Default Library Object Will NOT Exclude in ADE

[raymk]

Jon,
I have to say that, although your explanation of this situation has been given a few times over the years, this was a timely repeat for the many persons who have only joined this community relatively recently.
This subject sems to come up quite frequently in this Forum so let us hope that your explanation will clarify what goes on in ADE for many more users.
I personally had forgotten the bit relating to OBX files so, hopefully I will remember it if I get into this situation in future.

 

[scruffyduck]

Thanks Ray.

I guess it is worth adding that if the user is trying to create a project from a third party bgl file and there is an OBJ file as part of the addon package then just loading the airport bgl file is not sufficient to get everything in. Excludes and scenery objects will be in the OBJ file. The user will need to try and get that data into the project. There is an option to import a bgl file in the File menu and this can be used to try and get the OBJ data in. I do not recall offhand exactly what will get imported but section 12.1.7 of the pdf manual 1.65 refers to it. It quite rightly warns that this is for experienced users

It is also worth noting that ADE can create several different bgl files for a project and to recover a third party addon it may be necessary to import more than one subsidiary file

ScruffyDuck: Login

 

[GaryGB]

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ct-will-not-exclude-in-ade.456102/post-908514*** WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT THE OBJ FILE NOT OBX. ***

When you create a project from a stock airport ADE automatically creates micro excludes for stock objects. Their location depends on whether the users sets up compile for separate airport and scenery (OBJ). If this option is set then the excludes are located in the OBJ file. If not they are located at the top of the airport bgl file before the airport.

Micro excludes allow users to delete (exclude) stock buildings in a project simply by the user deleting the object in the ADE display.

There are some issues with this for some users. But generally this has been a part of ADE since the early days

• Micro excludes are not visible in the ADE project for the reason given in the next bullet. If they cannot be seen then users may add their own exclusion rectangles which can conflict with micro excludes. You can identify micro excludes with the raw data view.
• User have tended to look at these small excludes and conclude they do not want them or understand them so delete them. This results in stock buildings not being excluded and showing through.

This is a stock airport, and the micro excludes are not visible

View attachment 84557

However, they can be seen in the raw data view

View attachment 84558

They will also appear if the user decompiles a bgl file that contains them and this does cause confusion for users not familiar with them The tendency again is to either move them about or delete them

I hope that helps a bit

Hi Jon:

Sorry to ask for more of your time on this, but in the edits I made today in my post above:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ct-will-not-exclude-in-ade.456102/post-908514

...I must ask whether ADE creates micro-excludes for airport objects loaded from OBX*.BGL files by default ...if ADE loads stock KBHM.


The issue of whether ADE loads airport objects that are contained in a OBX*.BGL is a moot point, as we can see ADE clearly does so.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...howing-up-in-my-airport-addon-for-fsx.456087/


But, please tell us if ADE creates micro-excludes for airport objects loaded from OBX*.BGL files by default ...if ADE loads stock KBHM.


Thanks again for your interesting explanation above on the related info; it is good to learn new things about ADE I had not yet read.


PS: IIRC, there was once posted here, a way to allow 'hidden' micro-excludes to be visualized in the ADE work-space; how can we do this ?


GaryGB

 

[scruffyduck]

OK - OBX* files are stock object files - I am having a brain dead moment. I think the question is whether ADE loads object placement data from the OBX file associated with the APX file containing the stock airport. And also creates micro excludes for them.

The answer is that ADE reads the relevant OBX file when loading a stock airport and also creates a micro exclude where necessary

 

[scruffyduck]

IIRC, there was once posted here, a way to allow 'hidden' micro-excludes to be visualized in the ADE work-space; how can we do this ?

As far as I recall this can be done only by compiling the airport and loading the bgl file back. There may be some way to otherwise display them in the main window but I would need to look at the code

 

[tgibson]

That's what I do - load the compiled BGL file into ADE.

 

[GaryGB]

OK - OBX* files are stock object files - I am having a brain dead moment. I think the question is whether ADE loads object placement data from the OBX file associated with the APX file containing the stock airport. And also creates micro excludes for them.

The answer is that ADE reads the relevant OBX file when loading a stock airport and also creates a micro exclude where necessary

Excellent, thanks for that clarification, Jon.

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

Hi Jon, Gary, and Tom,

I just happened to check here and I've noticed that 8 replies have been made but I never received a notification from FSDeveloper that replies have been made here. So, it's a good thing that I checked in. I don't know why I did not received any notices as I always do and there should have been 8 notices in my e-mail.


To Jon:

*** WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT THE OBJ FILE NOT OBX. ***

I don't understand. Why does the object that I wanted to exclude say OBX?

If this option is set then the excludes are located in the OBJ file. If not they are located at the top of the airport bgl file before the airport.

I don't understand what you mean when you say "at the top of the airport bgl file before the airport."

Micro excludes allow users to delete (exclude) stock buildings in a project simply by the user deleting the object in the ADE display.

So, let me make sure I got this straight. If there is an obj or obx that I want to remove or exclude when I'm in the stock airport, I just simply highlight the object and press "DELETE" and compile it, correct? The reason I didn't use the DELETE is because I've always had the understanding that you never delete an object in an airport stock file. Some would say never delete an object in an airport stock file but you're saying to delete them. When you say delete the object, are you saying to delete them from the stock airport file or from the 3rd party airport file?


Jon, there is one thing I need to mention so that you clearly understand what I'm doing. The airport project I'm working on is a 3rd party airport file. After I've added this project to the Scenery library in FSX, that's when I noticed the default terminal showing through and overlapping the 3rd party file. It was only then that I opened the stock airport file and placed a rectangle exclude within that object, which says OBX, thinking that would get rid of the default terminal. At first, I only placed the exclude in the stock but the default terminal still showed through. So, I got to thinking that I must place the exclude in my 3rd party airport project file and not the stock. Everything seem to work from that point but there times it would show up again when I re-compile the file again. So, I Just wanted to add this so that everything is clear.

Ken.

 

[tgibson]

They are telling you not to change the stock airport file. Those are named APXnnnnn, typically. But when you use ADE and open a stock airport, edit it, and then compile it, you are NOT changing the stock APXnnnnnn file, you are creating a NEW airport file with a name like XXX_ADE_XX. So you have not modified the stock airport.

Normally you would place your exclude into your 3rd party airport file, so you are doing that correctly.

 

[scruffyduck]

Ken

I started again from scratch using the zipped package you posted. By scratch I mean that I am parking all the conversation up to this point

This airport is made up of a number of bgl files. One contains the airport, others contain exclusion and yet others contain model data. The AF2 bgl file contains the basic airport and being created by AFCAD2 (very old) does not have any code for scenery objects and exclusions. KBHM_scenery.bgl contains placement data for the objects at the airport. So the airport you see in sim with this addon activated will be a combination of all these bgl files. If there is a stock object bleeding through, then that should have been removed by one of the seven individual exclusion rectangles each in its own bgl file.

Based on the initial postings it seems that the object highlighted here is the one bleeding through

To briefly deal with the data about this object.

• It is a regular library object amenable to exclusion with an exclusion rectangle
• It is a regular stock object. Autogenerated is an unhelpful label - it's not autogen but a stock library object
• OBX24200.bgl is a regular stock objects library which contains placement data for stock objects. They usually match by name the bgl file containing the airport - in this case APX24200.bgl

If this is the object, then it should have an exclusion rectangle (one of the seven) in the file list covering it.

I created an ADE project from the FSX Stock KBHM and then imported the seven exclusion rectangle files. It is not entirely clear whether any of these exclude the building in question

When selected the building shows a small red spot which is the reference point of the object. This has to be covered by an exclusion rectangle to be excluded. It appears it is not. This is BHMEXC2 which appears to be the closest to the target library objects.

I am stopping here until I get confirmation that I am looking at the correct building. The next step would be to build an ADE project from the airport bgl (AF2) and then see how it behaves when compiled

 

[scruffyduck]

I made a test to ensure that an exclusion rectangle can exclude the target library object. I did this by

• Creating an ADE project using the Stock option
• Deleting the target library object in the ADE display (using the automatically created exclusion rectangle)
• Compiled the project and placed it in an active scenery folder
• Ran FSX and opened the airport. A review found that the target library object was no longer visible.

This satisfies me that an exclusion rectangle will exclude the target library object

 

[scruffyduck]

Final Fix

1. Created a new project in ADE based on AF2_KBHM
2. Imported BHMEXC2.bgl into the project
3. Extended the Exclusion Rectangle BHMEXC2 to cover the area and location of the target library object
4. Saved the project and compiled giving it the name beginning AF2_KBHM so that loading order not changed
5. Renamed AF2_KBHM.Bgl by changing the extension. Did the same for the file BHMEXC2.bgl (this exclusion is now in the project)
6. Placed the revised file structure in an active scenery folder in Sim
7. Ran the sim and opened the airport - target building is no longer appears visible

 

[kmanning]

Ken

I started again from scratch using the zipped package you posted. By scratch I mean that I am parking all the conversation up to this point

This airport is made up of a number of bgl files. One contains the airport, others contain exclusion and yet others contain model data. The AF2 bgl file contains the basic airport and being created by AFCAD2 (very old) does not have any code for scenery objects and exclusions. KBHM_scenery.bgl contains placement data for the objects at the airport. So the airport you see in sim with this addon activated will be a combination of all these bgl files. If there is a stock object bleeding through, then that should have been removed by one of the seven individual exclusion rectangles each in its own bgl file.

Based on the initial postings it seems that the object highlighted here is the one bleeding through

View attachment 84764

To briefly deal with the data about this object.

• It is a regular library object amenable to exclusion with an exclusion rectangle
• It is a regular stock object. Autogenerated is an unhelpful label - it's not autogen but a stock library object
• OBX24200.bgl is a regular stock objects library which contains placement data for stock objects. They usually match by name the bgl file containing the airport - in this case APX24200.bgl

If this is the object, then it should have an exclusion rectangle (one of the seven) in the file list covering it.

I created an ADE project from the FSX Stock KBHM and then imported the seven exclusion rectangle files. It is not entirely clear whether any of these exclude the building in question

View attachment 84765

When selected the building shows a small red spot which is the reference point of the object. This has to be covered by an exclusion rectangle to be excluded. It appears it is not. This is BHMEXC2 which appears to be the closest to the target library objects.

View attachment 84767

I am stopping here until I get confirmation that I am looking at the correct building. The next step would be to build an ADE project from the airport bgl (AF2) and then see how it behaves when compiled

Hi Jon,

Yes, the building you have highlighted is the correct one. That's the one that was bleeding through, but the other objects do no bleed through.

Ken.

 

[scruffyduck]

OK - then my input is done, and I show how to exclude the object

 

[kmanning]

I made a test to ensure that an exclusion rectangle can exclude the target library object. I did this by

• Creating an ADE project using the Stock option
• Deleting the target library object in the ADE display (using the automatically created exclusion rectangle)
• Compiled the project and placed it in an active scenery folder
• Ran FSX and opened the airport. A review found that the target library object was no longer visible.

This satisfies me that an exclusion rectangle will exclude the target library object

Hi Jon,

First of all, thanks so much for explaining these things. There were some things I didn't even know about, such as importing exclusion bgls, and I see why the freight building was the only one that showed through because the exclusion did not cover it. I have successfully excluded the object using the 3rd party AF2_KBHM.bgl file. But you said you made a test to unsure that an exclusion rectangle can exclude an object by using the stock airport. So, I've tried the test myself. I loaded the stock airport, imported the BHMEXC2.bgl into the stock airport, extended the exclusion rectangle so that it covers at least the red dot or the entire object, saved it and compiled it. I then placed the file in FSX. I followed the steps you listed in the quotes above but all the objects still shows. You said that the objects were no longer visible. Am I doing something wrong here?

Oh, the other thing I wanted to mention is that when one uses a 3rd party airport file and imports an exclude rectangle, the default object does not show and it's hard to determine exactly where the default object was locate.




Ken.

 

[scruffyduck]

But you said you made a test to unsure that an exclusion rectangle can exclude an object by using the stock airport. So, I've tried the test myself. I loaded the stock airport, imported the BHMEXC2.bgl into the stock airport, extended the exclusion rectangle so that it covers at least the red dot or the entire object, saved it and compiled it. I then placed the file in FSX. I followed the steps you listed in the quotes above but all the objects still shows. You said that the objects were no longer visible. Am I doing something wrong here?

You did not do as I did. My test makes no reference to BHMEX22. If you did add that to a clean stock airport project then you probably causes a conflict with the micro exclude. Also I refer to deleting the target object in ADE so the micro exclude becomes active. If the target object is not deleted with the delete key then you will get that displayed in sim after you compiles. Please check my steps again

I made a test to ensure that an exclusion rectangle can exclude the target library object. I did this by

• Creating an ADE project using the Stock option
• Deleting the target library object in the ADE display (using the automatically created exclusion rectangle)
• Compiled the project and placed it in an active scenery folder
• Ran FSX and opened the airport. A review found that the target library object was no longer visible.

 

[kmanning]

You did not do as I did. My test makes no reference to BHMEX22. If you did add that to a clean stock airport project then you probably causes a conflict with the micro exclude. Also I refer to deleting the target object in ADE so the micro exclude becomes active. If the target object is not deleted with the delete key then you will get that displayed in sim after you compiles. Please check my steps again

I made a test to ensure that an exclusion rectangle can exclude the target library object. I did this by

• Creating an ADE project using the Stock option
• Deleting the target library object in the ADE display (using the automatically created exclusion rectangle)
• Compiled the project and placed it in an active scenery folder
• Ran FSX and opened the airport. A review found that the target library object was no longer visible.

Hi Jon,

Maybe I understand now. The part in parentheses is what has got me confused when you said: "(using the automatically created rectangle)," and I thought you were referring to the BHMEXC2.bgl. I was also confused as to how you "Delete" the target object when you said: "Deleting the target library object in the ADE display (using the automatically created exclusion rectangle). I didn't know if you meant that the exclusion rectangle deletes the object or you delete the object by pressing the DELETE KEY on the keyboard. You now say that If the target object is not deleted with the delete key then I will get that displayed in sim after it's compiled. But I did not delete the object using the DELETE KEY because I thought simply drawing the exclusion rectangle over the object would delete it. This is what I've been confused about for the longest as to rather I should use the DELETE KEY or the the Exclusion Rectangle. It was never said to delete the object by using the DELETE KEY but instead (using the automatically created exclusion rectangle) or drawing an exclusion rectangle over the object. As I understand it now, I would delete the object in the stock airport file and the micro exclude, which is not visible, becomes active. So let me make sure I understand how you tested this:

1. Create an ADE project using the Stock Airport file
2. Delete the target object that's bleeding through USING THE DELETE KEY.
3. Compile the airport and place my new project bgl file in the sim.

And one other thing. It's said to place the project in an "active scenery folder." I never used the term "active scenery folder," but does the "active scenery folder" refer to the Scenery that one places in the Scenery library and the Addon Scenery folder in the sim? These are the only scenery locations I know of that one would place project files. Sometimes, I place these files in the Addon Scenery Folder.


Ken.

 

[raymk]

Jon,

please correct me if I am wrong but if I am correct then it might help to explain the situation a bit more clearly.

When ADE opens a 'Stock airport', it automatically places a 'Micro exclude' at every location where a scenery library object has been discovered. As such, ALL of these objects will be EXCLUDED.

BUT the clever thing is that ADE then places a COPY of every scenery library object back into the exact same position - so it appears that nothing has been changed. This is done (perhaps?) to allow the user to delete or move any of the library objects if so wished - this is often the case when dealing with Stock airports. Selecting an object and deleting with the DELETE key removes the COPIED object NOT the original which will not get displayed because of the micro exclude which is still in place. The idea is that you should NOT try to remove the micro excludes as this will create problems.

It has only just occurred to me to ask what happens when you open a 3rd party bgl to make some changes - does ADE add micro excludes where it finds scenery objects or does this only happen when it is a Stock airport that is opened - I presume it does not but thought I'd just check? It only does this for APX.... and OBX.... files?

 

[scruffyduck]

It has only just occurred to me to ask what happens when you open a 3rd party bgl to make some changes - does ADE add micro excludes where it finds scenery objects or does this only happen when it is a Stock airport that is opened

It will not create micro excludes in any case other than loading a stock file. If the original used ADE starting with a stock file to create their work then it may well have the micro excludes. The person editing a third party file would need to check. ADE allows users to load or remove stock data. However they do need to be confident they understand what will happen

1. Create an ADE project using the Stock Airport file
2. Delete the target object that's bleeding through USING THE DELETE KEY.
3. Compile the airport and place my new project bgl file in the sim.

Correct. Also make sure that the original project files are removed from the sim. So if you have the original 3rd party scenery files installed in the sim, get rid of them. This is to be sure that they do not conflict with your stock airport test.

"active scenery folder."

A scenery folder in the sim which appears in the scenery list and has a check mark next to it. Addon Scenery is an example

 

[scruffyduck]

please correct me if I am wrong but if I am correct then it might help to explain the situation a bit more clearly.

When ADE opens a 'Stock airport', it automatically places a 'Micro exclude' at every location where a scenery library object has been discovered. As such, ALL of these objects will be EXCLUDED.

BUT the clever thing is that ADE then places a COPY of every scenery library object back into the exact same position - so it appears that nothing has been changed. This is done (perhaps?) to allow the user to delete or move any of the library objects if so wished - this is often the case when dealing with Stock airports. Selecting an object and deleting with the DELETE key removes the COPIED object NOT the original which will not get displayed because of the micro exclude which is still in place. The idea is that you should NOT try to remove the micro excludes as this will create problems.

Ray - you are essentially correct