feeling. If this conversion is not working correctly, I want to understand why and how I can fix it. I think all of you guys know hoe that is. Thanks for your thoughts and instruction!

 

[Jonathan Lueb]

Maybe you can explain to me what the difference is between the coordinate system used in the aircraft config file and the coordinate system in MCX. Even though I have got the lighting placement correctly working in the model. I noticed the values in the cfg file are different than the position in formation that is loaded into MCX, even though the placement is correct. I learned the hard way that you have to modify the cfg file and that the information that is loaded into MCX is not saved just read. I adjusted the placement within MCX and lost it all after exporting and importing. That's when I discovered what it actually does. So now all the lights are in there correct position. But I would like to understand why the values are different. It's obviously basing things off of a different origin. Where is that defined?

 

[=rk=]

For me it's more than just having a plane work in the simulator, it's the learning process on how to converts the aircraft.

You should be aware that there is no way to convert FSX native models, to MSFS native models, without the source code. One can port an FSX native model to work in MSFS, but that model has no more functionality, than a pre FSX model, converted to FSX functionality and then to MSFS functionality. You are redesigning the wheel, hoping to achieve lift.

I know this, because I have an identical situation, with my own FSX airplane, that I do not have the source for. I converted it from another plane, which I had permission for and changed the model so much as to make it uniquely distinct from the original. I did this using MCX, by deleting components with the Hierarchy Editor, constructing those parts and then merging them with the original .mdl. I have a unique model which is my own, but it will not be native MSFS, until I reconstruct the entire model.

 

[tgibson]

I have done several aircraft where I used a copy of the still prop as the slow prop. Just make a copy of the MDL file and rename it. Then in MCX give it the correct slow animation/visibility after merging them.

A few questions first.

What happens to the imported FS9 model when you move the animation slider in MCX? Do the props and prop disk actually rotate?

When you import the converted FSX model do the props and disk still rotate?

 

[Jonathan Lueb]

You should be aware that there is no way to convert FSX native models, to MSFS native models, without the source code.

Thanks Rick, for the insight. It's very helpful to learn from the experts!

 

[Jonathan Lueb]

What happens to the imported FS9 model when you move the animation slider in MCX? Do the props and prop disk actually rotate?

When you import the converted FSX model do the props and disk still rotate?

Tom, both the FS2004 model and the FSX model function 100% correctly within MCX. All animations are perfect within the converter. It's in the simulator that they don't.
Initially before I learned the rotation issue within the cfg file, I would see the slow still props rock substantially, I don't thin you could really call it rotation. When adding power there would be no change, they would just rock. Once I corrected the rotation that's when it would basically jump from still to disk, at this point the rocking is substantially less and only around the change of state, otherwise it's just a static image.

 

[tgibson]

Have you tried importing your converted model back into MCX and then Exporting it again?

 

[Jonathan Lueb]

Thanks again guys for all the input.
Maybe you can clarify some things for me.
Yes, Tom I had already done the import export thing many times. And in general I think most of what I'm trying to accomplish is working, but maybe I'm expecting something that I'm not supposed to.
Like I said before it changes from the still/slow props to the blurred props. When I look at fs2004 aircraft and the default fsx aircraft there is clear animation going on with the props. I actually see movement of the props or disk that give a sense of rotation. I have tried another fs2004 conversion, with the same results. I can get the other animations to work correctly, but the props show a still state, then an extremely brief slow state where the props start to rotate and then jump immediately to the static blurred disk. Yes it's a blurred disk and it looks like the props are "rotating" but it's static, I do not get the animation effect I'm used to with other aircraft. So my first question is....
Is this what I'm supposed to expect from an FS2004 conversion, or am I supposed to see an animation effect of the blurred prop disk?
My second question is...
Is there a specific reason why I have to import and export the model? Yes, I understand that every time I do that it does seem to have a different impact on the animations. So, maybe my question should be is this an intentional part of the conversion process or just a random either it works or it doesn't? If intentional, is there a specific process I can understand which happens each time I re-import and export?
My final question is, is still related to animation but it seems to be an inconsistency. I had all the control surfaces working but now they go positive correctly but when I go max negative they pop back to neutral. I have read other threads on this issue and I have tried all the other presented solutions (changing which animations they use, and modifying the modeldef file) but nothing seems to help at this point, even though sometimes I have had them working. What causes this issue?

 

[tgibson]

1. No, my conversions have the same prop animations as in the original FS2004 models.
2. The import/export procedure is a workaround for a bug in the FS2004 conversion process. If the animations are not properly attached to parent objects, the animations fail. This import/export process often fixes this.
3, I don't know any more than those threads say.

 

[Jonathan Lueb]

Okay, everything seems to be working now. Thank you all for you help! I would like to share some of the things that I figured out with a lot of trial and error.
1. Make sure you ALWAYS use Tom's latest ONLINE document to do the conversion. (http://www.calclassic.com/convert_tutorial/index.html) He does a great job of adding additional notes as they are discovered to clarify issues you might be having. Thanks, Tom!
2. DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE THE PDF VERSION that is floating around on this site. It does not work if you follow that document. (In fact it would be nice if that could be deleted from this website.) You cannot save the file in an FSX format and then add the prop animations later which the document describes. You must merge the separately saved prop animations (Slow and Blurred) to the original FS2004 you imported prior to saving it as an FSX model. (Or, at least it did not work for me.)
3. If you don't seem to be able to get the prop animations to work, whatever you try, then try using a different SDK (with different modeldef.xml), and a different XtoMDL.exe. I was using the FSX deluxe Acceleration SDK and nothing seemed to work. So I then installed the P3D 1.4 version SDK available on this website and mentioned in Tom's document.
Once I stopped doing it the way I had originally found in the PDF, and followed the online document things began to fall into place. And once I decided to change which modeldef.xml and XtoMDL.exe to use, all of us sudden the props started animating correctly.
4. As was pointed out above, and Tom has added to the document, the Rotation value in the aircraft.cfg file is important, to have set correctly, or removed completely.
5. Additionally I had a flaps issue on one of the aircraft I converted, which would not function, no matter what I did. I found out it was defined as a hydraulic system (system_type= 1) in the aircraft.cfg file, which was clearly not modelled in that aircraft. Once I defined it as an electrical system (system_type= 0), it worked perfectly.

There is one final thing someone might be able to enlighten me on (Rick Keller?), If I have a light effect attached behind a transparent piece of glass it doesn't seem to shine through the glass even though the glass is transparent. I used the settings as described in Tom's document. I have to move them in front of the transparent surface. Is there a setting I could change, or different transparency settings I could use in the material editor, to make them function behind the glass? I have some landing lights that are behind glass in the nose of the aircraft. The effect on the ground is ok, but looking at the light itself it doesn't seem to be on.

Thanks again for all your input! I have enjoyed the learning experience and I hope to convert a couple more aircraft just to get the process solidified in my mind.