MSFS20 HF2 libraries

[jgarnold]

Thanks for reminding me.

 

[GaryGB]

LOM is the original (full-featured) tool for creating 3D model libraries.

If you want to use custom objects in libraries then don't load them into the project to be read by the User Model Manager. put them directly into a library outside ADE and load that library into the LOM.


Absolutely not. ADE does not and never has created libraries. The library has to be created outside ADE using a tool like MCX. This can then be added to the LOM. BUT that does not load the actual model into ADE but just data about it.

I am somewhat confused here since ADE has always worked by importing the data about a library and nothing has changed. The only technical difference is that models are glTF and not mdl format.

Hi Jon:

I am referring of course, to the original FS9 LOM which had a full feature set for import and export of scenery object libraries.

While the name "Library Object Manager" aka "LOM" was retained as ADE evolved, I understand LOM in ADE works different than FS9 LOM.


AFAIK, this thread seeks to clarify how to place glTF 3D scenery models from a Library that does not itself contain placement code., without that library (containing 3D models) needing to be included in each package where such library objects are to be used.

IIUC, if we are unable to re-use 3D models from a BGL or CGL loaded elsewhere via a package in MSFS' Community folder, MSFS will bloat, startup times increase, and system resource usage will become unmanageable, potentially impacting run time FPS.

The SDK alludes to scenery object libraries as available to MSFS' VFS via either an airport or a POI; ...are these 3D models then geo-locked ?

If not, those libraries may be used elsewhere, and ADE's LOM may serve as a master list of what is 'available' to place via their GUIDs.

But how does one know whether objects in ADE's LOM list are already / still available to use via a package entered in MSFS' VFS ?

How do we avoid redundant glTF 3D model library objects in packages, when we only wish to "Read Once / Write Many" ?


Thanks in advance for your further clarification of this process.

GaryGB

 

[scruffyduck]

I have completely lost the plot of what this is about along with another topic on an almost identical subject. However, as my sanity slips away, I am going to make one last post and I am going to talk about Library Objects and Custom Objects

First the general principle is the same going back to FSX (and probably FS9) although naturally MSFS makes it seem different

Custom Model is added to a single project and built with the project. It SHOULD NEVER be added to a library nor should it ever be used in more than one project. If the custom model looks useful for more than one project then it should be removed from the project and added to a library. The reason is that MSFS makes it easy to use the models in several places with the same GUID. Although this no different than FSX where custom models (mdl files) could be added to multiple projects. The model and the placement data are in the same project

Library Object is added to a library which means it can be used in multiple projects. Libraries should not have placement date in them. That is library objects should not be in the same bgl file as their placement data (OK spare me geo-locking)

object used in single project = Custom Model
object used in multiple projects = Library Object

Now to ADE

Custom Model added to one project please > built in project > managed via the User Model Manager > Placed via Right Click > Add Model Actual Model resides in the project package. Placed in one project

Library Model added to library [some XML amd a bunch of models compiled together] > Built by external tool such as MCX > Managed via the LOM > Placed via Right Click > Add Library Object. Actual Model resides in Object Library Bgl. Placed in many projects

It occurred to me that I should also refer to the term User Model since ADE has a misnamed (soon to be changed) User Model Manager. It's a pretty useless name but I guess it means models made by the user - that is the author and not the function. So a user model can be used as a Custom Model if it is designed for a single project or a Library Object if it goes into a library. I am personally going to stick to Custom and Library from now on

How do you add a model to a library so it can be used in the LOM - not with ADE but with an external tool such as MCX

 

[scruffyduck]

if we are unable to re-use 3D models from a BGL or CGL loaded elsewhere via a package in MSFS' Community folder, MSFS will bloat, startup times increase, and system resource usage will become unmanageable, potentially impacting run time FPS.

That's why we should use libraries

 

[GaryGB]

Hello:

[MSFS SDK 0_14_0_0 install path]\Samples\ ...does not provide a "Simple Scenery Object Library" worked example.


So, in the 'quest' to find an example of how to create a MSFS Library BGL, I found this info:


Sean had asked Arno what his plans were with regard to LibraryCreatorXML:

MSFS20 - Making object library for MSFS.

Is there any plan for library creator being able to make MSFS libraries? Or is there already a way to do this? I see a certain dev already has MSFS objects in a library.

www.fsdeveloper.com

Dick had posted this example using FSX Compatibility Mode:

MSFS20 - FSX objects in MSFS

You can use some FSX objects in MSFS as library objects. I extracted the ANI_grizzly_walk_sm.mdl from FSX' animals.bgl using ModelConverterX, as well as the ANI_grizzly_walk_sm.xml and copied the texture. The key seems to be found in the scene XML file: SCENERY...

www.fsdeveloper.com

IIUC, Dick used MCX' Batch Convert on FSX default source *.BGLs with *.MDLs in FSX Compatibility Mode as output format ?

If so, could we instead use MCX to Batch Convert MSFS *.MDLs in FSX Compatibility Mode to glTF format ?


There appears to be a Scenery Object Library in MSFS that also uses FSX Compatibility Mode, as MCX imports it via "BGLXReader":

[MSFS-2020_Packages install path]\Official\OneStore\fs-base\scenery\Global\Asobo_Props\Asobo_Props.BGL

Perhaps we may use MCX to Batch Convert these MSFS' *.MDLs in FSX Compatibility Mode into glTF format ...like this ?

We'd still need a utility (in lieu of manual coding), to create a folder structure and XML for a non-airport / non-POI package ?


IIUC, *.MDL or *.glTF libraries can be loaded into ADE-LOM, and 'placed' via ADE Work-space > Right Click > Add Library Object ?

GaryGB

 

[jgarnold]

Just to put my "two bob's worth in" (although I did not read everything in the past two or three posts as my head started to hurt )

I too thought that LOM seems 'different' to what it used to be and there now is the UMM (replacing User Models?). I am now wondering is this because the way that MSFS2020 has 'evolved'.

In any case I DO see scenery objects 'distributed' packaged in a .bgl which I guess is a 'library' and that ADE has never able to produce such a .bgl (which can be shared between different projects).

I posted a question on the Model Converter X forum asking if MCX could be used to create an MSFS (scenery objects) library and Arno replied that it can't but also "but you need to use the packager tool that comes with MSFS".

This is named FSPACKAGETOOL and is in MSFS SDL\TOOLS\BIN.
It (seem to be) can only be run in a CMD window (not surprising) and I have found the following YouTube video which I have yet to watch.
MSFS SDK Tutorial - How to build your packages outside of the sim.

I hope this is of help to anyone wanting to create a scenery library that they can distribute.

 

[GaryGB]

Just to put my "two bob's worth in" (although I did not read everything in the past two or three posts as my head started to hurt )

I too thought that LOM seems 'different' to what it used to be and there now is the UMM (replacing User Models?). I am now wondering is this because the way that MSFS2020 has 'evolved'.

In any case I DO see scenery objects 'distributed' packaged in a .bgl which I guess is a 'library' and that ADE has never able to produce such a .bgl (which can be shared between different projects).

I posted a question on the Model Converter X forum asking if MCX could be used to create an MSFS (scenery objects) library and Arno replied that it can't but also "but you need to use the packager tool that comes with MSFS".

This is named FSPACKAGETOOL and is in MSFS SDK\TOOLS\BIN.

It (seem to be) can only be run in a CMD window (not surprising) and I have found the following YouTube video which I have yet to watch.


MSFS SDK Tutorial - How to build your packages outside of the sim.

I hope this is of help to anyone wanting to create a scenery library that they can distribute.

Hi John:

Sorry I overlooked mentioning your pertinent thread cited above, which, BTW ...is here:

Can MCX create scenery library.

I have noticed reference to MSFS in the documentation but can't work out if MCX can create a library for scenery objects for MSFS and if it can then what is the procedure. Is it possible? Are there any video tutorials?

www.fsdeveloper.com

GaryGB

 

[scruffyduck]

This is named FSPACKAGETOOL and is in MSFS SDL\TOOLS\BIN.

This is exactly what ADE uses to build projects.

And at the risk of suggesting y'all read the manual Check section 17 or search for Building Libraries in the online help. www.scruffyduck.org.uk/ade_2020_help

I have not suggested this before since it is an untested fudge but probably works and may break the log jam of this topic

 

[GaryGB]

Many thanks Jon; testing 'fudge' may prove to be a real treat now.

GaryGB

 

[jgarnold]

I have yet to 'wander though' the new online documentation (I hate reading docs online and often print them out and even sometimes have them bound but I can't see a way to print this one)

 

[scruffyduck]

On-line documentation is much easier to keep up to date and ensure everyone is reading the same most up to date information. Try this https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/test-please.453439/

I believe these can be printed if necessary but as I say the documentation is changing rapidly. I am going to maintain the on-line and chm documentation since I can create them both from a single source.

 

[jgarnold]

I fully understand that but I don't think that I can print out from a .chm file.
I guess I possibly know all that I need to know and release notes will keep me up to date with changes.

 

[scruffyduck]

Release notes are being phased out. I can probably generate a pdf of the help Also I have been able to print sections of the chm file using the Print button

 

[jgarnold]

Yes Jon. I should have qualified my response by stating that I can print out sections (selected) but not the entire document.
I have just 'googled' and got some 'hits' including a file CHM2WORD which says its free but when it is run it asks for a 'pin' which is only obtainable if you pay. I hate those programs as they should not list them as free as it only means free to download.
I tried the other hits but they were for earlier versions of Windows and IO came across 'you do not have permission' when attempting to open folders referred to even as an administrator - grrr!

 

[GaryGB]

This is exactly what ADE uses to build projects.

And at the risk of suggesting y'all read the manual Check section 17 or search for Building Libraries in the online help. www.scruffyduck.org.uk/ade_2020_help

View attachment 76385

I have not suggested this before since it is an untested fudge but probably works and may break the log jam of this topic

Hi Jon:

Just a quick heads-up that a direct link to the table of contents (aka "TOC") tree URL for "Building Libraries" now redirects to a 404 page:

https://www.scruffyduck.org.uk/ade_2020_help/Airport Design Editor 2020.html?BuildingLibraries.html

IIRC, this URL linking process was working earlier today, allowing one to open a separate new Tab or Window for a specific ADE TOC topic.

BTW: Opening the TOC as a new Frame, then clicking on the TOC URL for Building Libraries also redirects to a 404 page as above.

This was tested in both FireFox and MS-Edge browsers.


Thanks again for making this helpful ADE learning resource available online as well in CHM format.

GaryGB

 

[scruffyduck]

I am not sure direct links will work. I get the same if I use the url you provide but there are no issues if you use the main url www.scruffyduck.org.uk/ade_2020_help trying to use direct links or any approach other than through this link appears to fail but then why use a direct link?

 

[GaryGB]

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/microsoft-esp/cc707102(v=msdn.10)#the-terrain-systemI am not sure direct links will work. I get the same if I use the url you provide but there are no issues if you use the main url www.scruffyduck.org.uk/ade_2020_help trying to use direct links or any approach other than through this link appears to fail but then why use a direct link?

So we can provide a URL that sends the browser directly to the specific part of the ADE online Help system that we intended to be viewed.


Think of it as my linking direct to post URL (#36) above via FireFox "Copy link location" to post a URL via the forum post editor "Insert link" icon:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/hf2-libraries.453417/post-889276


...rather than my NOT linking direct to post URL (#36) by using Windows clipboard to Copy / Paste a URL to thread page top post in the forum post editor :

MSFS20 - HF2 libraries

Thanks for reminding me.

www.fsdeveloper.com

FYI: The SDK docs from MS FSX / ESP, L-M P3D, and MSFS 2020 all are able to allow direct links without 404 redirects:

ESP SDK Overview

docs.microsoft.com

https://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv5/LearningCenter.php

SDK Documentation

docs.flightsimulator.com

GaryGB

 

[scruffyduck]

Fair enough but the combination of the help generator and the server I have does not seem to allow it. I changed the template to a different one but that produces two table of content panels - nothing in this life is perfect and it really doesn't matter what other help systems do if I don't have the means.

 

[jgarnold]

FYI I can only goto what ever I click on in the index in the online documentation. I can't do that when using the .chm
Mind you that does not worry me as I only wanted the .chm file to try and print it.

 

[scruffyduck]

FYI I can only goto what ever I click on in the index in the online documentation. I can't do that when using the .chm
Mind you that does not worry me as I only wanted the .chm file to try and print it.

Fair enough but the combination of the help generator and the server I have does not seem to allow it. I changed the template to a different one but that produces two table of content panels - nothing in this life is perfect and it really doesn't matter what other help systems do if I don't have the means.

OK - this is operator error. Thanks for pointing it out Gary

Lack of experience with the help authoring tools Direct links should now work http://scruffyduck.org.uk/ade_2020_help/BuildingLibraries.html

The help site is updated but I am fiddling around a few bits and it may be that a couple of the topics refer to HF3 which has not yet been released