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Scenery Claimed

OLBA_1.jpg


Hello guys,

I have released OLBA at Simmarket last week. But, after that Simmarket hold the scenery due Leborsim claimed the scenery as their model / modify the model.

So, they complained to Simmarket before make some investigation about this issue. You can do it like that?

I've sent the Gmax file to them to prove it that I'm made this airport from scratch.

They said I've used/modified all their model and texture to make this scenery because they are (Local Lebanon). Much more know about their airport.

The question it's, Malaysian like me can't do this OLBA? I have a friend (from Jordan) that provided me more images for OLBA during his visit.

I have done an airport from Canada/Japan/Australia etc..should I go to the airport then can make the scenery? I've made the airport with local friends that provided images/charts.

Do we need a blueprint to develop the airport? I think, most of scenery developers don't use it. Base on images, we can assume the size of the airport.

I have done OBBI, YPPH and another airports. If someone do the same airport, can I claim it they use my model? It's happened to me. That's nonsense.

As we saw in FS world, there are some developers that created the same airport without any issue / copyright each others. Good competition without any problem.

Lastly, how to avoid claiming issue if we build the same airport with other developer?

Thanks guys

Syamsani - MFSG
 

jtanabodee

Resource contributor
This is the first time I heard about this.
After I started makine ZBAA, I took too much time and someone developed the same airport and finished that before me. I thought that this thing might happen. So, I often post my project to FB or FSdeveloper to prove the time at I start my project. I think the most important thing to prove that is yours: the FB post or the thread here in FSdeveloper.com. Since there is a time stamp for any posts. Gmax models only is not the prove. We can extract the model from Bgl file using MCX and extract texture as well. It happened to me once that someone confused my projet with another. I put my link to them that I posted this one long before the other guy do their project.
Hope you can get through this.
 
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Hi Tic,

I'm already sent the evidence to them include my GMAX files. Some part may looks like a same BUT not same. I've made it from the scratch for 3 month.
The Simmarket only release back OLBA after Leborsim agree with my answer. The problem is, Leborsim still not satisfied with my evidence.
Here the some evidence.
I have reduced the quality of the images to avoid them to re-use the image.
report and feedback

This is a first time I'm encounter this issue with Leborsim. Hope, others developer will not enconter the same issue. Be prepared for any possibility.

I'm from Malaysia and already made WMKK in 2011. You are developed WMKK and it's up to you to build any scenery. This is a Flightsim coummunity and developer can make any scenery without any issue. But this issue it's happen to me in Lebanon.
We are from Malaysia appreciate with your WMKK. Malaysia and Thailand just a boarder.

If you are remember, I have sent the question to you about IK bone for WMKK train, long time ago.
 

jtanabodee

Resource contributor
Hi Tic,

I'm already sent the evidence to them include my GMAX files. Some part may looks like a same BUT not same. I've made it from the scratch for 3 month.
The Simmarket only release back OLBA after Leborsim agree with my answer. The problem is, Leborsim still not satisfied with my evidence.
Here the some evidence.
I have reduced the quality of the images to avoid them to re-use the image.
report and feedback

This is a first time I'm encounter this issue with Leborsim. Hope, others developer will not enconter the same issue. Be prepared for any possibility.

I'm from Malaysia and already made WMKK in 2011. You are developed WMKK and it's up to you to build any scenery. This is a Flightsim coummunity and developer can make any scenery without any issue. But this issue it's happen to me in Lebanon.
We are from Malaysia appreciate with your WMKK. Malaysia and Thailand just a boarder.

If you are remember, I have sent the question to you about IK bone for WMKK train, long time ago.
I didn't know that you were developing WMKK as well.
I got a message from China that I shouldn't develop their capital airport. He said it was the procession of China, Chinese would develop that by their own.
There is no copyright, anyone can develop any airport that he likes.
 
I got a message from China that I shouldn't develop their capital airport. He said it was the procession of China, Chinese would develop that by their own.
That's the weirdest thing ever... I didn't know people cared about who developed what airport that much.

About the OP: I don't think any two models can be exact like that so if you send them the GMAX file it should be easy to compare. I personally developed my home airport without going there for about 2 years. I used mostly pictures and videos I found on the internet to make it. That's nobody's problem as long as the result is good.
 
Leborsim really want to conquer Lebanon, their country. At the same time, I'm create OLBA requested from Arabian simmer but did not notice the problem will coming.

Here the shot from Simmarket, they are REALLY GET A FULL ACCESS to the airport. Also complain that we are USED / Modified their model and texture before make the research.
screenshot247.jpg


After some research, they not found their model were used in my gmax and scenery. Then, accused me to used their model to start make the airport? What a nonsense!
screenshot248.jpg


I'm already made some of airport that not develop in FS. So, how I get it started?

For example, if the airport's roof is square, should I make it a triangle? (to avoid the similarity from other developer)

I've also sent my GMAX file to them for investigation. That's would be any possibility if they will use my model?

Developer should have a FREE space to develop any airport in any country. It can't be controlled by the Local Developer.

Please be careful when create an airport from other country. You "may" get a trouble and all your time and money are wasted.
 

Md Alavi

Resource contributor
Leborsim really want to conquer Lebanon, their country. At the same time, I'm create OLBA requested from Arabian simmer but did not notice the problem will coming.

Here the shot from Simmarket, they are REALLY GET A FULL ACCESS to the airport. Also complain that we are USED / Modified their model and texture before make the research.
View attachment 63816

After some research, they not found their model were used in my gmax and scenery. Then, accused me to used their model to start make the airport? What a nonsense!
View attachment 63817

I'm already made some of airport that not develop in FS. So, how I get it started?

For example, if the airport's roof is square, should I make it a triangle? (to avoid the similarity from other developer)

I've also sent my GMAX file to them for investigation. That's would be any possibility if they will use my model?

Developer should have a FREE space to develop any airport in any country. It can't be controlled by the Local Developer.

Please be careful when create an airport from other country. You "may" get a trouble and all your time and money are wasted.
Not asking anything related to this thread, but just want to know, is the static aircraft you have in you project modelled by your self or licenced by a third party developer?
 
Leborsim == Ricobrac it seems. I would guess that what the OP is seeking is for some independent dev here to review his scenery vs Leborsim and lend their credibility to convincing Simmarket that Leborsim's claim is invalid.
Spot on explanation. I really do hope someone here can help MFSG out with this asap!

It's unfortunate that our community has a few people who have negative disposition :(

Fingers crossed for Syamsani to get his work back online!

All the best Syamsani!
 

Vitus

Resource contributor
Here's my understanding of Copyright and Trademark. Mind you, I'm not a lawyer, this constitutes in no way legal advice, it's merely my personal opinion.


Generally speaking, the only one who can ever claim a copyright infringement is the holder of the copyright. If you're creating a 3d asset, you hold copyright to that asset, even if you took inspiration from some other real-world object. That means, as long as you created all the 3d assets yourself, YOU are the one who holds the copyright of those assets. There's few exceptions to this rule, one is if there is a "registered design" involved, but I really don't know how common that actually is. For buildings and such, it's almost certain that nothing of that kind is registered, so you're free to artisticly interpret a building's design at your leisure.

The claim that "we have permission to do this airport", or "we did this first", or "it's a Chinese airport, therefore only Chinese are allowed to do this", is blatant horsesh*t. YOU created the 3d assets, YOU are the copyright holder, end of story.

The ONLY right that you may be infringing on is that of trademark - namely the trademark of the name of the airport. But the only party that has a claim on that trademark would be the organization that runs the real world airport in the first place. So the only entity that can make that claim would be the organization that legally holds the claim.

That means, if some flight sim developer has signed an exclusive deal to use the trademarks of an airport - let's say name and logo - he is not in the position to actually enforce that on 3rd parties. Instead, it's the responsibility of the trademark holder to go after anyone who is infringing that trademark. The only thing the flightsim developer could do in this case is to notify the airport: "hey, party X is violating your trademark, to which I should have exclusive rights to.", and then the airport would be obligated to go after the infringing developer.
 
Hi,

A real story: A few years ago, a developer on www.pilote-vituel.com started developing a plane of Dassault System (model Rafale).
Dassault System being a registered name, the aircraft could never be marketed under that name but the author got around it by naming it differently and making no reference to Dassault.
 
Is it even possible to reverse-engineer the compiled gamefiles into a Gmax model? If you have the gmax models I don't see how they can still think you copied them.
 
Is it even possible to reverse-engineer the compiled gamefiles into a Gmax model? If you have the gmax models I don't see how they can still think you copied them.
Comparing two models should be the easiest thing ever as long as they're not just boxes! They should have some differences. I think both parties can show us their wireframes models in the same angles and we could help them.
 

jtanabodee

Resource contributor
how to avoid claiming issue if we build the same airport with other developer?

As I said before, the most strong evidence is posting the project here in FSdeveloper.com or facebook. It has a time stamp on it. How can one steal models to develop another same airport before it was born? Come on! This is not Back to the Future movie.

To be honest, the Gmax model is not a strong evidence. They can say that MCX is capable of reverting their bgl files to get the models and modify it after that to make it not totally 100% resemble to theirs.

So, I would recommend any developers to post their scene of the airports/ aircrafts here, fsdeveloper.com, once you have started the project. It is the most strong evidence. If that happens before the other group release their scenery or aircraft, it is impossible to get the models/textures before release date.
 
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The real problem is that the other party has made abstract claims of theft. They claim that there are things about the airport you couldn't possibly know about, without providing any actual examples of said things. For SimMarket to accept a drastically abstract accusation as a solid claim of theft is troubling, to say the least. There is no way to prove the other party's claim to be invalid because you don't know exactly what your model has that they claim is theirs. The 3D model itself would be nigh impossible to prove one way or the other. Not without a third party being provided physical access to both development computers to do a deep digital investigation of the files and the software utilized.
I would point out to SimMarket that the claim is abstract and can not be either proven nor disproven because of it. Without something rather specific to prove their point... the other party is not providing any evidence to prove their claim. If they fail to prove their claim, it can not stand alone. And, no, like I said above... the 3D model alone isn't enough... not without a detailed forensic analysis of both development computers.
 

christopherbritton

Resource contributor
Comparing two models should be the easiest thing ever as long as they're not just boxes! They should have some differences. I think both parties can show us their wireframes models in the same angles and we could help them.
Even if they are just boxes, the likeliness that the boxes have the exact same dimensions is unlikely, so there should always be some form of proof.
 

DragonflightDesign

Resource contributor
That means, if some flight sim developer has signed an exclusive deal to use the trademarks of an airport - let's say name and logo - he is not in the position to actually enforce that on 3rd parties. Instead, it's the responsibility of the trademark holder to go after anyone who is infringing that trademark. The only thing the flightsim developer could do in this case is to notify the airport: "hey, party X is violating your trademark, to which I should have exclusive rights to.", and then the airport would be obligated to go after the infringing developer.
Who remembers the Papa Tango saga?
 
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