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Strange default terrain

Messages
311
Country
australia
Quite by accident I found sound very strange default FSX terrain close to Vancouver International (CYVR) airport IN the ocean just off the coast. Looking at Google Earth this does not exist.
I thought it was coming from scenery I have added so I disabled all ADDON scenery in the scenery library but it is still there. I then had a look on my old backup PC which has FSX installed and NOTHING else. It exists there too.
I have attached a screen shot tekn from satellite view and the area is just north of Vancouver International Airport and west of Vancouver Harbor close the the coast.
Could someone check if their FSX installation also shows this abnormality and suggest what could cause it.
I have circled in red the two weird objects in the ocean.

VANCOUVER STRANGE.jpg
 
Hi John:

The Geographical extents of the area in question is covered by these FSX default BGL files:

[FSX install path]\Scenery\0101\scenery\dem0101.bgl (default terrain mesh)

[FSX install path]\Scenery\0101\scenery\CVX1514.bgl (default vector objects)


I suggest:

1.) Load the above default files into FSX SDK TMFViewer

2.) TMFViewer > Jump > Lat Long... coordinates: LAT: 49.297375, LON: -123.157410

3.) TMFViewer > View > LOD Grid: 12 (terrain grid 'quad' size)

4.) TMFViewer > View > QMID Grid: 11 (terrain grid 'quad' size)


'Jump' to the local coordinates, 'Zoom' in/out with +/- keys, then move the mouse cursor over areas in question; note elevation "Value" in Meters MSL on the bottom status bar.

I believe you will see that the default terrain mesh shows only a -1 Meter deviation from 0 Meters MSL


IMHO, this raises questions as to whether you have an issue with a custom terrain mesh and/or a default or custom CVX vector BGL. ;)


If you right-click any of the diagonal or other light gray lines over-lying the rectangular gridded water areas, you will see that both GPS and other non GPS Hydro Polys were used within that area in various sizes / shapes, and with varying GUIDs.


Have you used any "Exclude Specific CVX vector GUID", CVX vector-type excludes, or have you used SHP2VEC to compile any replacement CVX vector scenery content BGLs with AddToCells=False within- or overlying- the Geographic extents for that area ? :scratchch


Perhaps some of Jim Robinson's ideas on working with shorelines might merit review: :idea:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/adjusting-only-part-of-island-coastline.434472/


PS: If you need to "Exclude Specific" Hydro Poly GUIDs for 'identified vector features' in FSX SDK TMFViewer to "Exclude and Replace" default FSX CVX vector scenery content in that area, you may wish to also refer to these FSX / ESP SDK references:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc707102.aspx#TheShp2VecTool

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526968.aspx


[EDITED]

PS: More details may be discerned on Altitude and/or Slope assigned to FSX CVX vector scenery objects in:

[FSX install path]\Scenery\0101\scenery\CVX1514.bgl (default vector objects)


...by de-compiling that file in Patrick Germain's CVXExtractor with output of ESRI Shape (aka "SHP") files:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/cvxextractor-exporting-vector-data.432918/


...then 'Appending' all resulting ESRI *.SHP files to a new (empty) project in SBuilderX.

cvx1514_all_esri_shp_sbuilderx-jpg.36163



Select / Right-click vector polygons in SBuilderX to see assigned Altitude / Slope values on the "Properties" dialog [General] tab. :pushpin:



FYI
: Apparently some Hydro polys are being used to create sloped water between the outer and inner harbor, as well as within the outer harbor areas of the Burrard Inlet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burrard_Inlet


1024px-Burrard-Inlet-map-en.svg.png



AFAIK, you will require perfectly 'flat' water for AI seaplanes and boat traffic to work properly. :alert:


IMHO, this is a complex area to modify if one wishes to 'exclude-and-replace' both FSX default and other 3rd party add-on scenery. :yikes:


However, Holger Sandmann has successfully modified this area in both FS9 and FSX, so perhaps he might be inclined to offer some helpful suggestions regarding whether and/or how to approach modifications to FSX scenery at this location. :teacher:

[END_EDIT]


GaryGB
 

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Thanks Gary for most informative reply which I have yet to read s l o w l y to try and make sense and understand.

I am assuming that you don't see the terrain in my screen shot?

Remembering a little about what I learned about how the surface of earth is divided up into blocks/squares or whatever they are called (sorry can't remember) those areas of incorrect terrain appear look like the edges of some of those 'blocks' but what is causing them.

I developed a water runway including islands in a nearby area (Sechelt - Porpoise Bay) using Airport Design Editor which required also creating files using SBuilder X for the water polygons (cvx file) to create missing islands off the coast. HOWEVER after I found this strange terrain I removed every .bgl file I had created from the ADDON scenery folder and they still appear.
Did you state that you also see this odd terrain, sorry I haven't had time to do any more than skip through your reply.

I have AI aircraft and boat traffic working nicely at my water airport at Sechelt where I used 'exclude' polygons and water polygons.

Later on (I have to go out right now) I will go through what you have typed in.

Thanks again
 
Hi John:

I do not see the strips of Land Class texture popping up through the underlying Hydro polys, and this is most likely because I allowed the "Modified Terrain.Cfg" file to be substituted for the default Terrain.Cfg when I installed SBuilderX.


That "Modified Terrain.Cfg" prevents strips of Land Class texture popping up through the underlying Hydro polys when there is an abrupt change of elevation in the local terrain surface.


As explained above, the FSX default terrain mesh is not the cause of the elevated and/or un-level (Water Class / Hydro poly) terrain surface, but rather, it is the assigned Altitude / Slope in the Hydro polys which is the basis for what is seen in the anomalous area cited in your OP. ;)

Those Hydro polys must be either forcefully flattened, or excluded and replaced by level Hydro polys at 0 Meters MSL. :pushpin:


Do you still have SBuilderX installed on your computer ?

If so, did you not allow the "Modified Terrain.Cfg" file to be substituted for the default Terrain.Cfg when you installed SBuilderX ? :scratchch

GaryGB
 
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Hello Gary

No I don't have SBuilderX installed. Since I had to reformat and reinstall everything I have had no reason to use it.
I have though reinstalled Airport Design Editor (latest version) and rebuilt my water airport and installed that HOWEVER the strips of Land Class texture also show on my old slow PC and I have never installed SBuilderX on that PC.
I decided to reinstall SBuilderX and have a look to see if I was changing any 'tiles' which would effect the scenery at Vancouver. At first it wouldn't run but after looking at a Youtube video tutorial I found that it must be installed in it's own directory/folder and not Program Files (x86) as is the default.
I seem to remember having the same trouble last time (a few years ago) but had forgotten. That's a real trap and you would think that documentation (which I couldn't find) would point that out or the software have its own installer.
Well I loaded my 'sbm' file but the two 'water tiles' I changed (to change the coastline and create the islands) are well north of the area where the Land Class texture is popping up.

When I installed SBuilderX I allowed the "Modified Terrain.Cfg" file to be substituted for the default Terrain.Cfg and I think I also did the first time I installed SBX a couple of years ago but maybe I should now recompile my scenery?

ADDED LATER
Well this is very odd. I just went into FSX and 'slew' to the saem area and now I can't see that land class 'poking through' the ocean. I couldn't believe my eyes so closed down FSX and went back and its gone.
I have done nothing apart from removing all scenery added to ADDON SCENERY and then moved it back.
Maybe the modifed Terrain.cfg fixed it - I am assuming this is an FSX file - sorry I've been too busy today to read everything in detail and take lots of notice.
 
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Hi JOhn:

Indeed, installation of the "Modified Terrain.Cfg" is responsible for the fact that you "can't see that land class 'poking through' the ocean", and this would only have been enabled after subsequently re-starting FSX. ;)

However, the un-level Hydro surfaces will likely all still be present, as this scenario has only changed the way textures display when there is an abrupt variation in local terrain (water) slope.

Hopefully this makes the area more visually tolerable for you to fly over. :)


PS: If you are interested in seeing this area in its fully glory, you could save yourself a lot of challenging work by acquiring one of Holgers payware sceneries for the region and more specifically, for Vancouver itself. :idea:


Happy Flying ! :cool:

GaryGB
 
Thanks Gary

I wasn't sure as when I checked terrain.cfg file the modified date had not changed or are there diffeernt files (I can't remember exactly what was displayed the first time I ran SBuilderX after installing it.

Wow how quickly I have forgotten how to use SBuilderX - I haven't used it for a long time.
I have even forgotten how to use satellite images (please remind me or show me a link) even after googling. I have downloaded the latest .dll file and copied it to the TILES folder but can't remember exactly how to display the satellite image in SBuilderX. I was going to say "I must be getting old" and then remembered I am :(
 
Thanks again Gary,

There is a lot to learn (again) and I am now starting to remember that you can't necessarily use intuition with SBX.
I opened a new project and then zoomed out as far as I could and I see a Google Satellite image of the earth but cannot work out how to center that map so that I can zoom in at a particular part of the world and I remember not being able to work that out years ago when I first started using SBK and something else is coming to mind is that there is no user guide.
I didn't think that I needed to edit the INI file to set co-ordinates.
I have tried using left mouse click and right mouse click and clicking on CENTRE all without success.
I also changed the co-ordinates in the [MAIN] section of the INI file and it still shows the earth image at the same spot.
Intuition doesn't seem to help with SBX.

Also no matter what I try I cannot stop SBX from going to the TOOLS folder in its own directory when I click on OPEN PROJECT. All my projects are elsewhere and it's annoying having to continually navigate to the folder where they are. I even tried editing the INI file and then it changes back for no apparent reason.

Has anyone created even a basic user guide yet?
 
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Hi John:

* What version of Windows are you running (ex: 7, 8.x, 10; 32-Bit or 64-Bit) ?


* Are you certain that you put the proper 32-Bit (aka "x86") or 64-Bit tile server DLLs (and/or any new or 'updated' DLLs) into: ?

[SBuilderX install path]\Tiles\ sub-folder root location


* What is the folder path on your hard drive that you have installed SBuilderX into ?


* Are you running SBuilderX with Administrator file / folder permissions (aka "Run as Administrator") ?


* Did you install an updated FSUIPC DLL Module appropriate for your version of FSX / P3D ?


GaryGB
 
Thanks again Gary

Before I give you the details I think that after watching another Youtube tutorial I have it.
I see that you need to set the co-ordinates where you want to be in via VIEW > Go To Position. I don't know how I missed that before.

Also when I zoom in now the screen does not go white.

Here are the details anyway.


Windows 7 Home 64 bit

I use the tile server DLL from the folder named SBuilderX_x64 which I understand is the 64 bit version - that is if the other folder (SBuilderX_x86) refers to the fact that the (windows) Program Files (x86) is where 32 bit program are stored (according to what I read on the internet anyway).

The path to where SBX is installed is C:/SBuilderX313 which according to a Youtube tutorial is where it should be (NOT in Program Files (x86)

I have tried running SBX with and without Administrator rights

FSUIPC? I just ran the installer from FSUIPC version 4.6 and followed whatever prompts there were.

BTW I tried the latest server dll (GoogleServer_api3.dll) which causes SBX to crash.

I can get a map of the world display when I select VIEW > Show Background but when I zoom in the map disappears. It also makes no difference which server I set up in preferences.
 
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Hi John:

SBuilderX 3.13 is a 32-Bit version, and requires use of the 32-Bit version of all tile server DLLs.

SBuilderX 3.13 32-Bit is a solid version to use, though I would recommend instead that you install the SBuilderX 3.14 64-Bit version from the "complete package" ZIP cited in Ed's "Google server" thread linked above:

[EDITED]

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/new-google-server.440569/#post-776882


CAVEAT: You must re-install SBuilderX version 3.14 64-Bit into Windows-7 to an empty folder from the "complete package" ZIP file that rhumbaflappy posted, then re-installing all the most recent (64-Bit) tile server updates I linked to above into that new [SBuilderX v3.14 (64-Bit) install path]\Tiles sub-folder:


SBuilderX "complete package" download URL: https://onedrive.live.com/download?resid=F3950C5BBD2BCFA1!805

rhumbaflappy said:
http://www.ptsim.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=2315

Hi all.

Until Luis returns from sailing, I'm going to make available a zip file of a complete SBuilderX314 folder. It contains everything. Just unzip it to the hard drive location of choice, and it should run on any 64-bit Windows7 or Windows8. Make a shortcut of the SBuilderX.exe and place that on your desktop, if you like.

When Luis returns, he'll decide if a full 314 installer is a good option, and I'll remove this zip from the cloud.
rhumbaflappy said:

This should end installation problems a few users are still having.

Here's the link:

https://onedrive.live.com/download?resid=F3950C5BBD2BCFA1!805

Dick


CAVEAT: This is a 'complete and self-contained' version of SBuilderX 3.14 64-Bit.

DO NOT INSTALL (aka "Un-ZIP") THIS INTO ANY FOLDER ALREADY CONTAINING OTHER FILES, AND DO NOT INSTALL IT INTO AN EXISTING SBuilderX FOLDER CHAIN.


Some notes on configuring that new install of SBuilderX v3.14 from Dick's "complete package" zip file:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/sbuilderx-recognition-problem.431803/#post-687842


[END_EDIT]


NOTE: SBuilderX 3.14 64-Bit requires use of the 64-Bit version of all tile server DLLs.

Let me know how the change of tile server DLLs and/or a separate installation of SBuilderX version 3.14 64-Bit works for you. :)

GaryGB
 
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Thanks Gary,

But here we go again (with lack of documentation).
At www.ptsim.com on the download link it states "get the LATEST version (3.13) here"
Why isn't 3.14under downloads on the authors website? I Googled 3.14 and found a link (http://www.flightsimulatorpilot.com/fspmain/?p=8891) which then gives the link to http://www.ptsim.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=2306#p7891 which is a post by Luis on his website yet he hasn't added that to his downloads link?

WOW! I downloaded SBX3.14, unpacked it, and copied all the contents to the folder where 3.13 is EXACTLY as is described in the accompanying ReadMe and guess what? SBX now crashes with the error -
Could not load file or assembly 'Tileserver, Version 1.0.0.0 blah blah

SBX was running ok until I did this and now after uninstalling it, deleting the SBX folder on C: drive and reinstalling I am back to the beginning having trouble getting satellite view to work (show background) eg I start a new project, I enter co-ordinates in "Go To Position", then select Show Background and the area for the co-ordinates I entered is now displayed and in fact if I go back to "Go to Position" the coordinates have mysteriously reverted to something else. If I re enter them, click on OK and then open "Go to position" without doing anything else they have once again mysteriously reverted to what they were originally.
Damned annoying. I have never come across a program so frustrating.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Gary,

But here we go again (with lack of documentation).

At www.ptsim.com on the download link it states "get the LATEST version (3.13) here"
Why isn't 3.14under downloads on the authors website? I Googled 3.14 and found a link (http://www.flightsimulatorpilot.com/fspmain/?p=8891) which then gives the link to http://www.ptsim.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=2306#p7891 which is a post by Luis on his website yet he hasn't added that to his downloads link?

WOW! I downloaded SBX3.14, unpacked it, and copied all the contents to the folder where 3.13 is EXACTLY as is described in the accompanying ReadMe and guess what? SBX now crashes with the error -
Could not load file or assembly 'Tileserver, Version 1.0.0.0 blah blah

SBX was running ok until I did this and now after uninstalling it, deleting the SBX folder on C: drive and reinstalling I am back to the beginning having trouble getting satellite view to work (show background).

Damned annoying.

Hi John:

Please see the edits to my latter post above (original post was was sent from a very limited capability "not-so-smart-phone"): :banghead:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/strange-default-terrain.440688/#post-778043

"CAVEAT: You must re-install SBuilderX version 3.14 64-Bit into Windows-7 to an empty folder from the "complete package" ZIP file that rhumbaflappy posted, then re-install all the most recent (64-Bit) tile server updates I linked to above into that new [SBuilderX v3.14 (64-Bit) install path]\Tiles sub-folder".


PS
: Are you running FSX from:

* an out-of-the-box version ex: FSX Deluxe and Acceleration DVDs or FSX Gold DVDs

...or:

* FSX Steam Edition (online only - purchase / download / install)


BTW
: Please note that FSUIPC has been updated numerous times since version 4.6:

http://forum.simflight.com/topic/80977-updated-modules/


Again, let me know how this works for you. :)

GaryGB
 
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I am running FSX Deluxe edition from purchased DVD.
I thought that I would start right from the beginning (again) and try and get just 3.13 working.
I uninstalled SBX and then DELETED the entire folder (remaining after the uninstall) on my C: drive.
I then installed SBX 3.13 again and started it - it rebuilt the files as it does on the first run.
I copied in the latest server dll file (32 bit) and everything appears to be working ok ALTHOUGH -
When I load an existing project and the SHOW BACKGROUND if I attempt to zoom in closer than 'level' 7 ie try and to ZOOM=8 I loose the satellite image. I tried GoogleServer v702 and v722 - the last two which appear for download before GoogleServer api3 which I cannot get to work anyway.
If I use VirtualEarthSatellite server it works ok.

I am wondering if it is a necessity to install 3.14 (64 bit version)?
 
Last edited:
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/strange-default-terrain.440688/#post-778048

I am running FSX Deluxe edition from purchased DVD.
I thought that I would start right from the beginning (again) and try and get just 3.13 working.
I uninstalled SBX and then DELETED the entire folder (remaining after the uninstall) on my C: drive.
I then installed SBX 3.13 again and started it - it rebuilt the files as it does on the first run.
I copied in the latest server dll file (32 bit) and everything appears to be working ok ALTHOUGH -
When I load an existing project and the SHOW BACKGROUND if I attempt to zoom in closer than 'level' 7 ie try and to ZOOM=8 I loose the satellite image. I tried GoogleServer v702 and v722 - the last two which appear for download before GoogleServer api3 which I cannot get to work anyway.
If I use VirtualEarthSatellite server it works ok.


I am wondering if it is a necessity to install 3.14 (64 bit version)?

Hi John:

The symptoms I highlighted in RED in your quote above suggest you 'may' still have an issue with the latest Google tile server(s) working properly in a 32-Bit version of SBuilder.

IMHO, it is impractical to further troubleshoot your latest install of SBuilderX 3.13 32-Bit. :twocents:

But, if you prefer to use the older, more limited SBuilderX 3.13, 32-Bit version it is of course your option to do so.


Perhaps rhumbaflappy might be inclined to see if there is some outstanding compatibility issues with use of: GoogleServer_v722 and/or GoogleServer_api3.zip in SBuilderX 3.13, 32-Bit version ? :scratchch


FYI: Others here that use Windows-10 have opted to use of the same older, more limited SBuilderX 3.13, 32-Bit version:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/setting-up-sbuilderx-on-fsx-steam.439636/#post-767636


The 64-bit version of SBuilderX_v314 does not work right with Windows 10. I have a 32-bit version that works fine with Windows 10. All the tools are in the SBuilderX/Tools folder. All the needed bitmaps are included.

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/sbx314-and-windows-10.434998/

Dick

visit http://www.ludowise.x10host.com/
visit my onedrive files

rhumbaflappy, 6 Sep 2015

rhumbaflappy said:
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/sbx314-and-windows-10.434998/

There seems to be a problem with the 64-bit version of SBuilderX and Windows 10 that prevents the creation of SHP files for vector compilation. There is a 32-bit version that should work with Windows 10. The only loss is that some extra large photoreal projects may not compile.

I have the file on Google Drive:

SBuilderX314x86

Dick

visit my onedrive files
rhumbaflappy, 15 Mar 2017


You are not subject to those same problems because you use Windows-7 64-Bit

But, if you use the older, SBuilderX 3.13, 32-Bit version, you will be subject to issues of limited project size, various feature limitations, and less stability. :alert:


Since my personal available free time is "subject to limitations", before I resume attending to other commitments, I shall encourage you once more to:

1.) Download rhumbaflappy's SBuilderXv3.14 64-Bit "complete package" ZIP file from:

https://onedrive.live.com/download?resid=F3950C5BBD2BCFA1!805


2.) Copy that ZIP file to the root folder of your ex: C: hard drive letter

3.) Un-ZIP preserving "Full" folder structure

4.) Place all desired 64-Bit tile servers released / updated by rhumbaflappy (linked via threads cited above) into:

[SBuilderX install path]\Tiles\ sub-folder root location


5.) Run SBuilderX.exe "as Administrator"


Good Luck ! :wave:

GaryGB
 
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Thanks again Gary especially for hanging in there with me.

After downloading rhumbaflappy's 314 and looking at the contents I find that they are very different from the other 314 download I did (where the docs simply suggested copying the contents to the same folder as where 313 was.

I will later do set 314 up as per your instructions. If I can't get it to work I will revert to 313 as I never experienced any problems with it last year.

Added later
Yeh! Unzipped the 314 and it works. Thanks be to rhumbaflappy for creating the complete installation :)
My you the INI file contains 'paths' which are obviously from rhumbaflappy. I don't know how to contact him to advise eg
[RecentDirs]
SBPDir=
SBXDir=C:\Users\Dick\Desktop\GeoTrace\9035
SHPDir=C:\Users\Dick\Desktop\test shapefiles
SURDir=C:\Users\Dick\Desktop\GeoTrace\potrace
TEXDir=
BMPDir=
OBJDir=
RAWDir=
LIBDir=C:\Users\Dick\Desktop\jfar-vehicles-p3d
KMLDir=

[Objects]
Rwy12Path=C:\MyPrograms\SBuilderX314\Rwy12
MacroAPIPath=C:\MyPrograms\SBuilderX314\API
MacroASDPath=C:\MyPrograms\SBuilderX314\ASD
LibObjectsPath=C:\MyPrograms\SBuilderX314\LibObjects
(the SbuilderX314 subdirectories exist but none of the subdirectories in that subdirectory.

Thanks again

John :wave:
 
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Hi John:

Congratulations on getting SBuilderX 3.14 (64-Bit) up and running with new/updated tile servers.:)

Knowing from your Sechelt Waterdrome project that you may likely work on larger areas of Geographic coverage, I thought it best to actively advocate your use of a more capable version of SBuilderX. ;)

BTW: No need to be concerned over the inherited paths in SBuilder.Ini from Dick's 'complete pacage' ZIP; those "Most Recently Used" path notations are updated internally by SBuilder as it works, for those features which are actually utilized by the end user, and IIUC, are provided as a convenience to the end user by remembering prior paths targeted by browse dialogs for reading / writing files.

Happy Scenery Building ! :cool:

GaryGB
 
Hello Gary

Sorry to (sort of) re open this thread but I have a question which I didn't want to start a new thread for.

Is it possible to startup SBX with an existing file by right clicking on the file and select OPEN WITH?
I have tried and all that SBX does it to open with no project already open.
Not sure if I have a problem or if that's a deficiency with SBX.:(
Thanks
 
Hi John:

Windows' Explorer Shell command "Open With" does not work with SBX files / SBuilderX.exe.

For SBX files, one must Import or Append ...as stated in SBuilderX Menu > Help > File Menu:


Import SBuilderX SBX ... - You can import projects as SBX files. These are simple text files that can be opened in Notepad. Often, it is easier to see project details and find errors in an SBX file. You can also import SBuilder for FS9 SBX files into SBuilderX, that is, projects made for FS 9 can be imported correctly into SBuilderX and compiled for FS X.

Append - You can append different types of files to your project:

sbuilderx-help_file-menu_import_append-jpg.36246


Append-SBuilderX SBX ... - unlike Import SBX above which will replace any existing elements in your project, appending an SBX file will add its elements to those existing in the work space.


Hope this helps ! :)

GaryGB
 

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