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Tutorial: Approach Legtype Definitions and Attached Picture

Jim or Jon, or anyone that may know..

In that amazing tutorial, as you see, there are quite a few waypoints that show up in ADE around NKL. My question is this. It was perfect for a north arrival, but what if I have a southern arrival? I know I can make my own waypoints. But, is there a way to have ADE show MORE than it currently does? I don't know if there are any south...but I would like to see maybe 150 miles or so around the entire NKL area. I can load another airport in the direction I want, but curious if it is possible to have it show without doing that.

Thanks for the info...

- Greg
 
Jim or Jon, or anyone that may know..

In that amazing tutorial, as you see, there are quite a few waypoints that show up in ADE around NKL. My question is this. It was perfect for a north arrival, but what if I have a southern arrival? I know I can make my own waypoints. But, is there a way to have ADE show MORE than it currently does? I don't know if there are any south...but I would like to see maybe 150 miles or so around the entire NKL area. I can load another airport in the direction I want, but curious if it is possible to have it show without doing that.

Thanks for the info...

- Greg

Extending the radius is something we can look at. If you start reading/placing T_waypoints beyound the 60Nm radius limit that ADE uses then expect to do 180 degree turns on approach if you ask ATC for certain Transition Entrances.

Approach in FSX is set for about 60-70Nm from the airport so all Transitions must always be in front of you and not behind you.

There are 2 useless things for any Pilot. The runway behind you and the altitude above you. Add a 3rd one in FSX pertaining to ATC. The Transition entrance point that you have already passed.
 
Thanks again Jim. Makes sense. I wondered if there was an FSX reason behind the limit. You have cleared that up. Guess I'll make a few of my own. :) It just appeared to me that directly north of nkl there are way less than there are to the east and west.. But, maybe this is how it really is. hehe

I have the Cincinnati, St. Louis, New Orleans charts, but darned if I can find them currently. (I had them in a box in my garage, and my kids have messed up all my boxes looking for stuff.)

- Greg
 
Jim,
I have created everything as per your instructions. However, I can NOT get atc to get me on that transition. I call it in the ILS. When ATC gives me instructions, I tell them to wait, and in the list, are all the stupid runways (x-wind.) There is the ILS for 35 as well as visual for 35. But NEVER does ANDAL approach show up. And where I can 'choose transition' in the atc window, it is empty. There is nothing listed there.

Not finding what I have done wrong. I read where you flew it..but I can't. Well, I can, and do, but I listen to ATC bitch at me for 20 minutes telling me to expidite my turn to 155. Bad enough one does it, but in the 5 times I change frequency, they all do it. LOL

- Greg

EDIT: I found when I was adding some new transitions, that I had a bunch of each fix. In other words, there are 2 Andal's listed. There are 2 Stets listed. There are 2 of almost every one listed, however, there are 9 COTOD's listed. Not sure why this happend, but I will play inside the xml and remove all the duplicates...this I know how to do...

RE-EDIT: I found that I had done a "Load Stock Data." This brought in all my area airports and such. VERY handy. It, however, also had the effect of doubling all the Waypoints in the Approach Mode. No biggie. (unless you don't fix it..then you can't compile) In the Approach mode window, I just grabbed and drug one of every waypoint away from its twin and deleted it. All went back to normal on that screen and I got to keep the additional local airport and frequency information that I have been missing.
 
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Greg

I am seeing the same. Will investigate.

Jim..thanks...I hope you caught my edit... I still have 10 COTOD waypoints, even though there is ONLY one actually there. But I was able to delete the other duplicates.. That way my fault for the stock data import.

Still have not figured out why I can't see my transitions listed in the ATC window..

- Greg

ps. feel free to yell at me on any of the chat services if you use any...I am usually around sitting here doing this..lol yes, most of the night, most of the day.. good thing I have employees that go work for me...lol
 
Greg

I am seeing some code runtime issues in FSX that were not there is FS9. I removed your airport and built a simple NKL. The ATC window is capturing code that should not be there and I am researching were the problem is coming from.
 
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Hey Jim, wondering how your progress on this odd issue is coming?

Also, and the reason for this post... What do you think about me creating a totally new airport. Removing the NKL as I would making a new NKL... But, call the airport I am building something else. KHLY or something... Is that even possible? Making a new airport OVER an existing airport with all new data.

Maybe, if I can do this, the information will work correctly...???...???

If this is possible, what must I do to make the old NKL be eliminated from the map, or ever being used or called up (shouldn't be a problem since it is a dead airport essentially...) and then allowing me to build on the same site?

- Greg
 
Greg

I am away for the entire week. On return I will delete the stock NKL and rebuild. In the mean time Delete the 2 RWYs and 4 Start locations. delete the apron that looks like the 04 runway. delete the Tower view if it exist. Drag the ARP south out into the gulf (no more the 30Nm). If you Drag too far FSX will snap it back to the original location.

Save and Compile. NKL is now deleted as best as we can delete it. I plan to generate a preload ARP and see if FSX will move the stock NKL to the North Pole with out a snap back to the original location.

Add a new airport that will place a new ARP at the old location. Build the runways and taxiways with a few parking spots for testing.

This is my plans when I return home next week. My hopes are ATC will only list what is a ILS and what is a visual approach (9/27).
 
I, too, will be away until the 10th. I am off to Paris then Sumy, Ukraine. I leave tomorrow night. So you will beat me back it looks like. I appreciate all the help you are giving to me on this project and this odd problem.

If I have some time today, I'll try what you mentioned, but not sure if I will. Been putting off cleaning house, laundry, and packing....I really gotta quit that.. LOL

- Greg
 
Jim

I played with Greg's NKL a month ago, and tried to delete it. I deleted the entire folder that it is in from the scenery folder. It was still listed in Go To Airport screen. Does ARP info live somewhere else? Greg was trying to get ATC to call NKL by a different name (using EVP). Some things worked, some not.

Bob
 
Jim

I played with Greg's NKL a month ago, and tried to delete it. I deleted the entire folder that it is in from the scenery folder. It was still listed in Go To Airport screen. Does ARP info live somewhere else? Greg was trying to get ATC to call NKL by a different name (using EVP). Some things worked, some not.

Bob

Bob

FS does not allow a complete delete of a airport. The Go To comes from the ARP property or what I call the airport header. The airport header is always read from the APXnnnn.bgl and not from any addon scenery even though the ARP is also in the ADE enhanced airport.

FS requires the Airport Header in the XML as part of the enhanced airport for compiling purposes but is always read back at the APXnnnn.bgl which we call the fallback process.

The only way to completely remove the airport from the Go TO and the GPS receiver is to dismantle the APXnnnn.bgl and remove all the code associated with NKL. This may work based on what other airports are listed in the same APXnnnn.bgl but not recommended since the APXnnnn.bgl is a MS protected file.

If Greg's NKL was for his own personal use then I would say delete NKL from the Stock APXnnnn.bgl. However if it is a airport that is going to be uploaded then the APXnnnn.bgl would also have to be uploaded and MS does not favor that design technique.

Some airports sit on the cusp of the QMID grid as seen with TMF veiwer and that requires dismantling 2 APXnnnn.bgl's. ADE has to read in 2 of every bgl that makes up a airport when the Map Class Mask /objectscenery's overlap into 2 QMID grid's (see KMCF)
 
Thanks, Jim

That explains it. Personaly, I don't alter stock airports (except for parking). More fun to build my own. And with new latest EVP, I don't have to use the FS9 voicepack.

Bob
 
Bob

FS does not allow a complete delete of a airport. The Go To comes from the ARP property or what I call the airport header. The airport header is always read from the APXnnnn.bgl and not from any addon scenery even though the ARP is also in the ADE enhanced airport.

FS requires the Airport Header in the XML as part of the enhanced airport for compiling purposes but is always read back at the APXnnnn.bgl which we call the fallback process.

The only way to completely remove the airport from the Go TO and the GPS receiver is to dismantle the APXnnnn.bgl and remove all the code associated with NKL. This may work based on what other airports are listed in the same APXnnnn.bgl but not recommended since the APXnnnn.bgl is a MS protected file.

If Greg's NKL was for his own personal use then I would say delete NKL from the Stock APXnnnn.bgl. However if it is a airport that is going to be uploaded then the APXnnnn.bgl would also have to be uploaded and MS does not favor that design technique.

Some airports sit on the cusp of the QMID grid as seen with TMF veiwer and that requires dismantling 2 APXnnnn.bgl's. ADE has to read in 2 of every bgl that makes up a airport when the Map Class Mask /objectscenery's overlap into 2 QMID grid's (see KMCF)

Hi all, back from Ukraine!!!!! 4am here in Cincy, but for me, 11am.. LOL Jim, this may actually be an option for me. I do plan on distributing the airport... BUT, since MS has theoretically abandoned FS, do I care what they think...???...??? Hmmmm... I could simply include the modified file with a special note about what it is and why people would NOT want to install it, but also, why it is included. Just an idea.. I understand why this is a bad technique, because now what if another author does the same, then one of the airports isn't correct anymore if someone updates that one..

This, of course, could be eliminated by the use of a server that included all those files, and as one is updated by an author, it is uploaded to that central server. Then if same file is updated again by another author, ....blah blah blah... similar to EVP add-on server of years past if you know what I mean...

Anyways... something for me, and others I guess, to think about. It's a shame they (MS) would use this technique for some airport info....thus making modifications virtually impossible.

- Greg
 
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Greg

Since you have been gone I have done many test on other airports like NKL. When you get back to the norm of everyday life we can discuss the issues that FS has with runway usage as per the ATC window.
 
Great Jim! Looking forward to it. I appreciate your testing and work on this more than you know.

I feel a ton better now after some good sleep, so whenever you are ready..

- Greg
 
A ILS is a precision approach and as per ARINC 424 any transition MUST start at a precision NAVAID such as a WAYPOINT, NDB or VOR. For all other type non-precision approaches a transition can start at a Default or User Added TERMINAL_WAYPOINT.

Jim, I added two DMEArc transitions to the ILS at 6L at CYUL. The chart I used shows the radials emminating from the NDB (ZDV - VALOIS). The approach shows up fine in the GPS; however, ATC does not recognize and provide it as an option. I looked at KLAS 1L as an example and the only difference I see is with the rec. Navaid, which happens to be the LAS VOR at KLAS.

If I add a "fake" VOR on top of ZDV then ATC recognizes the approach. Is there any way to make this approach work with the NDB?
 
If I add a "fake" VOR on top of ZDV then ATC recognizes the approach. Is there any way to make this approach work with the NDB?

Its hit and miss trial and error. Transitions will always show for a ILS in the GPS but ATC in some cases refuses to recognize it. FS by default always adds a GPS approach with the same transition a ILS may have just to be sure it can be selected from the GPS ATC window.

I have added a WAYPOINT on top the NDB if one does not exist and bring the transition off of it for the ILS portion. In some cases this will force the ATC window to see the ILS transition. If you add a WAYPOINT you must open the XML and add it below the </Airport> but before the </FSdata> last line. ADE does not add a WAYPOINT yet but will in a future version. If you do not want to disturb the XML then add a waypoint to a new XML ==>>compiled bgl using the Comp header, WAYPOINT and ending </FSdata>. WAYPOINTs are world owned so keep it out of the airport record. Any WAYPOINT listed in the airport record and FS sees it as a Terminal_Waypoint.

Sometimes FS for whatever reason just refuses to see the new ILS ATC window transition. In that case add it to a GPS or RNAV approach and it will show.
 
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Hey Jim.... is this part of what you learned and want to teach me? I am still waiting for your tutelage...and whenever you have time, I am available... We can do it as messages here, or live on AIM, Yahoo, or MSN, or VNC if you need to show me anything (you can work ON my computer...) so just let me know... Cause none of my approaches show are used at all by ATC. Really damned annoying.

- Greg
 
Jim, thanks for the information. I need to think this through but at least I know I have a couple of options.
 
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