ADE and Model (MDL) Files

[Gerald Krutsch]

Hello guys,

I'm working on a project and created some custom MDL files. The idea was to insert the Models into the current ADE project, to be able to place them on the ARP.

Following the steps:
- add Models via Menu -> List -> Models
- place them on the ARP
- compile
I manage to see them in my sim (happy)!

Problem: If I close and reopen ADE, the list of Models is empty and all placed objects appear as black boxes! (unhappy)

I have to add again all the Models and just click once on every black box to "revert" it to a recognized Model....

Any advice?

BR,
Gerald

 

[GHD]

Read the manual. After compiling, save the project.

 

[Gerald Krutsch]

Read the manual. After compiling, save the project.

LOL...I did read the manual and yeah...I am saving the project every time otherwise I would not get the black boxes I placed before.

 

[=rk=]

It is understandable that you would first read the manual, then post here. What is less obvious, Gerald, is that black boxes for model objects is so commonly reported, it stands to reason that it must be covered in the manual. I don't use ADE for object placement, but I believe the problem stems from using successively edited airport .bgl files and not by using successively edited .ad4 files, which is most certainly covered in the manual.

One of the problems, is that compiled airports are composed of many files, this is how the simulator works. If you create an airport with a airport (layout) .bgl, a vector (polygon) .bgl and an object .bgl using ADE and then you use ADE to edit the airport .bgl that is associated with those other .bgls, you would probably end up with a situation of black boxes.

 

[Gerald Krutsch]

It is understandable that you would first read the manual, then post here. What is less obvious, Gerald, is that black boxes for model objects is so commonly reported, it stands to reason that it must be covered in the manual. I don't use ADE for object placement, but I believe the problem stems from using successively edited airport .bgl files and not by using successively edited .ad4 files, which is most certainly covered in the manual.

One of the problems, is that compiled airports are composed of many files, this is how the simulator works. If you create an airport with a airport (layout) .bgl, a vector (polygon) .bgl and an object .bgl using ADE and then you use ADE to edit the airport .bgl that is associated with those other .bgls, you would probably end up with a situation of black boxes.

I started the airport from scratch creating a new project in ADE. I always open the project from the Project menu, not opening the ARP from the created .BGL files (I do have sepparate .BGL for the layout, OBX, CVX, GP and even a "resample" compiled background image with night textures and seasons).

I don't move my .MDL from the folder they were inserted (the paths don't show in red)...

 

[=rk=]

The fact that the ADE file you open has no record of the model placements seems to be the biggest clue.

If I close and reopen ADE, the list of Models is empty and all placed objects appear as black boxes

Granted, you compile that state into the airport .bgl. If you do not actually save the edited ADE file, how would it retain record of the model placements?

 

[Gerald Krutsch]

Compiling the ARP creates only the BGL files. If I don't save the ARP after compiling, I loose all the latest changes. I wrote that I do open the Project file from the list of projects, not from the Open ARP menu.

Ergo: I compile and save the ARP always right after. My working directory shows an up to date .AD4 file with up to date .BAK file and up to date .BGL files.

 

[=rk=]

So you mean say that you are absolutely certain that your save OVERWRITES the previous airport file?

 

[raymk]

Gerald,
I am trying to follow this thread as I am always interested in problems that occur.
Can you confirm that, when you use the term "ARP", you are actually referring to the ADE / .ad4 file? "ARP" is usually used as the "Airfield Reference Point".

 

[Gerald Krutsch]

So you mean say that you are absolutely certain that your save OVERWRITES the previous airport file?

Yes! The time stamp is always updated the moment I press Save Airport!

Gerald,
I am trying to follow this thread as I am always interested in problems that occur.
Can you confirm that, when you use the term "ARP", you are actually referring to the ADE / .ad4 file? "ARP" is usually used as the "Airfield Reference Point".

Sorry Ray for the confusion. With ARP I mean Airport.
So in short:
- choosing Save Airport from ADE's menu will save a new .AD4 file
- compiling the airport will create the .BGL files but NOT save an .AD4 file
- choosing open Airport from . BGL will open that particular .BGL file with lot's of missing objects (because I compile those in separate .BGL) --> THIS IS NOT HOW I OPEN THE PROJECT!
- choosing Project -> Find -> then the project name from the list -> Open will open the .AD4 file

 

[Gerald Krutsch]

So here is what I had to do...

***normal part***
1. Inserted the .MDL Files via Lists -> Models
2. Placed the Models in ADE (at least 1 instance of each Model)
3. Compiled the Project with sepparate xxx_OBJ.BGL file creation.
***abnormal part***
4. Added the newly created xxx_OBJ.BGL file to the Library in ADE via Tools -> Library Object Manager
- from all the contained objects it recognized those added in step 1
5. Saved the project via File -> Save airport
***END***

So to speak I had to "double add" my models (once as model from which I compiled the .BGL, and once as a library object imported from the newly compiled .BGL). I can't find this procedure in the manual and it does not feel right. I don't think it was intended to work like this.

Maybe the Dev can shed a light on this....

BR,
Gerald

 

[scruffyduck]

I am currently travelling so will not be able to check anything until Friday

 

[=rk=]

To me, it looks like you have created a library .bgl and then, in a separate procedure, you compiled placement data to it. In my interpretation, it is not a double procedure at al. We still don't know exactly what you did, because you refuse to allow us anything but your interpretation of what you understand of the software and with no screenshots, no description of your procedure, coded personal abbreviations, we don't even know what simulator you are developing for. We know it doesn't work, or didn't, didn't work the way your interpretation expected it to work. It was really, really difficult to come to my conclusion given the information, but then I got a clue:

because I compile those in separate .BGL

You can have a library .bgl without placement data, for example, the default airport.bgl. Can you see how you would approach an airport with some of your own airport models and with the airport.bgl? Before those models could be used, they would have to be compiled into a library. I bet, thinking back, you never had problems like this using the default scenery objects, hence the "this is not my procedure" declaration. Before your new library can be added to an airport scenery .bgl (not the airport.bgl) it has to be compiled. I can't see how you could possibly add objects from an uncompiled library .bgl to an also uncompiled airport scenery .bgl. ADE may give you the visual impression that somehow a thus far non existent library .bgl can have it's component models placed before it is compiled, but that is not the fault of the developer, nor is it ours and it is not how any versions of the Microsoft flight simulator I am familiar with work.

Understanding of the ADE manual and basic MSFS flight simulator functionality is the responsibility of the end user. Additionally, a support forum is no place for shorthand. You forced a specific post, just for clarification of your personal terminology and if you are not willing to take the time to spell out the difference between airport reference point and airport, you face an even bigger challenge. It seems logical, to me, to over spell words and stuff, to make the task easier for people trying to help you with your problem.

 

[GHD]

So to speak I had to "double add" my models (once as model from which I compiled the .BGL, and once as a library object imported from the newly compiled .BGL). I can't find this procedure in the manual and it does not feel right. I don't think it was intended to work like this.

No, it isn't intended to work like that.

 

[gfxpilot]

stupid question Ger, when you add the models to the ADE models list (file) you are saving that list again arnt you?

(List >>> Models >>>ADD >> and then select MDL - then top right of the BOX is SAVE LOST or RESET) check that you are saving by adding, saving list then close the screen (dont add a model yet) then back through again to check you dearly beloved model is in the listing.

If thats ok ad your saving the Airport make sure that the old once is deleted from its folder dont assume that the save is actually going to overwrite the old Scenery file (In fact I don't actually delete the one in the airport scenery folder I cut it and paste it into a temp folder on the desktop JUST IN CASE Ive made errors and I can put the last saved back in again ).

If Im teaching mother to suck eggs Sorry! - Ive made the errors above myself only to eventually realise and feel a right dipstick

 

[Gerald Krutsch]

Dear Rick,

I apreciate that you want to help me but don't realy understand what exactly do you want?

1.

We still don't know exactly what you did, because you refuse to allow us anything but your interpretation

I don't understand from where did this came from! I replied to every single question or doubt in regard to my doing.

2.

and with no screenshots, no description of your procedure,

What screenshots? I don't get any error messages to post them in a screenshot.
I described step by step what I am clicking in ADE! Perhaps a video would have been way better but your statement is way off.

3.

coded personal abbreviations,

Yes, it was one mistake I have done in using the wrong abreviation for an airport (I appologizued for that). Newertheless if you read that I "compiled the ARP with ADE", you would have guessed that I compiled the Airport and not only its reference point .
But yes, it was a mistake!

4.

we don't even know what simulator you are developing for.

The problem I face is within ADE and has nothing to do with the simulation platform. Newertheless to answer your Q: It is P3Dv4.3!

5.

We know it doesn't work, or didn't, didn't work the way your interpretation expected it to work.

True, that'S why I ask for help.

6.

It was really, really difficult to come to my conclusion given the information, but then I got a clue:

Your clue is pointless and you interpretation of what I wrote is wrong!

When compiling the airport with ADE you can choose either to compile everything in ONE .BGL file (including the objects, ground poly, and so on) or to compile all those in sepparate files which I always do. Thus I always get a sepparate .BGL file for my objects which is called Project_OBJ.BGL! So I did not want to create any Library or else

7.

but that is not the fault of the developer, nor is it ours and it is not how any versions of the Microsoft flight simulator I am familiar with work.

Your statement is again a bit off. I newer said it's any DEV's fault or that the sim is broken. I came here with a problem and asked if I was doing something wrong!

8. In your first post you write:

I don't use ADE for object placement,

Well how would you know what I was doing wrong if you don't use ADE for object placing at all.

Have you tried to open a stock airport, place an .MDL (by the book), save the airport, close and reopen ADE to see if the object (Model) is still there? This would have taken you max. 5 min.

I have a mixed feeling that you realy want to point out that I doing things wrong without even knowing or understanding what I'm actualy doing.

stupid question Ger, when you add the models to the ADE models list (file) you are saving that list again arnt you?

It's not a stupid Q but yes, I did press the "Save List" button.
I also tried every single tip you have gave me.


Best regards,
Gerald

 

[Gerald Krutsch]

I am currently travelling so will not be able to check anything until Friday

Jon, I created a video to show my creation steps in a new project (from scratch)! Maybe it will help you to better understand where I might be missing a step / doing something wrong.

@gfxpilot , @Golf-HotelDelta , @=rk= ; @raymk : Please look at the video above.

Thank you!
BR,
Gerald

 

[=rk=]

Gerald, the idea of the video is very good, but it is not viewable, unfortunately. I am pretty sure that what you created fulfills my request about screenshots. Specifically, there are steps that you may identify one way, that we identify differently. If you record the screen at your time of selection, perhaps it is a drop down, perhaps it is a save dialog, then we can more clearly see what you are trying to explain. As to object placement, I am aware fundamentally that ADE does not actually do any compiling, that the actual functions are performed by proprietary software and since I am familiar with what users of ADE attempt to accomplish, I feel my advice has relevance, perhaps you agree, perhaps not.

Here's an example:

When compiling the airport with ADE you can choose either to compile everything in ONE .BGL file (including the objects, ground poly, and so on) or to compile all those in sepparate files which I always do. Thus I always get a sepparate .BGL file for my objects which is called Project_OBJ.BGL! So I did not want to create any Library or else

This is simply not true. The MSFS will not support a single .bgl containing model objects and ground polygons, not to mention whatever else the "and so on" applies to. Whatever gave you this impression is mistaken and these mistaken assumptions almost certainly lead to errors down the road.

 

[Gerald Krutsch]

This is simply not true. The MSFS will not support a single .bgl containing model objects and ground polygons, not to mention whatever else the "and so on" applies to.

Rick, you again missinterpreted / missunderstood what i said (wrote).

Please qoute the place where I stated that I USE only ONE .BGL file WITHIN the sim! I said that I COMPILE my airport in sepparate .BGL files thus getting more than one .BGL file.

If you record the screen at your time of selection, perhaps it is a drop down, perhaps it is a save dialog, then we can more clearly see what you are trying to explain

If you look at the video, please tell me at which point in my creation a screenshot would have helped! There are no dialogs nor strange messages which could have helped you identifying my problem.
Further more, if you are aquainted with ADE, you have not requested ANY screenshots in any stage of my creation to allow you to pinpoint the missing mouse click. You just came here and started pointing fingers as if I was to blame that you have to spend so many hours in trying to assist me.

Rick, I have only 2 questions left for you. Since you say you know your way with the use of ADE and obviously know the user manual since you pointed me to it:
1. Seeing the video I posted, do you recognize any missing step in the way I used ADE?

If not then Q 2; if yes then Q 3

2. Have you even tried to replicate those steps at your end to see if you get the same results? It might be my PC or the installation that leads to wrong results.

3. Please tell me what I did wrong.

*EDITED* I have to check why the video is not viewable. Missed that point from your first sentence. Have to appologize for that to you Rick!
*EDIT 2* Video should work now. It would have worked before by entering the link on youtube directly. Embedding was disabled, is enabled now meaning it can be seen on Fsdev forum directly.

Thank you

 

[=rk=]

Rick, you again missinterpreted / missunderstood what i said (wrote).

Please qoute the place where I stated that I USE only ONE .BGL file WITHIN the sim! I said that I COMPILE my airport in sepparate .BGL files thus getting more than one .BGL file.

This is becoming an issue of semantics, which unfortunately started this thread, I believe. Without a common understanding, there is little chance of any understanding. My quote about compiling .bgls was intended to illustrate that there is a fundamental difference of understanding between parties here and before any progress can be made in simulator development, a common language would have to be established.

So here is what I had to do...


So to speak I had to "double add" my models (once as model from which I compiled the .BGL, and once as a library object imported from the newly compiled .BGL). I can't find this procedure in the manual and it does not feel right. I don't think it was intended to work like this.

Maybe the Dev can shed a light on this....

Regardless, it looks like you've found your solution, despite the fact that I've had trouble comprehending the messages...so great!